2021 Turkish Grand Prix - Istanbul Park, Oct 08 - 10

[Gillian]

Oddly, I don’t think it does.

He did all the signing of the tyre shenanigans associated with pole, no? Surely, it’s counted as a quali pole but doesn’t get credited as starting the race in first place/pole position.

I don’t understand the logic here but I guess I was wrong.

The logic is if you have pole, you start first. He doesn't start first, so no pole. Its stupid though...

On another note, could it not be nice if all the "fans" could be as relaxed as their favourite drivers themselves?

[Artur Craft]

Btw, where is LH starting? 11th or last?

Wouldn´t they change his engine and doesn´t that mean starting from the back of the grid like Leclerc and VER did in Russia and as Sainz is doing here? Honest question, I ´m not insinuating anything, btw

[aral]

Fanboys in full flight yet again ! A number of fanboy posts have been removed.. Please stay on topic.

[Gillian]

Btw, where is LH starting? 11th or last?

Wouldn´t they change his engine and doesn´t that mean starting from the back of the grid like Leclerc and VER did in Russia and as Sainz is doing here? Honest question, I ´m not insinuating anything, btw

11th, only an ICE change.

[AeroDynamic]

I was wondering what lap Bottas will let Max through.

Then I realised it's Bottas, so put £5 on Max leading at the end of lap one.

I know Bottas gave max easy passes before, for whatever reason, but I actually think this time will be different if Max doesn’t beat him off the line.

Bottas wasn’t fighting for a win in Russia, Zandvoort, etc. This time he is on pole and can win in theory. He has nothing to lose, plenty to prove, and everything to fight for.

If max gets past easily I expect it will be because Bottas locks up by mistake like in France, or Verstappen just out races him.

If he has a good drive he might fight hard. We have seen him do it before, albeit sporadically.

We might enjoy a great race up front between Bottas, max, and Charles.

[BlueCheetah66]

Btw, where is LH starting? 11th or last?

Wouldn´t they change his engine and doesn´t that mean starting from the back of the grid like Leclerc and VER did in Russia and as Sainz is doing here? Honest question, I ´m not insinuating anything, btw

11th, only an ICE change.

It will be interesting to see whether they will be able to go the rest of the season without any other changes. If not, its a big move for Hamilton cuz I'd say he still has a chance of winning this race even with the penalty

[saviour stivala]

Btw, where is LH starting? 11th or last?

Wouldn´t they change his engine and doesn´t that mean starting from the back of the grid like Leclerc and VER did in Russia and as Sainz is doing here? Honest question, I ´m not insinuating anything, btw

11th, only an ICE change.

It will be interesting to see whether they will be able to go the rest of the season without any other changes. If not, its a big move for Hamilton cuz I'd say he still has a chance of winning this race even with the penalty

Number 44 changed only the ICE, and that means a 10 place grid penalty.

[search]

Bottas seems to be in quite good shape recently. Unless Hamilton moves up to 2nd, I'd say he has quite a good chance to win tomorrow.

And I don't think any car has passed that right side of the grid this weekend so far, so on paper Verstappen looks more likely to struggle at the start.

[Artur Craft]

Btw, where is LH starting? 11th or last?

Wouldn´t they change his engine and doesn´t that mean starting from the back of the grid like Leclerc and VER did in Russia and as Sainz is doing here? Honest question, I ´m not insinuating anything, btw

11th, only an ICE change.

thanks! I did not know that if one changes only the ICE then that´s 10 places lost. Is this a first? I can only remember people changing the whole PU and starting from the back

As a sidenote, if you are a fan of JPM, be happy because his record will stand as the pole was just 2s faster than Monty´s record. Curiously, that was the first time F1 went to Istambul Park and afterwards it only went "slower" as V10s got banned and today´s cars are too heavy, despite their super PUs

[Gillian]

Btw, where is LH starting? 11th or last?

Wouldn´t they change his engine and doesn´t that mean starting from the back of the grid like Leclerc and VER did in Russia and as Sainz is doing here? Honest question, I ´m not insinuating anything, btw

11th, only an ICE change.

thanks! I did not know that if one changes only the ICE then that´s 10 places lost. Is this a first? I can only remember people changing the whole PU and starting from the back

As a sidenote, if you are a fan of JPM, be happy because his record will stand as the pole was just 2s faster than Monty´s record. Curiously, that was the first time F1 went to Istambul Park and afterwards it only went "slower" as V10s got banned and today´s cars are too heavy, despite their super PUs

ICE has been a 10 place penalty for a long time. Each extra swapped component is another 5 place drop. Usually the entire PU is replaced because it is all tightly coupled. Mercedes is trying a different approach and time will tell if it was a smart move.

[RZS10]

As Gillian wrote ... it's 10 places for the first time any PU element gets changed, afterwards it's 5 places per element, as soon as it's more than 15 places it's end of the grid. 23.3 b)
That means Max could replace any part for just five places later on for example - Lewis doesn't have that 'luxury' since they did not change all the parts, but they could swap in another ICE should the other components be fine.

[zibby43]

Half a tonne of sand involved. Red Bull will suddenly come good for qualifying. Max will win and lead by c.10 points.

I don’t think that’s the case at all. I don’t see the point, and they haven’t had a propensity to hide huge chunks of pace in practice this season.

They’ll improve, undoubtedly. But they were definitely caught out by the grip levels and they’ve had to compensate for the understeer by adding quite a bit of rear wing. Verstappen seemed genuinely disappointed.

Same with Marko. And he usually is pretty happy to crow whenever RBR are ahead lol.

https://twitter.com/vetteleclerc/status ... 09601?s=21

The last time RBR suffered from understeer like this was Hungary.

Mercedes brought a range of options so the car’s downforce levels could be tailored to whatever the grip level turned out to be, but the basic traits of the car are said not to have been substantially different throughout this range. A high-rake car, with inherently a lot more movement of the aerodynamic balancing point, tends to be more sensitive and though both cars were troubled by understeer, the Red Bull was visibly more so.

In-car footage from Max Verstappen shows a rear end which in the slow corners looks simply too powerful for the front. Interestingly, the AlphaTauri of Pierre Gasly looked very similar. Through Turns 4 and 5, for example, they are forced to apply more steering lock as the understeer builds. Then as the front finally fully bites part-way through the turn, there will be an oversteer snap as the fronts have too much lock on for their grip. Both states cost a bleed of lap time.

[Is it just] a case of bringing everything together overnight and putting itself back in play? Or is it a Hungary-like situation where they just cannot get the car balanced around their high-downforce rear wing (which is absolutely needed here)?

[A]s things looked today, Valtteri Bottas looks the heavy favourite and that should worry Verstappen on what should be a very fruitful weekend for his championship hopes.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-hug ... portunity/

You add rear wing to add more understeer actually.
RedBull is running their slippery spoon wing. They would have been expecting less understeer. It seems not make any sense the whole thing, but when you listen to Max, he is right. It is not an aero problem this is something with the tyres.

If the front is too pointy, one of the setup adjustments is not only to remove some FW, but add rear wing to simply balance the car out.

RBR have several variations of the spoon RW, and the one they’re employing this weekend is quite robust with a relatively high AoA in the central section.

Turkey requires more RW, anyway. Especially with how high degradation has been for most this weekend.

[nzjrs]

Crazy to think that after all these years Honda has a more reliable and optimal PU

[Restomaniac]

Btw, where is LH starting? 11th or last?

Wouldn´t they change his engine and doesn´t that mean starting from the back of the grid like Leclerc and VER did in Russia and as Sainz is doing here? Honest question, I ´m not insinuating anything, btw

11th, only an ICE change.

thanks! I did not know that if one changes only the ICE then that´s 10 places lost. Is this a first? I can only remember people changing the whole PU and starting from the back

As a sidenote, if you are a fan of JPM, be happy because his record will stand as the pole was just 2s faster than Monty´s record. Curiously, that was the first time F1 went to Istambul Park and afterwards it only went "slower" as V10s got banned and today´s cars are too heavy, despite their super PUs

Its always been like that.

[Restomaniac]

11th, only an ICE change.

thanks! I did not know that if one changes only the ICE then that´s 10 places lost. Is this a first? I can only remember people changing the whole PU and starting from the back

As a sidenote, if you are a fan of JPM, be happy because his record will stand as the pole was just 2s faster than Monty´s record. Curiously, that was the first time F1 went to Istambul Park and afterwards it only went "slower" as V10s got banned and today´s cars are too heavy, despite their super PUs

ICE has been a 10 place penalty for a long time. Each extra swapped component is another 5 place drop. Usually the entire PU is replaced because it is all tightly coupled. Mercedes is trying a different approach and time will tell if it was a smart move.

The thing is. The way they are describing it it’s a known ICE issue. If that’s the case then it’s obvious they see no issues in the rest of the parts in longevity terms.