Max Verstappen has won the United States GP after leading as of the first round of pitstops. Lewis Hamilton came close to a proper challenge at the very end of the race but had to settle for second, ahead of Sergio Perez who completed the podium.
Perez was at least 0.2s slower per lap than Max. It makes sense that he let him pass.
Every driver that does not fight Max to the limit (preferably way over it) is a dissapointment for Ringo. Even if they have nothing to gain, or it would be detrimental to them, they still should. Literally every driver that Max overtook he has wrote a post about (sometimes more than one) in this topic.
Again, go and watch the season 3 drive to survive episode for Russia. Not being a team player is one thing, actively helping a competitor from another team is another.
I have no opinion on the matter but let's not start using Drive to Survive for facts checking. That won't end well.
Every driver that does not fight Max to the limit (preferably way over it) is a dissapointment for Ringo. Even if they have nothing to gain, or it would be detrimental to them, they still should. Literally every driver that Max overtook he has wrote a post about (sometimes more than one) in this topic.
Again, go and watch the season 3 drive to survive episode for Russia. Not being a team player is one thing, actively helping a competitor from another team is another.
I have no opinion on the matter but let's not start using Drive to Survive for facts checking. That won't end well.
You don't need to use drive to survive to get the information. It's all out there readily available in copies of the qualifying radio transmissions.
Another point of note was how much Max could dictate his teammate's fate for his own means. Redbull aren't shy about the #1 driver policy at all.
He pretty much asked that Perez race be compromised for his for strategy, then Perez easily stepped aside after Max's pitstop.
Mercedes would be in a stronger position if they were as open with their drivers.
Bottas lack of being a team player has costed the team some good points for LH.
I'm not complaining about redbull, just saying they aren't ashamed to maximize their #1 driver's points at all costs.
no they aren't. Christian Horner has basically confirmed it a few weeks ago.
Also Perez almost never runs the same spec car as Max, he is always behind. He is there strictly to help Max beat Hamilton and Mercedes. Bottas gets an equal chance every year to beat Lewis but he has failed over an over. Some people just refuse to accept the facts.
like you, and even proceed to sell it to others. Why do you thing Bottas has sometimes been deviant. Because of all the fair treatment?
Eddie Irvine always understood what being Michael Schumacher’s teammate entailed and made his own peace with it. The role never sat well with Rubens Barrichello, similar to Bottas he was never happy deferring to Schumacher even when it made complete sense for the team. The Schumacher, Barrichello situation reminds me of Hamilton and Bottas, although Bottas has been treated better than Ferrari treated Barrichello. Bottas lack of consistency and race pace compared to Hamilton have put him in the support driver role rather than some internal Merc conspiracy. If Bottas was really so unhappy with his treatment by Merc he should have quit rather waiting to be removed at a time of Merc’s choosing.
I do wonder how long Perez will remain silently compliant. He’s never struck me as a guy that would be happy as contracted #2. Surely the rosy glow of having a race winning car but deferring to his team mate will wear off at some point.
Again, go and watch the season 3 drive to survive episode for Russia. Not being a team player is one thing, actively helping a competitor from another team is another.
I have no opinion on the matter but let's not start using Drive to Survive for facts checking. That won't end well.
You don't need to use drive to survive to get the information. It's all out there readily available in copies of the qualifying radio transmissions.
Yes you showed that and it's fine. Just don't use drive to survive as a source.
Also Perez almost never runs the same spec car as Max, he is always behind. He is there strictly to help Max beat Hamilton and Mercedes. Bottas gets an equal chance every year to beat Lewis but he has failed over an over. Some people just refuse to accept the facts.
like you, and even proceed to sell it to others. Why do you thing Bottas has sometimes been deviant. Because of all the fair treatment?
Eddie Irvine always understood what being Michael Schumacher’s teammate entailed and made his own peace with it. The role never sat well with Rubens Barrichello, similar to Bottas he was never happy deferring to Schumacher even when it made complete sense for the team. The Schumacher, Barrichello situation reminds me of Hamilton and Bottas, although Bottas has been treated better than Ferrari treated Barrichello. Bottas lack of consistency and race pace compared to Hamilton have put him in the support driver role rather than some internal Merc conspiracy. If Bottas was really so unhappy with his treatment by Merc he should have quit rather waiting to be removed at a time of Merc’s choosing.
I do wonder how long Perez will remain silently compliant. He’s never struck me as a guy that would be happy as contracted #2. Surely the rosy glow of having a race winning car but deferring to his team mate will wear off at some point.
Bottas is much further away from Hamilton’s skill level as Rosberg. From that point of view it is clear he can’t really expect to challenge ham. Having said that, He regularly has been offered up. Sometimes even over the radio (apparently we are to believe this is the ultimate open way and certainly not an ask). For Max and checo we have had one time so far were checo was ahead under his own steam. Imola. That lasted 40 meter. He has done long runs in FP, helped Max out for sure, and hasn’t made life hard on a few occasions but that is the only ask so far. He still has his integrity imho. Bottas does not feel that way (again imho). Yes he can leave. And he has now been asked to do so. Russell will get his chance and imho deservedly so. I expect Russell to be much closer to ham, but not on his level (hopefully for Russell) yet. Certainly for that “rosy” first year he will be the nr2 and it will be a strong block of drivers next year.
I've stopped with DtS after episode 2 or so in season 2. Cant stand it. very soap show. to many liberties with reality.
just watch this then.
Listen to Horner talking about bottas giving Max a tow.
Basically, Bottas couldn't get pole, so he intentionally towed max down the strait to try and ensure Max got second and he got 3rd, as that would hurt Lewis at the start and benefit him. The team, was even on the radio telling him not to tow max, and he did it anyway (all the way down the main strait).
Heh, that's the result of mercedes treatment towards Bottas, it has nothing to do with RB.
I can't remember Barichello ever giving tow to Michael's competitors, but hasn't been treated as bad as Valtteri
Do I really need to mention Ocon and Monaco again?
Perrez has been underperforming all year imo and has finally shown something worth while again after his win months back.
It's not like he's being held back by the team - he wasnt even fast enough to be a good #2 for most of the season.
It's not much different with Bottas simply not being fast enough, only that the team doesnt appreciate BOTs "sacrifices" enough and don’t even cheer for him (their own driver) when he wins. BOT has moved aside and stayed long to block competitors for the longest time, so he had to get fed up at some point.
I have no opinion on the matter but let's not start using Drive to Survive for facts checking. That won't end well.
You don't need to use drive to survive to get the information. It's all out there readily available in copies of the qualifying radio transmissions.
Yes you showed that and it's fine. Just don't use drive to survive as a source.
It's a direct quote.
The only ones faking it on drive to survive are the team principals. They basically run over some situations to sell the sport but the driver quotes are genuine.
My take on this matter is that Bottas has equal status and has acted at times against the best interest of the team. We had a few instances this year of Bottas waving rivals through when he himself has no chance of winning.
I've stopped with DtS after episode 2 or so in season 2. Cant stand it. very soap show. to many liberties with reality.
just watch this then.
Listen to Horner talking about bottas giving Max a tow.
Basically, Bottas couldn't get pole, so he intentionally towed max down the strait to try and ensure Max got second and he got 3rd, as that would hurt Lewis at the start and benefit him. The team, was even on the radio telling him not to tow max, and he did it anyway (all the way down the main strait).
Heh, that's the result of mercedes treatment towards Bottas, it has nothing to do with RB.
I can't remember Barichello ever giving tow to Michael's competitors, but hasn't been treated as bad as Valtteri
Do I really need to mention Ocon and Monaco again?
Bottas never deserved his drive and quite frankly he should have a big slap against the back end of his head by how he defends the team he's ditching against big rival Max. I would be inclined to believe that Bottas has a Max Verstappen bedsheet set by now.
However, as for 'Valtteri handing points to the competition', let's not ignore the fact that he had a race where he essentially became a bowling ball car and took out a bunch, including Verstappen.
BTW I also still maintain Valterri is hugely to blame for the Monza incident with Russell. If we're talking 'poor bottas with the engine penalties' let's not forget that he is just as much to blame for that incident himself.
Either way, yeah - Bottas is not where he should be, being a barrier to Max. That said, Perez really hasn't been there either, so i would say that it's a bit equal.
Also, Max went out in Baku, and that up untill now has been rather the most costly incident - he would have had an even bigger points lead to Hamilton had that tire never given. You could argue then that Hamilton in that circumstance should have had 25 points more, which is fair to say, and it would mean Lewis would have had a 10+ lead on Max right now. Things went sour and he had no points, but the truth remains that situation only ever raised because of Max' crash. If they finished behind the Safety Car instead however, that would have been a different story alltogether. FIA's decision for a 1-lap balls to the walls sprint race in a notoriously unforgiving track was imho not the sportive decisions but it sure as hell resulted in a memorable and spectacular finish.
People also remain complaining about silverstone and yes obviously, Max went off hard and that gave Hamilton 25 points lead. I will remain first and foremost that Max should have left a bit more space, and yeah, Lewis could have also taken it a bit different. To me it was nothing but a classic moment between big rivals, and above all a racing incident, BUT let's not forget and ignore that Lewis WAS faster than Max there, and that if not that specific corner, or perhaps a lap later, Lewis would have passed Max regardless and Lewis would, most definately, have won that race no matter what. Max likely would have been P2 - perhaps even 'worse'. So coulda woulda shoulda that contact not happened, Lewis would have had lead of 7 points (8 with fastest lap), instead of a 25 points lead.
Which ultimately means that we're talking about a theoretical 17 point bigger lead for Max in the standings right now.
But still, that's completely and utterly ignoring that things simply did not went down as they did and every issue that happened could have ended up differently.
I would maintain that both drivers have had their share of 'luck' and 'agony', and the cars are rather 'comparable' in their competitiveness even though in all fairness RBR is helped by the FIA's mindboggling floor cutting decision for 2021 and that to me is a bit unfair.
I would say that right now the biggest flaw that Mercedes has compared to RedBull is their pitstop tactics.
Mercedes could have won Austin thanks to Lewis' driving at the start. But their inability to do a good tactic - 'agressive' resulted in playing it safe and that gave the win to Max. They already played a conservative (and as such hampered) setup due to the bumpyness of the track and this hurt their car design philosophy a lot, so there was no room for more conservative plans. Instead, they went conservative twice. Yes it got them a safe 2nd place, with a chance at the end - but Lewis got track position from the start and that was a chance to make something of.
Again, playing conservative would see them lose P1 in favour of a safe P2 anyway, but agressive tactics would have more than likely maintained that P1, and worst case seen P2.
It was the same where Lewis ended up behind Gasly. They were reading the race completely wrong there too.
This is why essentially, right now, when Lewis needs his team the most, they are letting him down. He needs his teammate more than anytime ever to be a blockage, and his team to plan things perfectly. It's the opposite right now so Lewis is not just fighting Max, he is fighting Max whilst his team is holding him by the legs - whilst Max has not only his team giving him a helping hand and a boost, they also have Alpha Tauri to back him up AND Max is laughing all the way down with Bottas intentionally or unintentionally also giving him a bit of an extra.
Lewis now needs 2 race wins just to make sure they're equal on points and that's going to be a real hard challenge.
Also, it's not at all out of the realm of possibilities that Lewis still will face an engine penalty.
However, all it takes is a DNF for Max and Lewis making the podium to turn things around. Max a DNF, Lewis P3 and they're level. Lewis P1 and he's on a 10 point lead.
Right now, Mercedes needs to step up their team game and Lewis needs to give it all to first and foremost get P1 at qualification, and Bottas P2 or P3, not only at Mexico but even more @ Brazil.
If Lewis makes P1 qually @ Brazil Qually, he will have the sprint race P1 start, needs to make a perfect start, take the full left to avoid getting taken out in a brazen T1 collision frenzy between cars behind him. I'm sure there they can benefit from the suspension 'trick', and stay ahead of the RB. Then get the race win too. If Lewis wins Brazil twice and Max gets P2 twice, that, paired to a fastest lap, can get Lewis to reduce Max' lead by a total of 9 points in 1 weekend.
If he wins Mexico - AND gets a fastest lap point (or let Bottas or Russell avoid Max getting that) he can reduce the gap by 8 points there, and be in a lead of what, 3 points.
Unfortunately though for Lewis - i think both Mex and BRA are better suited for RBR.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
just watch this then.
Listen to Horner talking about bottas giving Max a tow.
Basically, Bottas couldn't get pole, so he intentionally towed max down the strait to try and ensure Max got second and he got 3rd, as that would hurt Lewis at the start and benefit him. The team, was even on the radio telling him not to tow max, and he did it anyway (all the way down the main strait).
Heh, that's the result of mercedes treatment towards Bottas, it has nothing to do with RB.
I can't remember Barichello ever giving tow to Michael's competitors, but hasn't been treated as bad as Valtteri
Do I really need to mention Ocon and Monaco again?
Bottas never deserved his drive and quite frankly he should have a big slap against the back end of his head by how he defends the team he's ditching against big rival Max. I would be inclined to believe that Bottas has a Max Verstappen bedsheet set by now.
However, as for 'Valtteri handing points to the competition', let's not ignore the fact that he had a race where he essentially became a bowling ball car and took out a bunch, including Verstappen.
BTW I also still maintain Valterri is hugely to blame for the Monza incident with Russell. If we're talking 'poor bottas with the engine penalties' let's not forget that he is just as much to blame for that incident himself.
Either way, yeah - Bottas is not where he should be, being a barrier to Max. That said, Perez really hasn't been there either, so i would say that it's a bit equal.
Also, Max went out in Baku, and that up untill now has been rather the most costly incident - he would have had an even bigger points lead to Hamilton had that tire never given. You could argue then that Hamilton in that circumstance should have had 25 points more, which is fair to say, and it would mean Lewis would have had a 10+ lead on Max right now. Things went sour and he had no points, but the truth remains that situation only ever raised because of Max' crash. If they finished behind the Safety Car instead however, that would have been a different story alltogether. FIA's decision for a 1-lap balls to the walls sprint race in a notoriously unforgiving track was imho not the sportive decisions but it sure as hell resulted in a memorable and spectacular finish.
People also remain complaining about silverstone and yes obviously, Max went off hard and that gave Hamilton 25 points lead. I will remain first and foremost that Max should have left a bit more space, and yeah, Lewis could have also taken it a bit different. To me it was nothing but a classic moment between big rivals, and above all a racing incident, BUT let's not forget and ignore that Lewis WAS faster than Max there, and that if not that specific corner, or perhaps a lap later, Lewis would have passed Max regardless and Lewis would, most definately, have won that race no matter what. Max likely would have been P2 - perhaps even 'worse'. So coulda woulda shoulda that contact not happened, Lewis would have had lead of 7 points (8 with fastest lap), instead of a 25 points lead.
Which ultimately means that we're talking about a theoretical 17 point bigger lead for Max in the standings right now.
But still, that's completely and utterly ignoring that things simply did not went down as they did and every issue that happened could have ended up differently.
I would maintain that both drivers have had their share of 'luck' and 'agony', and the cars are rather 'comparable' in their competitiveness even though in all fairness RBR is helped by the FIA's mindboggling floor cutting decision for 2021 and that to me is a bit unfair.
I would say that right now the biggest flaw that Mercedes has compared to RedBull is their pitstop tactics.
Mercedes could have won Austin thanks to Lewis' driving at the start. But their inability to do a good tactic - 'agressive' resulted in playing it safe and that gave the win to Max. They already played a conservative (and as such hampered) setup due to the bumpyness of the track and this hurt their car design philosophy a lot, so there was no room for more conservative plans. Instead, they went conservative twice. Yes it got them a safe 2nd place, with a chance at the end - but Lewis got track position from the start and that was a chance to make something of.
Again, playing conservative would see them lose P1 in favour of a safe P2 anyway, but agressive tactics would have more than likely maintained that P1, and worst case seen P2.
It was the same where Lewis ended up behind Gasly. They were reading the race completely wrong there too.
This is why essentially, right now, when Lewis needs his team the most, they are letting him down. He needs his teammate more than anytime ever to be a blockage, and his team to plan things perfectly. It's the opposite right now so Lewis is not just fighting Max, he is fighting Max whilst his team is holding him by the legs - whilst Max has not only his team giving him a helping hand and a boost, they also have Alpha Tauri to back him up AND Max is laughing all the way down with Bottas intentionally or unintentionally also giving him a bit of an extra.
Lewis now needs 2 race wins just to make sure they're equal on points and that's going to be a real hard challenge.
Also, it's not at all out of the realm of possibilities that Lewis still will face an engine penalty.
However, all it takes is a DNF for Max and Lewis making the podium to turn things around. Max a DNF, Lewis P3 and they're level. Lewis P1 and he's on a 10 point lead.
Right now, Mercedes needs to step up their team game and Lewis needs to give it all to first and foremost get P1 at qualification, and Bottas P2 or P3, not only at Mexico but even more @ Brazil.
If Lewis makes P1 qually @ Brazil Qually, he will have the sprint race P1 start, needs to make a perfect start, take the full left to avoid getting taken out in a brazen T1 collision frenzy between cars behind him. I'm sure there they can benefit from the suspension 'trick', and stay ahead of the RB. Then get the race win too. If Lewis wins Brazil twice and Max gets P2 twice, that, paired to a fastest lap, can get Lewis to reduce Max' lead by a total of 9 points in 1 weekend.
If he wins Mexico - AND gets a fastest lap point (or let Bottas or Russell avoid Max getting that) he can reduce the gap by 8 points there, and be in a lead of what, 3 points.
Unfortunately though for Lewis - i think both Mex and BRA are better suited for RBR.
I never felt Merc had the pace to win in Austin. Hamilton did well at the start but then seemed to be driving the wheels off just to stay ahead. Max by contrast appeared to have no trouble following, very calm on the radio relaying Hamilton’s handling problems and calling team advantageous strategy for Perez. I was surprised the end result was so close and Hamilton managed to take the fight to Max at all, but then that’s what he does. Watching the first stint I expected Max to win by a pit stop distance.
I never felt Merc had the pace to win in Austin. Hamilton did well at the start but then seemed to be driving the wheels off just to stay ahead. Max by contrast appeared to have no trouble following, very calm on the radio relaying Hamilton’s handling problems and calling team advantageous strategy for Perez. I was surprised the end result was so close and Hamilton managed to take the fight to Max at all, but then that’s what he does. Watching the first stint I expected Max to win by a pit stop distance.
Exactly. Max was obviously comfortable following Lewis in the first stint where Lewis was driving the wheels off it to stay ahead. Later, it was also obvious that Max was managing his pace to stay ahead of Lewis on older tyres. It was interesting that Max didn't fall for the temptation to go for fastest lap but he knew that preserving the tyres was more important. Indeed, it was basically a reversal of previous seasons where Max would be driving the wheels off it to stay in touch of Hamilton who would be managing the pace.
What was strange was people on here stating that Hamilton was going to win by a large margin when it was obvious that Max was managing his pace at the front.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
agree, very (below) average performance by Max and exquisite driving by Lewis. If just felling short of the mark. And glad we are on topic (US GP) again and back to normal!
It was very clear Max was going to win this and I was an idiot for sitting there on the edge of the seat all race long.
