2021 Turkish Grand Prix - Istanbul Park, Oct 08 - 10

[Tvetovnato]

Oh well, Mercedes binned Hamilton's podium there. I wonder how consequential that will be come the end of the year?

Most likely crucial. Verstappen won’t finish lower than second in the remaining races if things are somewhat normal. Merc is not operating at a champ winning level this year, which is confirmed again and again.

[cplchanb]

you do realize there was only 7 laps left and he needed to close the gap asap... you saw how long he was stuck behind perez.... there was no choice but to risk it. it really just shows how much better the bridgestone intermediates were compared to these marshmallow tyres...

F1 cars routinely weigh 1000kg in race trim these days. The weight plus the power and downforce means that those Bridgestone tyres of old would simply not last maybe 5 laps. This isn't to say that Bridgestone could not do a better job than Pirelli, but certainly comparing old f1 tyres against current generation and exclaiming the old ones would do better is wrong in every possible parameter

i am much more confident that BS can make a tyre that works and stays in the window much more than pirelli. of course you cant compare side to side, but the tyre worked perfectly for these conditions on the 00s cars. they can stay within 3s of a dry tyre lap after lap, no graining phase required. even with the 11-16 cars pirelli was unable to match those times.

[mzivtins]

DiResta trying his heart out to blame Hamilton for the loss of places. "Bottas showed the true pace of the car on those tyres".

Despite the first 2 stints of the race showing Ham fastest consistently of any driver out there, also no DRS the entire race.

The Bias does make people seem a bit silly

[mzivtins]

i am much more confident that BS can make a tyre that works and stays in the window much more than pirelli. of course you cant compare side to side, but the tyre worked perfectly for these conditions on the 00s cars. they can stay within 3s of a dry tyre lap after lap, no graining phase required. even with the 11-16 cars pirelli was unable to match those times.

I agree, I feel Bridgestone could produce better tyres of all types than Pirelli these days

[Schuttelberg]

That was a completely shambolic race from Mercedes and Hamilton. First of all, they should never have taken a penalty here. How a team with this much pedigree and resources scores such an own goal is beyond me. The penalty needs to be taken a) at a track you cannot beat the Bulls but be comfortably second best team. Hamilton is not Bottas. He will find a way to be on the podium in these races. By doing what they did this weekend is rob Lewis off the win and give Max a further three points to boost. A point lost for FL.

Hamilton and his fans should really stop blaming Mercedes for everything. Had Hamilton boxed when Mercedes asked him to, he would have definitely been 4th and certainly been hounding and harrowing Checo for third.

Mercedes and Hamilton as a team have failed this weekend and Red Bull are clearly slower than Mercedes now. Austin is an even more power hungry circuit and another easy 1-2 is on the cards. Red Bull desperately need an update because Max won't be able to maximise it every weekend and Mercedes and Hamilton won't score more own goals.

[mzivtins]

That was a completely shambolic race from Mercedes and Hamilton. First of all, they should never have taken a penalty here. How a team with this much pedigree and resources scores such an own goal is beyond me. The penalty needs to be taken a) at a track you cannot beat the Bulls but be comfortably second best team. Hamilton is not Bottas. He will find a way to be on the podium in these races. By doing what they did this weekend is rob Lewis off the win and give Max a further three points to boost. A point lost for FL.

Hamilton and his fans should really stop blaming Mercedes for everything. Had Hamilton boxed when Mercedes asked him to, he would have definitely been 4th and certainly been hounding and harrowing Checo for third.

Mercedes and Hamilton as a team have failed this weekend and Red Bull are clearly slower than Mercedes now. Austin is an even more power hungry circuit and another easy 1-2 is on the cards. Red Bull desperately need an update because Max won't be able to maximise it every weekend and Mercedes and Hamilton won't score more own goals.

A couple of things to wonder here.

If an engineering outfit tells you "This engine will not last" Would you ignore that and carry on without taking the new power unit.

If your tyre engineers are cautious about tyres simply running out of tread risking a tyre blowout. What would you do? ignore that?

Finishing in P5 is a good result given both of those points. You can only react to facts, or mitigate risk, you cant predict the future

[Just_a_fan]

Hamilton carefully avoiding blaming the team in the interviews. I guess he's seen the data the team were using, although I think he still thinks he could have made the tyres work to the end.

On to the next race.

[cplchanb]

That was a completely shambolic race from Mercedes and Hamilton. First of all, they should never have taken a penalty here. How a team with this much pedigree and resources scores such an own goal is beyond me. The penalty needs to be taken a) at a track you cannot beat the Bulls but be comfortably second best team. Hamilton is not Bottas. He will find a way to be on the podium in these races. By doing what they did this weekend is rob Lewis off the win and give Max a further three points to boost. A point lost for FL.

Hamilton and his fans should really stop blaming Mercedes for everything. Had Hamilton boxed when Mercedes asked him to, he would have definitely been 4th and certainly been hounding and harrowing Checo for third.

Mercedes and Hamilton as a team have failed this weekend and Red Bull are clearly slower than Mercedes now. Austin is an even more power hungry circuit and another easy 1-2 is on the cards. Red Bull desperately need an update because Max won't be able to maximise it every weekend and Mercedes and Hamilton won't score more own goals.

A couple of things to wonder here.

If an engineering outfit tells you "This engine will not last" Would you ignore that and carry on without taking the new power unit.

If your tyre engineers are cautious about tyres simply running out of tread risking a tyre blowout. What would you do? ignore that?

Finishing in P5 is a good result given both of those points. You can only react to facts, or mitigate risk, you cant predict the future

iirc ocon didnt pit at all..,..he lasted the whole race if that was the case.

[cplchanb]

Hamilton carefully avoiding blaming the team in the interviews. I guess he's seen the data the team were using, although I think he still thinks he could have made the tyres work to the end.

On to the next race.

dont think he saw the data yet but he is professional enough not throw his team under the bus. Im sure there will be fireworks behind closed doors. this was the same for schumi. on bad days he would always play the team game but would erupt back at base.

[mzivtins]

iirc ocon didnt pit at all..,..he lasted the whole race if that was the case.

He did, the pace drop off vs inters coming out of their grain phase was 2+seconds per lap at points, that deficit would have been such a massive risk when paired with the fear of tyre failure.

[cplchanb]

iirc ocon didnt pit at all..,..he lasted the whole race if that was the case.

He did, the pace drop off vs inters coming out of their grain phase was 2+seconds per lap at points, that deficit would have been such a massive risk when paired with the fear of tyre failure.

regardless i guess the tldr is that pirelli cant make a good tyre that can operate in any type of condition consistently...

[jurinius]

That was a completely shambolic race from Mercedes and Hamilton. First of all, they should never have taken a penalty here. How a team with this much pedigree and resources scores such an own goal is beyond me. The penalty needs to be taken a) at a track you cannot beat the Bulls but be comfortably second best team. Hamilton is not Bottas. He will find a way to be on the podium in these races. By doing what they did this weekend is rob Lewis off the win and give Max a further three points to boost. A point lost for FL.

Hamilton and his fans should really stop blaming Mercedes for everything. Had Hamilton boxed when Mercedes asked him to, he would have definitely been 4th and certainly been hounding and harrowing Checo for third.

Mercedes and Hamilton as a team have failed this weekend and Red Bull are clearly slower than Mercedes now. Austin is an even more power hungry circuit and another easy 1-2 is on the cards. Red Bull desperately need an update because Max won't be able to maximise it every weekend and Mercedes and Hamilton won't score more own goals.

That's the main problem, when you let the driver get the control of the decision just trust him til the end. Those hesitations make you loose crucial points, but we can write a book on that.
Funny Toto's answer about Valteri performing sometimes as a top driver, sometimes nowhere

[El Scorchio]

That was a completely shambolic race from Mercedes and Hamilton. First of all, they should never have taken a penalty here. How a team with this much pedigree and resources scores such an own goal is beyond me. The penalty needs to be taken a) at a track you cannot beat the Bulls but be comfortably second best team. Hamilton is not Bottas. He will find a way to be on the podium in these races. By doing what they did this weekend is rob Lewis off the win and give Max a further three points to boost. A point lost for FL.

Hamilton and his fans should really stop blaming Mercedes for everything. Had Hamilton boxed when Mercedes asked him to, he would have definitely been 4th and certainly been hounding and harrowing Checo for third.

Mercedes and Hamilton as a team have failed this weekend and Red Bull are clearly slower than Mercedes now. Austin is an even more power hungry circuit and another easy 1-2 is on the cards. Red Bull desperately need an update because Max won't be able to maximise it every weekend and Mercedes and Hamilton won't score more own goals.

That's the main problem, when you let the driver get the control of the decision just trust him til the end. Those hesitations make you loose crucial points, but we can write a book on that.
Funny Toto's answer about Valteri performing sometimes as a top driver, sometimes nowhere

And that at the end of the day is why they are parting ways. Hamilton and Verstappen perform practically every weekend. It’s what sets them apart from almost all the other drivers and certainly from their teammates.

[ringo]

I think they’ve chucked away a podium here.

No not really. It's the same result for both decisions. If hamilton pits he is behind perez and with all of the top 5 pitted, lecler will just pit after Lewis. So that still put Lewis behind perez behind leclerc behind Max.
Lewis would have to race perez, who's car was just as fast and just as good under braking, and Leclerc would be just as fast as max, and so pereze and lewis had little or no chance of reaching him muchless overtaking.

Lewis only chance of podium was slim given how good perez drove and how good the redbull is under braking. Perez will repeat what he did. Brake late on the apez and keep hamilton out for the upcoming twisty section.


So as it is not as bad as it looks. P-5 was Mercedes maximum result because the simulations cannot predict how had a battle will be. And Lewis battle would have been tough with Perez, then touch again with Charles who have nothing to lose.

Driver of the day for me was Perez. His staunch defense was the key moment in this race. Had Lewis got by he would have finish behind Max, or even have a chance to fight Max.

[Mezger]

After watching this Turkish GP I had an idea about tyres.
Should I throw it in here or another section ?

Don't want it become a tiring tyre talk and have the mods move it on.