2021 United States Grand Prix - Austin, Oct 22 - 24

[dans79]

Same as RB... Must get the set-up right...

Honeselty, I don't think they are getting the set-up wrong despite how several people including some members of the team are trying to spin it.

Simply put, I don't think the car likes the revised rear construction. The set-up they are using is the compromise they must run to get the most out of the new rears without damaging them.

[El Scorchio]

Same as RB... Must get the set-up right...

Honeselty, I don't think they are getting the set-up wrong despite how several people including some members of the team are trying to spin it.

Simply put, I don't think the car likes the revised rear construction. The set-up they are using is the compromise they must run to get the most out of the new rears without damaging them.

You could be right, but then surely we'd hear a lot of dissatisfied noises coming to the media from within the team about the tyre change, wouldn't we? (Unless of course it IS something like that, but they can see it's a necessary evil to avoid more blowouts so there's no point in mentioning it)

[dans79]

(Unless of course it IS something like that, but they can see it's a necessary evil to avoid more blowouts so there's no point in mentioning it)

I'd be inclined to believe this, as you don't want an opponent to know what an actual weakness is.

[Zynerji]

I'm just hoping for a tight q3.

If the top 10 are separated by 0.5s, I'll be a happy man.

[El Scorchio]

(Unless of course it IS something like that, but they can see it's a necessary evil to avoid more blowouts so there's no point in mentioning it)

I'd be inclined to believe this, as you don't want an opponent to know what an actual weakness is.

Very valid. It is quite unlike them not to let their displeasure with something be known very publicly though!

[SiLo]

(Unless of course it IS something like that, but they can see it's a necessary evil to avoid more blowouts so there's no point in mentioning it)

I'd be inclined to believe this, as you don't want an opponent to know what an actual weakness is.

Very valid. It is quite unlike them not to let their displeasure with something be known very publicly though!

Glares in Renault

[Andres125sx]

How do we think the McLaren's will go here? Dark Horse podium contenders?

At first GP with both Ferraris with the upgraded PU, and without penalties, I think McLaren will have a hard time, but as always it will depend on how each of them adapt to the track and conditions.


And who will adapt to this track and conditions better? Not even teams know, too many factors to consider: track layout, track asphalt, temperature, wind, aero setup, tire compounds... and even some combinations between these parameters are a different parameter

F1 is crazy, but that´s one of the reasons we love it

[Zynerji]

How do we think the McLaren's will go here? Dark Horse podium contenders?

At first GP with both Ferraris with the upgraded PU, and without penalties, I think McLaren will have a hard time, but as always it will depend on how each of them adapt to the track and conditions.


And who will adapt to this track and conditions better? Not even teams know, too many factors to consider: track layout, track asphalt, temperature, wind, aero setup, tire compounds... and even some combinations between these parameters are a different parameter

F1 is crazy, but that´s one of the reasons we love it

I don't think McL get enough credit for their performance after changing engines in the same chassis. Big win for their engineering team!

[Stu]

Same as RB... Must get the set-up right...

Honeselty, I don't think they are getting the set-up wrong despite how several people including some members of the team are trying to spin it.

Simply put, I don't think the car likes the revised rear construction. The set-up they are using is the compromise they must run to get the most out of the new rears without damaging them.

I think so too, the behaviour of the tyre is creating a compromise in the set-up (probably damping or inerter oriented) that is clashing with some of the delicate aero balancing at the rear (thus creating the requirement for a compromise at the front). The change of rear tyre caused a slight drop in performance for the Red Bull (visible as it is also affecting Perez) along with a slight improvement for Mercedes. The 0.2-0.3 second gap that was there at the start of the season now fluctuates depending upon whether they can get the whole car balanced. Over a 90 second lap a 0.25% difference is played out as night/day.

[zibby43]

Same as RB... Must get the set-up right...

Honeselty, I don't think they are getting the set-up wrong despite how several people including some members of the team are trying to spin it.

Simply put, I don't think the car likes the revised rear construction. The set-up they are using is the compromise they must run to get the most out of the new rears without damaging them.

I think so too, the behaviour of the tyre is creating a compromise in the set-up (probably damping or inerter oriented) that is clashing with some of the delicate aero balancing at the rear (thus creating the requirement for a compromise at the front). The change of rear tyre caused a slight drop in performance for the Red Bull (visible as it is also affecting Perez) along with a slight improvement for Mercedes. The 0.2-0.3 second gap that was there at the start of the season now fluctuates depending upon whether they can get the whole car balanced. Over a 90 second lap a 0.25% difference is played out as night/day.

I hadn’t seen anyone take a stab at attempting to explain why the change in rear construction would make a difference from a mechanical setup perspective.

Aerodynamically, the change will have had some kind of measurable impact, as rear tire deformation had to have changed slightly, and that rear floor area is so incredibly sensitive to flow changes.

All that being said, I still find it hard to believe the rear construction change is a factor.

Virtually all of the drivers across the various teams have said they’ve noticed zero difference, or haven’t said anything at all.

I’m more inclined to believe that the Silverstone upgrade at Mercedes has proven to be more powerful then anticipated as they’ve understood the car better. I also think the upgrade has widened the setup window. I had speculated that both of these things could happen shortly after Silverstone, and now Mark Hughes seems to think this is a possibility as well.

[dans79]

Honeselty, I don't think they are getting the set-up wrong despite how several people including some members of the team are trying to spin it.

Simply put, I don't think the car likes the revised rear construction. The set-up they are using is the compromise they must run to get the most out of the new rears without damaging them.

I think so too, the behaviour of the tyre is creating a compromise in the set-up (probably damping or inerter oriented) that is clashing with some of the delicate aero balancing at the rear (thus creating the requirement for a compromise at the front). The change of rear tyre caused a slight drop in performance for the Red Bull (visible as it is also affecting Perez) along with a slight improvement for Mercedes. The 0.2-0.3 second gap that was there at the start of the season now fluctuates depending upon whether they can get the whole car balanced. Over a 90 second lap a 0.25% difference is played out as night/day.

I hadn’t seen anyone take a stab at attempting to explain why the change in rear construction would make a difference from a mechanical setup perspective.

Aerodynamically, the change will have had some kind of measurable impact, as rear tire deformation had to have changed slightly, and that rear floor area is so incredibly sensitive to flow changes.

All that being said, I still find it hard to believe the rear construction change is a factor.

Virtually all of the drivers across the various teams have said they’ve noticed zero difference, or haven’t said anything at all.

I’m more inclined to believe that the Silverstone upgrade at Mercedes has proven to be more powerful then anticipated as they’ve understood the car better. I also think the upgrade has widened the setup window. I had speculated that both of these things could happen shortly after Silverstone, and now Mark Hughes seems to think this is a possibility as well.

Pirelli says the the only difference is that the construction is "more robust".
https://press.pirelli.com/2021-british- ... --preview/

Why I think its related to the tires, is that since silverstone pirelli hasn't been jacking up the tire pressures. They have been much closer to last year, and i think in on or two instances it was even 0.5 psi lower than last year.

I think the lower pressures allow Merc to run a stiffer suspension set up, as the tires will do more of the transitional suspension work.

I think the opposite happens to Red Bull, they have to stiffen the suspension because there car is areadly very softly spruing.

Basically, I think lower pressures has put merc closer to their optimum suspension set-up while the lower pressures has pushed Red Bull away from their optimum. That will have a knock-on effect on the aero package, tire wear, and tire warm-up.

[zibby43]

I think so too, the behaviour of the tyre is creating a compromise in the set-up (probably damping or inerter oriented) that is clashing with some of the delicate aero balancing at the rear (thus creating the requirement for a compromise at the front). The change of rear tyre caused a slight drop in performance for the Red Bull (visible as it is also affecting Perez) along with a slight improvement for Mercedes. The 0.2-0.3 second gap that was there at the start of the season now fluctuates depending upon whether they can get the whole car balanced. Over a 90 second lap a 0.25% difference is played out as night/day.

I hadn’t seen anyone take a stab at attempting to explain why the change in rear construction would make a difference from a mechanical setup perspective.

Aerodynamically, the change will have had some kind of measurable impact, as rear tire deformation had to have changed slightly, and that rear floor area is so incredibly sensitive to flow changes.

All that being said, I still find it hard to believe the rear construction change is a factor.

Virtually all of the drivers across the various teams have said they’ve noticed zero difference, or haven’t said anything at all.

I’m more inclined to believe that the Silverstone upgrade at Mercedes has proven to be more powerful then anticipated as they’ve understood the car better. I also think the upgrade has widened the setup window. I had speculated that both of these things could happen shortly after Silverstone, and now Mark Hughes seems to think this is a possibility as well.

Pirelli says the the only difference is that the construction is "more robust".
https://press.pirelli.com/2021-british- ... --preview/

Why I think its related to the tires, is that since silverstone pirelli hasn't been jacking up the tire pressures. They have been much closer to last year, and i think in on or two instances it was even 0.5 psi lower than last year.

I think the lower pressures allow Merc to run a stiffer suspension set up, as the tires will do more of the transitional suspension work.

I think the opposite happens to Red Bull, they have to stiffen the suspension because there car is areadly very softly spruing.

Basically, I think lower pressures has put merc closer to their optimum suspension set-up while the lower pressures has pushed Red Bull away from their optimum. That will have a knock-on effect on the aero package, tire wear, and tire warm-up.

Hmmm - the chatter about balloon tire pressures has certainly seemed to disappear lately . . .

Very good point about the tire pressures. That’s another very important and unique way to frame the introduction of the stiffer construction and what impacts it has had.

Pressures obviously affect both mechanical and aero behavior.

[Andres125sx]

How do we think the McLaren's will go here? Dark Horse podium contenders?

At first GP with both Ferraris with the upgraded PU, and without penalties, I think McLaren will have a hard time, but as always it will depend on how each of them adapt to the track and conditions.


And who will adapt to this track and conditions better? Not even teams know, too many factors to consider: track layout, track asphalt, temperature, wind, aero setup, tire compounds... and even some combinations between these parameters are a different parameter

F1 is crazy, but that´s one of the reasons we love it

I don't think McL get enough credit for their performance after changing engines in the same chassis. Big win for their engineering team!

Agree, I was not trying to put McLaren down, only that the new Ferrari PU looks like a big improvement so McLaren will have a tough fight

[_cerber1]

Will it be a rainy weekend again?

[mclaren111]

How do we think the McLaren's will go here? Dark Horse podium contenders?

I hope they can come back strong after Turkey...

Same as RB... Must get the set-up right...

I'm definitely becoming a Lando fan...

Me too... I'm very glad Mclaren didn't put undue pressure on him in his first couple of seasons...

In return he has rewarded them very well with his year on year improvements...

Hope he gets a top 6 this weekend...