2021 Turkish Grand Prix - Istanbul Park, Oct 08 - 10

[DChemTech]

Unless red bull have set up woes throughout the remainder of the season, I think this is Max’s to lose. The weather has really not gone against him.

If the track dried up today, the red bulls would have struggled to finish where they’re were. The under steer would’ve been mitigated by these conditions.

Very impressed with Bottas and Perez today, I expected them both to struggle in those conditions but they drove well!

Red Bull are clearly the best pit wall / crew team these days. As long as their car is close, or even ahead (it’s still unclear which car is ahead to me) I think they have this. I’d be surprised if Mercedes can finish higher than p3 in Mexico and Brazil.

I got the complete opposite impression re: the championship after today.

Merc’s conservative call with Hamilton tells me they think have them pace to win this thing without super risky pit balls.

Bottas’ pace made it look like the old dominant days, too.

Yeah, agree. MB clearly has the overhand right now, and if it were not for the poor strategic call, Hamilton would have been much closer (if not ahead). Red Bull will have a very hard time keeping the lead in the coming races.

[214270]

His pace may not have been great but I think HAM would’ve made it to the end.

[Mr.S]

Without 2-3 tenths worth of upgrades, RB is done & Max won win. Mercedes has a dominant car (2-3 tenths is dominant in a tight championship) & the lead the WCC by a solid margin.

Mexico is the only race Max is likely to win. Brazil will be minor RB advantage like Zandvoord but that 1 tenth anything can happen. USA, Saudi, Qatar look fairly easy mercedes wins. Abu Dhabi is a minor Mercedes tilt (1 tenths odd like Mexico is for Max). And Lewis engine is 1 race younger than Max & has more power. RB needs 2 tenths worth of upgrades to take this to the wire otherwise it will be tough.

They haven't brought any upgrades (major) in the 2nd half after the huge discussion & debate about upgrading the car !

[Gillian]

Unless red bull have set up woes throughout the remainder of the season, I think this is Max’s to lose. The weather has really not gone against him.

If the track dried up today, the red bulls would have struggled to finish where they’re were. The under steer would’ve been mitigated by these conditions.

Very impressed with Bottas and Perez today, I expected them both to struggle in those conditions but they drove well!

Red Bull are clearly the best pit wall / crew team these days. As long as their car is close, or even ahead (it’s still unclear which car is ahead to me) I think they have this. I’d be surprised if Mercedes can finish higher than p3 in Mexico and Brazil.

I got the complete opposite impression re: the championship after today.

Merc’s conservative call with Hamilton tells me they think have them pace to win this thing without super risky pit balls.

Bottas’ pace made it look like the old dominant days, too.

Yeah, agree. MB clearly has the overhand right now, and if it were not for the poor strategic call, Hamilton would have been much closer (if not ahead). Red Bull will have a very hard time keeping the lead in the coming races.

Yup that's how I see it too.

[Dee]

Unless red bull have set up woes throughout the remainder of the season, I think this is Max’s to lose. The weather has really not gone against him.

If the track dried up today, the red bulls would have struggled to finish where they’re were. The under steer would’ve been mitigated by these conditions.

Very impressed with Bottas and Perez today, I expected them both to struggle in those conditions but they drove well!

Red Bull are clearly the best pit wall / crew team these days. As long as their car is close, or even ahead (it’s still unclear which car is ahead to me) I think they have this. I’d be surprised if Mercedes can finish higher than p3 in Mexico and Brazil.

I got the complete opposite impression re: the championship after today.

Merc’s conservative call with Hamilton tells me they think have them pace to win this thing without super risky pit calls.

Bottas’ pace made it look like the old dominant days, too.

Thank you for saying this. So many people and Mercedes themselves saying that RB have the faster package when Mercedes have been the faster car since Silverstone. The rain hiding their speed.

Merc have increased their engine power, it's the reason they are faster without wearing the tyres and looking so dominant now

[PlatinumZealot]

MIstake by Mercedes not bringing in Hamilton for new inters. Perez is a second a lap quicker so if Hamilton pits he'll be behind Perez by some distance.

Edit: team called him but Hamilton reckons to stay out. Interesting to see who was right...

This is what I don't like about Mercedes strategist. They themselves are not really sure what is the best choice, and when they aren't they don't try to go off past trends. For me, the trend was that tyre for tyre the Mercedes was chasing the RedBull quite well in the wet, so they should have pitted in behind Perez and explained to Hamilton that "yes, you are quick now but more rain is coming" even if they had to lie to get him to pit!

[NL_Fer]

Ah come on, with that fast tripple left hander, Mercedes was always going to be fast here.

I feel that COTA will be much more of a close match, Mexico and Brasil a slight advantage for Redbull. By Abu Dhabi, Hamilton’s powerunit is toast again.

[sosic2121]

Hamilton carefully avoiding blaming the team in the interviews. I guess he's seen the data the team were using, although I think he still thinks he could have made the tyres work to the end.

On to the next race.

dont think he saw the data yet but he is professional enough not throw his team under the bus. Im sure there will be fireworks behind closed doors. this was the same for schumi. on bad days he would always play the team game but would erupt back at base.

You compare Hamilton to Schumacher as a team player!?

Schumacher was on another level.

[El Scorchio]

Ah, I see we are back to the same old people trotting out the tired ‘dominant car’ cliche whenever the Mercedes is faster during a race weekend.

By that definition both cars have been ‘dominant’ at various points in the season, it’s just that conveniently it’s never applied the other way round by those so eager to try and push this narrative in a single direction.

I don’t think either car has been dominant all season. I think RBR were quicker- markedly in some races- until Silverstone (and actually had the closest thing to a ‘dominant’ car in Austria.) Since Silverstone Mercedes has been quicker but somewhat hampered/nullified by the weather and some poor strategy calls so not able to take advantage of it.

[Dee]

Ah, I see we are back to the same old people trotting out the tired ‘dominant car’ cliche whenever the Mercedes is faster during a race weekend.

By that definition both cars have been ‘dominant’ at various points in the season, it’s just that conveniently it’s never applied the other way round by those so eager to try and push this narrative in a single direction.

I don’t think either car has been dominant all season. I think RBR were quicker- markedly in some races- until Silverstone (and actually had the closest thing to a ‘dominant’ car in Austria.) Since Silverstone Mercedes has been quicker but somewhat hampered/nullified by the weather and some poor strategy calls so not able to take advantage of it.

I used dominant to describe Mercedes today because Zippy said this win reminded them of Mercedes dominance and saying that, how were they not dominant in this win? Bottas 12 seconds up the road from Max and Hamilton passing cars like he had DRS on. Max was at the bottom of the speed trap today. Leclerc at the top followed by Lewis. I can understand this was a bad setup, the surface affecting the RB car, but this is the 6/7th race where Mercedes have been better and only rain and bad strategy or mistakes have cost them valuable points

[AeroDynamic]

I agree the MCs is obviously ahead when the RB isn’t working well. But when it works well, it hasn’t been behind. Rb are simply struggling to set up the car, that is what max is explaining. Is max saying that the MCs is now the dominant car, and he needs upgrades to fight them? I think the most recent interview he explained the issue is set up, and the season is 50-50. This is not the words from someone who feels like the underdog. It can ebb and flow if the RB and the MCS are equally set up to deliver the maximum performance at these tracks. Most of the recent tracks have been power tracks lending better to MCS too.

Let’s see how COTA goes. If the RB has set up woes again, and not delivering the full potential, then I expect the MCS to be ahead by atleast a couple tenths if not more, but if the RB works well and is set up right, I expect it to be close. Let’s see.

[Dee]

I agree the MCs is obviously ahead when the RB isn’t working well. But when it works well, it hasn’t been behind. Rb are simply struggling to set up the car, that is what max is explaining. Is max saying that the MCs is now the dominant car, and he needs upgrades to fight them? I think the most recent interview he explained the issue is set up, and the season is 50-50. This is not the words from someone who feels like the underdog. It can ebb and flow if the RB and the MCS are equally set up to deliver the maximum performance at these tracks. Most of the tracks have been power tracks lending better to MCS too.

Let’s see how COTA goes. If the RB has set up woes again, and not delivering the full potential, then I expect the MCS to be ahead by atleast a couple tenths if not more, but if the RB works well and is set up right, I expect it to be close. Let’s see.

In his last interview, Max said that they needed more pace. He seems more resigned the last two race wkd's, I think he believes that the WDC is still there but that RB need to bring upgrades for that to happen. Marko himself said today that they need more power from the engine or more work done to the car

[El Scorchio]

Ah, I see we are back to the same old people trotting out the tired ‘dominant car’ cliche whenever the Mercedes is faster during a race weekend.

By that definition both cars have been ‘dominant’ at various points in the season, it’s just that conveniently it’s never applied the other way round by those so eager to try and push this narrative in a single direction.

I don’t think either car has been dominant all season. I think RBR were quicker- markedly in some races- until Silverstone (and actually had the closest thing to a ‘dominant’ car in Austria.) Since Silverstone Mercedes has been quicker but somewhat hampered/nullified by the weather and some poor strategy calls so not able to take advantage of it.

I used dominant to describe Mercedes today because Zippy said this win reminded them of Mercedes dominance and saying that, how were they not dominant in this win? Bottas 12 seconds up the road from Max and Hamilton passing cars like he had DRS on. Max was at the bottom of the speed trap today. Leclerc at the top followed by Lewis. I can understand this was a bad setup, the surface affecting the RB car, but this is the 6/7th race where Mercedes have been better and only rain and bad strategy or mistakes have cost them valuable points

Don’t worry. It wasn’t your post I was responding to. If you classify today as dominant (and fair enough, that’s open to personal interpretation. I’m not sure I’d class either car as ‘dominant’ in any race this season but I’d certainly say ‘better than’ either way- you know what I’m saying. It’s just semantics) then you’ve got to say the Red Bull has also been dominant in races this season.

It’s really just the denial of that fact that some people constantly try to spin which is incredibly disingenuous.

[Gillian]

Ah, I see we are back to the same old people trotting out the tired ‘dominant car’ cliche whenever the Mercedes is faster during a race weekend.

By that definition both cars have been ‘dominant’ at various points in the season, it’s just that conveniently it’s never applied the other way round by those so eager to try and push this narrative in a single direction.

I don’t think either car has been dominant all season. I think RBR were quicker- markedly in some races- until Silverstone (and actually had the closest thing to a ‘dominant’ car in Austria.) Since Silverstone Mercedes has been quicker but somewhat hampered/nullified by the weather and some poor strategy calls so not able to take advantage of it.

I used dominant to describe Mercedes today because Zippy said this win reminded them of Mercedes dominance and saying that, how were they not dominant in this win? Bottas 12 seconds up the road from Max and Hamilton passing cars like he had DRS on. Max was at the bottom of the speed trap today. Leclerc at the top followed by Lewis. I can understand this was a bad setup, the surface affecting the RB car, but this is the 6/7th race where Mercedes have been better and only rain and bad strategy or mistakes have cost them valuable points

Don’t worry. It wasn’t your post I was responding to. If you classify today as dominant (and fair enough, that’s open to personal interpretation. I’m not sure I’d class either car as ‘dominant’ in any race this season but I’d certainly say ‘better than’ either way- you know what I’m saying. It’s just semantics) then you’ve got to say the Red Bull has also been dominant in races this season.

It’s really just the denial of that fact that some people constantly try to spin which is incredibly disingenuous.

Dominant doesn't apply to Red Bull not Mercedes this season. I don't think that's what Zippy meant anyway. But you can't deny Mercedes having a lot more pace this race, right? I would be worried if I was Red Bull/Verstappen.

As for that last part, just ignore it. I mean, you would have to be crazy to say Verstappen has been driving an inferior car every race this season. I know some will claim that, but then you know enough to not take anything that person says seriously...

[Dee]

Ah, I see we are back to the same old people trotting out the tired ‘dominant car’ cliche whenever the Mercedes is faster during a race weekend.

By that definition both cars have been ‘dominant’ at various points in the season, it’s just that conveniently it’s never applied the other way round by those so eager to try and push this narrative in a single direction.

I don’t think either car has been dominant all season. I think RBR were quicker- markedly in some races- until Silverstone (and actually had the closest thing to a ‘dominant’ car in Austria.) Since Silverstone Mercedes has been quicker but somewhat hampered/nullified by the weather and some poor strategy calls so not able to take advantage of it.

I used dominant to describe Mercedes today because Zippy said this win reminded them of Mercedes dominance and saying that, how were they not dominant in this win? Bottas 12 seconds up the road from Max and Hamilton passing cars like he had DRS on. Max was at the bottom of the speed trap today. Leclerc at the top followed by Lewis. I can understand this was a bad setup, the surface affecting the RB car, but this is the 6/7th race where Mercedes have been better and only rain and bad strategy or mistakes have cost them valuable points

Don’t worry. It wasn’t your post I was responding to. If you classify today as dominant (and fair enough, that’s open to personal interpretation. I’m not sure I’d class either car as ‘dominant’ in any race this season but I’d certainly say ‘better than’ either way- you know what I’m saying. It’s just semantics) then you’ve got to say the Red Bull has also been dominant in races this season.

It’s really just the denial of that fact that some people constantly try to spin which is incredibly disingenuous.

I can understand that and can say that RB were dominant in Austria. What is disingenuous is Mercedes, Lewis and Toto constantly calling RB the faster car and package every chance they get since Silverstone as if it's some miracle that Mercedes get now getting poles and winning. That's what I cannot stand and it's coming from the team themselves, not even the fans