2021 Turkish Grand Prix - Istanbul Park, Oct 08 - 10

[Shrieker]

In retrospect, maybe the team was protecting Hamilton from himself there. The tires were dropping off, and who knows what would've happened in the closing laps. The tread was getting thinner and thinner, and could've said, sorry mate, that's it from me on the final lap

[notsofast]

If I were wearing a tin foil hat, I might have thought that RB and AT agreed that Gasly would move right immediately at the start to give Perez room on the inside. Without the 5 second penalty, Hamilton might have finished P6.

[ringo]

That was a completely shambolic race from Mercedes and Hamilton. First of all, they should never have taken a penalty here. How a team with this much pedigree and resources scores such an own goal is beyond me. The penalty needs to be taken a) at a track you cannot beat the Bulls but be comfortably second best team. Hamilton is not Bottas. He will find a way to be on the podium in these races. By doing what they did this weekend is rob Lewis off the win and give Max a further three points to boost. A point lost for FL.

Hamilton and his fans should really stop blaming Mercedes for everything. Had Hamilton boxed when Mercedes asked him to, he would have definitely been 4th and certainly been hounding and harrowing Checo for third.

Mercedes and Hamilton as a team have failed this weekend and Red Bull are clearly slower than Mercedes now. Austin is an even more power hungry circuit and another easy 1-2 is on the cards. Red Bull desperately need an update because Max won't be able to maximise it every weekend and Mercedes and Hamilton won't score more own goals.

A couple of things to wonder here.

If an engineering outfit tells you "This engine will not last" Would you ignore that and carry on without taking the new power unit.

If your tyre engineers are cautious about tyres simply running out of tread risking a tyre blowout. What would you do? ignore that?

Finishing in P5 is a good result given both of those points. You can only react to facts, or mitigate risk, you cant predict the future

iirc ocon didnt pit at all..,..he lasted the whole race if that was the case.

Ocon was losing 4 seconds a lap near the end i hear. If Lewis stayed out he would have been passed by everyone even Gasly.

[NL_Fer]

Hamilton should have pitted at the first chance, OR don’t pit at all.

The way he did it now was the worst option. The new inter dropped after one lap, when the speed came back, the race was over.

[Juzh]

you do realize there was only 7 laps left and he needed to close the gap asap... you saw how long he was stuck behind perez.... there was no choice but to risk it. it really just shows how much better the bridgestone intermediates were compared to these marshmallow tyres...

F1 cars routinely weigh 1000kg in race trim these days. The weight plus the power and downforce means that those Bridgestone tyres of old would simply not last maybe 5 laps. This isn't to say that Bridgestone could not do a better job than Pirelli, but certainly comparing old f1 tyres against current generation and exclaiming the old ones would do better is wrong in every possible parameter

F1 car today is 752 kg, that includes driver. Add 110 kg of maximum fuel and you've got at most 862 kg. I don't know where your 1000 kg comes from.

[mzivtins]

iirc ocon didnt pit at all..,..he lasted the whole race if that was the case.

He did, the pace drop off vs inters coming out of their grain phase was 2+seconds per lap at points, that deficit would have been such a massive risk when paired with the fear of tyre failure.

regardless i guess the tldr is that pirelli cant make a good tyre that can operate in any type of condition consistently...

Great point. I think people should be asking the question "why did these tyres go through a horrible graining phase!?" It surely should not be a 'feature' of the intermediate tyres seeing as they are absolutely the tyre supposed to be designed to bridge the gap between wet and dry.

100% agree

[NL_Fer]

iirc ocon didnt pit at all..,..he lasted the whole race if that was the case.

He did, the pace drop off vs inters coming out of their grain phase was 2+seconds per lap at points, that deficit would have been such a massive risk when paired with the fear of tyre failure.

regardless i guess the tldr is that pirelli cant make a good tyre that can operate in any type of condition consistently...

Nothing wrong with the inter. It was a logical result of the track situation this weekend. It wasn’t raining, just the track which was staying damp.

[mzivtins]

you do realize there was only 7 laps left and he needed to close the gap asap... you saw how long he was stuck behind perez.... there was no choice but to risk it. it really just shows how much better the bridgestone intermediates were compared to these marshmallow tyres...

F1 cars routinely weigh 1000kg in race trim these days. The weight plus the power and downforce means that those Bridgestone tyres of old would simply not last maybe 5 laps. This isn't to say that Bridgestone could not do a better job than Pirelli, but certainly comparing old f1 tyres against current generation and exclaiming the old ones would do better is wrong in every possible parameter

F1 car today is 752 kg, that includes driver. Add 110 kg of maximum fuel and you've got at most 862 kg. I don't know where your 1000 kg comes from.

Driver+Safety equipment+fuel close to 920-950kg? 2022 with bigger wheels we will be knocking on the door of 1000kg.

With the torque demands, weight and aero, the force required on a tyre in modern f1 is unbelievable, only to get worse with 18inch wheels.

[Shrieker]

Isola just said he had a look at Hamilton's tires, and said they were worn down to the construction. He added all of the cars that pitted after 47-48 laps had exposed cores. I think the team made the right choice today. Mclaren made that mistake in China 2007 and it cost them the title.

[ringo]

In retrospect, maybe the team was protecting Hamilton from himself there. The tires were dropping off, and who knows what would've happened in the closing laps. The tread was getting thinner and thinner, and could've said, sorry mate, that's it from me on the final lap

Correct. Ocon lost up to 4 seconds a lap. Lewis would have been a Norris out there. If Lewis did pit when they say, then P-5 would still be the outcome, not P-3 as some people think. Overtaking two just as fast cars with feisty drivers would probably even end in tears.

6 points in it, and Mercedes do have a good chances to win COTA, and maybe Abudahbi and Brasil. It's neck and neck at this stage. Bottas and Perez are even more critical. two mercedes 1-2 can prevent max from being champion.
Likewise with Redbull preventing Lewis.

[torpor]

Can anybody explain, why Perez didn't got a penalty or was forced to give back position to Hamilton after cutting of through the pit lane entrance in round 35?

[BlueCheetah66]

A funny thought I've had is that Mercedes would have been better off if Gasly did not have a penalty. If that was the case, he would have been much closer and they would have pulled Hamilton in earlier to make sure he came out ahead of him. If he stayed out he would've stuck to a no stop and tried to make it to the end

[Shrieker]

Stonking race from Bottas. Who would've thought that he'd put 15 seconds into Max in a wet race. Come on, none of you saw that coming. Especially not the Max fans, come on now

[Juzh]

F1 cars routinely weigh 1000kg in race trim these days. The weight plus the power and downforce means that those Bridgestone tyres of old would simply not last maybe 5 laps. This isn't to say that Bridgestone could not do a better job than Pirelli, but certainly comparing old f1 tyres against current generation and exclaiming the old ones would do better is wrong in every possible parameter

F1 car today is 752 kg, that includes driver. Add 110 kg of maximum fuel and you've got at most 862 kg. I don't know where your 1000 kg comes from.

Driver+Safety equipment+fuel close to 920-950kg? 2022 with bigger wheels we will be knocking on the door of 1000kg.

With the torque demands, weight and aero, the force required on a tyre in modern f1 is unbelievable, only to get worse with 18inch wheels.

Dude as per regs 752 is the minimum weight of an f1 car in 2021 season, and that is the weight majority, if not all cars are.
Add fuel to that, of which maximum permitted allowance is 110 kg, and you get 862 kg. That includes all driver safety, tyres and so on. Next year they will be around 40kg heavier at around 790kg + fuel.

[ringo]

The propaganda that Bottas is no good is to blame. Bottas only looks bad when compared to Lewis.
Max fans will just say the car was good and those 15 seconds should have 40s.

But Bottas did a really good drive, as he does when he is leading, and mad Max looked pretty ordinary I must stay. Max had no answer for Bottas pace. Bottas also made zero mistakes.