2021 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, Nov 05 - 07

[Big Tea]

Does demonstrate that the car that goes around a clear ( as in not nose to tail) track quickest is not always the one that goes around quickest in traffic and without a clear 'recharge and cool ' lap

[Tizz]

Loved how Max ruined Bottas’ first FL attempt.

Me too. Never seen that one before...

[Gillian]

Does demonstrate that the car that goes around a clear ( as in not nose to tail) track quickest is not always the one that goes around quickest in traffic and without a clear 'recharge and cool ' lap

I get it, but I would not conclude that from a race driven by Bottas. I'd bet Hamilton would not have gotten stuck behind Riciardo.

[AeroDynamic]

Seeing how Merc just got overtaken by RB as fastest and best car on the grid

Seems premature. This is a high-altitude track with lots of slow corners. It remains to be seen if Red Bull are also easily faster at Silverstone-style tracks with primarily fast corners. It also seems to depend on track temperature.

I think the RB is the best car. Maybe on circuits with big straight line speed advantage being rewarded, they aren’t.

But to my memory this is the picture I have seen:

The RB is the most versatile car in conditions: wet, high altitude, and a cross a broader range of temperature settings.

Seems to curb better

Better aero, has been more profoundly developed across the season then the MCS

Less fussy, more adaptable. More straight forward to set up. Although for a period of time after the summer break (while newey was gone?) they discovered a gremlin with a certain setup with certain corners where the RB was under steering and not reaching the ceiling of its performance. That definitely made it look like the MCS Silverstone upgrade was some kind of silver bullet.

Just seems to be a better all round car across most variables.

Obviously the best car is relative on a given day and track when the cars are in a very close level of ability. The track comes to one car more than another, and so do the conditions, muddling things up and creating a little lottery of sorts. One thing is for sure, since the summer break, the conditions lottery has helped verstappen tremendously at times in the championship fight; Belgium, Russia, Turkey, USA?. If the conditions were dry or in some cases cooler, it would’ve gone against him a lot.

We’ve been given a classic example of that this weekend: when the conditions came to MCS in qualifying, the RB moved out of its best performance window and the MCS suddenly found a bit of performance and it seemed to roughly even the cars up (I think Max was still in the shout for pole on his last attempt) and that was with his car sliding around with the tyres out of their optimal window.

So there’s so many variables. If we really wanted to study these two cars, we’d have to see both cars driving in settings and conditions that support both to be in a good performance window, close to the ceiling of their top performance. At every track. Then you’d have the answer. But to complicate it further you’d have to swap the drivers in the same moments to judge the difference they bring. Even that is muddled because drivers are subjective: some will perform very good cross a range of car driving style requirements, and others will amaze in some but flounder in others.

[Big Tea]

Does demonstrate that the car that goes around a clear ( as in not nose to tail) track quickest is not always the one that goes around quickest in traffic and without a clear 'recharge and cool ' lap

I get it, but I would not conclude that from a race driven by Bottas. I'd bet Hamilton would not have gotten stuck behind Riciardo.

I agree with that, but Hamilton qualified in front of Max and well clear of Checo. In the race, both seemed better racers than his car, and possibly (possibly not) it was only the skill of Hamilton that got even second out of it. Max could probably have stretched his lead to close to half a lap.

[Sieper]

Seeing how Merc just got overtaken by RB as fastest and best car on the grid

Seems premature. This is a high-altitude track with lots of slow corners. It remains to be seen if Red Bull are also easily faster at Silverstone-style tracks with primarily fast corners. It also seems to depend on track temperature.

I think the RB is the best car. Maybe on circuits with big straight line speed advantage being rewarded, they aren’t.

But to my memory this is the picture I have seen:

The RB is the most versatile car in conditions: wet, high altitude, and a cross a broader range of temperature settings.

Seems to curb better

Better aero, has been more profoundly developed across the season then the MCS

Just seems to be a better all round car across most variables.

Obviously the best car is relative on a given day and track when the cars are in a very close level of ability. The track comes to one car more than another, and so do the conditions, muddling things up and creating a little lottery of sorts. One thing is for sure, since the summer break, the conditions lottery has helped verstappen tremendously at times in the championship fight; Belgium, Russia, Turkey, USA?. If the conditions were dry or in some cases cooler, it would’ve gone against him a lot.

We’ve been given a classic example of that this weekend: when the conditions came to MCS in qualifying, the RB moved out of its best performance window and the MCS suddenly found a bit of performance and it seemed to roughly even the cars up (I think Max was still in the shout for pole on his last attempt) and that was with his car sliding around with the tyres out of their optimal window.

So there’s so many variables. If we really wanted to study these two cars, we’d have to see both cars driving in settings and conditions that support both to be in a good performance window, close to the ceiling of their top performance. At every track. Then you’d have the answer. But to complicate it further you’d have to swap the drivers in the same moments to judge the difference they bring. Even that is muddled because drivers are subjective: some will perform very good cross a range of car driving style requirements, and others will amaze in some but flounder in others.

In the (brief) Ziggo NL post race interview with Max he also said that indeed in qualy, with the reds, they couldn’t get them exactly in the window. Max said this is always exceptionally difficult to achieve here.

[Gillian]

Does demonstrate that the car that goes around a clear ( as in not nose to tail) track quickest is not always the one that goes around quickest in traffic and without a clear 'recharge and cool ' lap

I get it, but I would not conclude that from a race driven by Bottas. I'd bet Hamilton would not have gotten stuck behind Riciardo.

I agree with that, but Hamilton qualified in front of Max and well clear of Checo. In the race, both seemed better racers than his car, and possibly (possibly not) it was only the skill of Hamilton that got even second out of it. Max could probably have stretched his lead to close to half a lap.

I think the straight line advantage was key in keeping P2 for Hamilton. Other that I'm pretty sure Hamilton is faster over a race distance than Perez. Well done by Hamilton for sure, don't see how he could have gotten P1 in this race indeed.

[grubschumi13]

Seeing how Merc just got overtaken by RB as fastest and best car on the grid, I feel RB have developed more than Merc did for the past year. It would be interesting to see how well developed the RB is next season. Could this be an opportunity they’ve focused on more than they’ve expected or will RB have a streak of a few seasons of dominance?

Sounds like an excuse. It has been a tight season. Before today, the last race RBR dominated was Austria. Merc then had Silvertone, Monza, Turkey and Russia. Dutch most of the race they were separated by 2 seconds and Cota was tight again and traditionally a Mercedes track and it was a tight race under 2 seconds at the end.

When Max should win he does. He has also been better at damage limitation as witnessed in Russia, he has also won races and taken 2nd places he had no right to.

[AeroDynamic]

Does demonstrate that the car that goes around a clear ( as in not nose to tail) track quickest is not always the one that goes around quickest in traffic and without a clear 'recharge and cool ' lap

I get it, but I would not conclude that from a race driven by Bottas. I'd bet Hamilton would not have gotten stuck behind Riciardo.

I agree with that, but Hamilton qualified in front of Max and well clear of Checo. In the race, both seemed better racers than his car, and possibly (possibly not) it was only the skill of Hamilton that got even second out of it. Max could probably have stretched his lead to close to half a lap.

I don’t want to discredit Lewis at all, his skill and his level certainly was a pivotal factor in making sure he doesn’t do something he shouldn’t do with his car, and not giving away an opportunity. Like any driver. Outside of that though, he is fortunate to have that straight line advantage because Checo probably wasn’t doing much wrong either, other than not being able to drive to the RB’s style as well as verstappen does, and it’s that as much as the straight line speed, why he was able to hang onto 2nd. He did a good job with the scenario he found himself in, I do think this championship is absolutely RB’s now. They can only lose this due to failures or something going against them decisively like Hungary did.. or, if Max drops the ball in terms of picking and choosing his fights, because 50/50 battles, is still your choice to make (you can yield) and there’s not guarantee it will go your way of you crash with a rival. So, that’s the only way I can see any surprise happening by Abu Dhabi.

[LionKing]

I watched the start from like 5-6 different videos. Max was perfect in braking into the first corner. Max, Bottas and Lewis were all aligned, side by side into the breaking zone and voila Max was a car lengths ahead !

[Mogster]

Does demonstrate that the car that goes around a clear ( as in not nose to tail) track quickest is not always the one that goes around quickest in traffic and without a clear 'recharge and cool ' lap

I get it, but I would not conclude that from a race driven by Bottas. I'd bet Hamilton would not have gotten stuck behind Riciardo.

I agree with that, but Hamilton qualified in front of Max and well clear of Checo. In the race, both seemed better racers than his car, and possibly (possibly not) it was only the skill of Hamilton that got even second out of it. Max could probably have stretched his lead to close to half a lap.

Without the thermal deg considerations Max would have won by a huge margin at both COTA and today. The Red Bull, and Verstappen, just seems easier on their tyres.

[AeroDynamic]

Seeing how Merc just got overtaken by RB as fastest and best car on the grid, I feel RB have developed more than Merc did for the past year. It would be interesting to see how well developed the RB is next season. Could this be an opportunity they’ve focused on more than they’ve expected or will RB have a streak of a few seasons of dominance?

Sounds like an excuse. It has been a tight season. Before today, the last race RBR dominated was Austria. Merc then had Silvertone, Monza, Turkey and Russia. Dutch most of the race they were separated by 2 seconds and Cota was tight again and traditionally a Mercedes track and it was a tight race under 2 seconds at the end.

When Max should win he does. He has also been better at damage limitation as witnessed in Russia, he has also won races and taken 2nd places he had no right to.

Well, both statements are true, the RB is the better car. But also, MCS still could’ve won this championship despite that because they were given an opportunity with that racing incident in Silverstone when it went their way, and max was unlucky with no fault of his own in Hungary. They could’ve denied what was essentially red bulls title this year.

But it’s not just been down to Lewis underperforming on a couple of occasions, MCS has underperformed a couple of times too, both together have made some significant errors. But there’s also no denying that the conditions have really come to max when he was vulnerable. For example you said he did a “better job” at damage limitation, citing Russia? Well, how did he do that? By making it rain? Sometimes situations and conditions happen to give you a get out of jail free card. Lewis got one in Imola. And max got two in Russia and Turkey. From Hamilton’s perspective, he really lucked out with the engine issues this year, he still could’ve walked Turkey but the conditions came to Max’s favour and no DRS was available, and in those conditions, cars arent able to hit their peak ability of pace.

[Big Tea]

I get it, but I would not conclude that from a race driven by Bottas. I'd bet Hamilton would not have gotten stuck behind Riciardo.

I agree with that, but Hamilton qualified in front of Max and well clear of Checo. In the race, both seemed better racers than his car, and possibly (possibly not) it was only the skill of Hamilton that got even second out of it. Max could probably have stretched his lead to close to half a lap.

I don’t want to discredit Lewis at all, his skill and his level certainly was a pivotal factor in making sure he doesn’t do something he shouldn’t do with his car, and not giving away an opportunity. Like any driver. Outside of that though, he is fortunate to have that straight line advantage because probably wasn’t doing much wrong either, other than not being able to drive to the RB’s style as well as verstappen does, and it’s that as much as the straight line speed, why he was able to hang onto 2nd. He did a good job with the scenario he found himself in, I do think this championship is absolutely RB’s now. They can only lose this due to failures or something going against them decisively like Hungary did.. or, if Max drops the ball in terms of picking and choosing his fights, because 50/50 battles, is still your choice to make (you can yield) and there’s not guarantee it will go your way of you crash with a rival. So, that’s the only way I can see any surprise happening by Abu Dhabi.

The stand out feature of Max this year is that he is not making mistakes. He is almost machine like.
Max of last year was likely to go for a 48/52 if it would be advantageous for the other guy if the both DNF, this year he is weighing up everything and not caving to pressure. Even his radio calls are like he is in a business meeting rather than getting his moss off with the team, even when they may deserve it.

Someone somewhere has taken him aside and put a new perspective in his head. Whoever it was (especially if it was himself) is responsible for his success this year. He is Prost like.

[WaikeCU]

Seeing how Merc just got overtaken by RB as fastest and best car on the grid

Seems premature. This is a high-altitude track with lots of slow corners. It remains to be seen if Red Bull are also easily faster at Silverstone-style tracks with primarily fast corners. It also seems to depend on track temperature.

On average, the Red Bull has certainly been slightly ahead over the season, but I'm not sure at a Catalunya or Silverstone type track that the Red Bull is easily faster than the Mercedes.

But you don’t want a car that has such small area to dial in to. That’s what the Merc is. In previous seasons they got away with it, because they still had the pace on the competitors on race day and there was further development of the car. Now this season there’s barely any updates to work with. Thus, it’s even harder to dial in the car.

Once it’s dialled in I might think Merc edging RB, but I can’t see it when the car isn’t performing well on all areas

[AeroDynamic]

I agree with that, but Hamilton qualified in front of Max and well clear of Checo. In the race, both seemed better racers than his car, and possibly (possibly not) it was only the skill of Hamilton that got even second out of it. Max could probably have stretched his lead to close to half a lap.

I don’t want to discredit Lewis at all, his skill and his level certainly was a pivotal factor in making sure he doesn’t do something he shouldn’t do with his car, and not giving away an opportunity. Like any driver. Outside of that though, he is fortunate to have that straight line advantage because probably wasn’t doing much wrong either, other than not being able to drive to the RB’s style as well as verstappen does, and it’s that as much as the straight line speed, why he was able to hang onto 2nd. He did a good job with the scenario he found himself in, I do think this championship is absolutely RB’s now. They can only lose this due to failures or something going against them decisively like Hungary did.. or, if Max drops the ball in terms of picking and choosing his fights, because 50/50 battles, is still your choice to make (you can yield) and there’s not guarantee it will go your way of you crash with a rival. So, that’s the only way I can see any surprise happening by Abu Dhabi.

The stand out feature of Max this year is that he is not making mistakes. He is almost machine like.
Max of last year was likely to go for a 48/52 if it would be advantageous for the other guy if the both DNF, this year he is weighing up everything and not caving to pressure. Even his radio calls are like he is in a business meeting rather than getting his moss off with the team, even when they may deserve it.

Someone somewhere has taken him aside and put a new perspective in his head. Whoever it was (especially if it was himself) is responsible for his success this year. He is Prost like.

He’s certainly taken steps forward but he isn’t the finished article (yet?) I don’t agree with your opinion about him being like Prost at this stage, he still nearly threw away his championship by battling very hard into a corner that he didn’t need to. What you said is a very diplomatic way of saying he doesn’t drive with very poor judgement like he did a couple of years ago.

But otherwise I agree with his driving performance in terms of consistency and working under pressure. He just needs to bring in a little more willingness to see the bigger picture, pick his battles and risks and know when to comrpomise for the grand scheme of things.