2021 Mexican Grand Prix - Autódromo Hermanos Rodríguez, Nov 05 - 07

[basti313]

He could see Lewis on the right though, and he must have known his start was poor.

No. When he looked into the mirror he could definitely not see Ham. Please have a look at the many drivers eye videos, they look over the rear wheel. Ham was quite far away from the field of view.

All he had to do was move to the left, Lewis was covering the right, but Bottas continued to move right leaving half the track available to Max.

Can you see the slip effect for the RedBulls? Perez had to lift strongly. Either both Mercs block right or left. They blocked the inside, which was the natural way to do. You do not give up the inside. In the worst case with Bot moving left, Ver would have been between before Ham can cover it...Ver with slipstream well ahead in the first corner.

I did think Max was going off though, didn’t everyone else?

No. This is why it is so strange that people think giving up the inside line would be a solution. Bottas would have never done this line. Bottas would have just drowned on the outside, most probably with grass under his wheels.
With Ham giving up the inside for Per, we would have had maybe Per-Ham-Ver in this case. Much worse situation.

[Incognito]

So we've now proved that it's impossible for P1 or P2 to lead into the first corner. I'm sure that, without checking, that's been the case at every single Mexican GP. We've also proved that leading cars can't react to the cars behind them moving and that drivers don't have the mental capacity to execute pre-planned moves and strategy.

Phew! With that mountain of well-evidenced proof behind us, we can safely move onto the next race!

Brazil discussion points:-
Hamilton is literally the worst driver and worst human ever.
Verstappen needs the fastest car to win and is the worst human ever.
Bottas is a hero for not following team orders and letting Verstappen overtake. Everyone should be a racer!
Perez is a hero for following team orders and never overtaking Verstappen. No one should be a racer!

Oh, and apparently there's some sort of 'race' thing with some interestingly engineered cars or something? I guess there's a separate forum for that?

[Big Tea]

Something occurred to me while reading these posts after watching Toto being interviewed. I doubt there is anything in it, but being an awkward sod I have to mention it.
What if... Bottas has had it stressed to him that under no circumstance is he to appear to impede or 'take out' Max, as it would damage the perceived integrity of the Merc name?

Possibly Merc have concluded they are not going to win, so best option is to lose with the reputation intact?

As I say, this is waaay outfield, but as Bottas seems confused in his actions, do we know his brief?
Or it could be he is just tee'd off with how he is being used and has nothing to lose

[AeroDynamic]

Something occurred to me while reading these posts after watching Toto being interviewed. I doubt there is anything in it, but being an awkward sod I have to mention it.
What if... Bottas has had it stressed to him that under no circumstance is he to appear to impede or 'take out' Max, as it would damage the perceived integrity of the Merc name?

Possibly Merc have concluded they are not going to win, so best option is to lose with the reputation intact?

As I say, this is waaay outfield, but as Bottas seems confused in his actions, do we know his brief?
Or it could be he is just tee'd off with how he is being used and has nothing to lose

I doubt that. I think it just boils down to him trying to race Lewis and max for the win - for himself - instead of racing for Mercedes. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if he is a bit bitter about his stint in Mercedes, and has grown fed up of being the Mercedes pet. But he has to look at himself, he joined a top team that allow drivers to fight for #1 status. Some teams won’t give you a chance, and will make it a contractual obligation

[Big Tea]

Something occurred to me while reading these posts after watching Toto being interviewed. I doubt there is anything in it, but being an awkward sod I have to mention it.
What if... Bottas has had it stressed to him that under no circumstance is he to appear to impede or 'take out' Max, as it would damage the perceived integrity of the Merc name?

Possibly Merc have concluded they are not going to win, so best option is to lose with the reputation intact?

As I say, this is waaay outfield, but as Bottas seems confused in his actions, do we know his brief?
Or it could be he is just tee'd off with how he is being used and has nothing to lose

I doubt that. I think it just boils down to him trying to race Lewis and max for the win - for himself - instead of racing for Mercedes. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if he is a bit bitter about his stint in Mercedes, and has grown fed up of being the Mercedes pet. But he has to look at himself, he joined a top team that allow drivers to fight for #1 status. Some teams won’t give you a chance, and will make it a contractual obligation

I over stated what I mean there really. Just wondering if he has been warned off and it has made him even more confused as to whet is expected of him. Probably my foil hat slipping again.

[Mogster]

Something occurred to me while reading these posts after watching Toto being interviewed. I doubt there is anything in it, but being an awkward sod I have to mention it.
What if... Bottas has had it stressed to him that under no circumstance is he to appear to impede or 'take out' Max, as it would damage the perceived integrity of the Merc name?

Possibly Merc have concluded they are not going to win, so best option is to lose with the reputation intact?

As I say, this is waaay outfield, but as Bottas seems confused in his actions, do we know his brief?
Or it could be he is just tee'd off with how he is being used and has nothing to lose

I doubt that. I think it just boils down to him trying to race Lewis and max for the win - for himself - instead of racing for Mercedes. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if he is a bit bitter about his stint in Mercedes, and has grown fed up of being the Mercedes pet. But he has to look at himself, he joined a top team that allow drivers to fight for #1 status. Some teams won’t give you a chance, and will make it a contractual obligation

I over stated what I mean there really. Just wondering if he has been warned off and it has made him even more confused as to whet is expected of him. Probably my foil hat slipping again.

It’s well known that the DAG board have a low threshold for actions/ events that tarnish the brand. Even before Sunday I did wonder if a “no more crashing” edict has come down the line. Bottas had nothing to lose (ok nothing beyond personal reputational damage) , Max had everything.

[basti313]

I doubt that. I think it just boils down to him trying to race Lewis and max for the win - for himself - instead of racing for Mercedes. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if he is a bit bitter about his stint in Mercedes, and has grown fed up of being the Mercedes pet. But he has to look at himself, he joined a top team that allow drivers to fight for #1 status. Some teams won’t give you a chance, and will make it a contractual obligation

I over stated what I mean there really. Just wondering if he has been warned off and it has made him even more confused as to whet is expected of him. Probably my foil hat slipping again.

It’s well known that the DAG board have a low threshold for actions/ events that tarnish the brand. Even before Sunday I did wonder if a “no more crashing” edict has come down the line. Bottas had nothing to lose (ok nothing beyond personal reputational damage) , Max had everything.

Yes, Daimler has a very strong compliance. RedBull does the same, they have a clear fair play rule by Mateshitz.
It is remarkable how Torro drivers go out of the way and on the other side Merc drivers go out of the way on blue flags through the full season.
Also Perez left a lot of space to Ham in Turkey. It might be well possible that Torros, Perez and Bottas have a clear "no crashing" rule with Ham and Ver.
Interestingly Russel was besides and Alonso the only driver who cost Perez good time when hunting Ham.

[PlatinumZealot]

Bottas and/or Hamilton would've likely been penalised for any attempts to push Verstappen towards or even off track, given Masi published a document (document #55, Race Director's Note) explicitly reminding drivers that any attempts to hinder drivers by pushing them off the track or through any other "unusual change of direction" would be reported to the stewards.

I know that's probably unpalatable for the Mercedes fans who think a 2019 Ferrari style boxing in would've somehow kept Verstappen from winning this, but one or both Mercedes drivers being penalised likely would've just made the job a lot easier for Red Bull.

This rule doesn't seem to apply for lap one.

[PlatinumZealot]

What’s with Max’s ductaped rear wing in quali? Come race day no ductape was seen on the rear wing.

Not sure what parc fermé are, but somehow the issue got solved.

Teams can replace components with identical spec replacements as needed as long as they have a reason to, and if they notify the FIA about it. Rear wings breaking under load is a safety issue, and in any case RB replaced it with an identical spec.

I am bit surprised they were aloud to run a ductaped rear wing in quali, if there was a safety issue at hand.

Nobody wants a rear wing failure and surely not on this high speed track.

I’m quite a bit surprised how much the gap was between the Merc and RB on performance during the race, but not expected a frontrow lockout of the Mercs in quali. I would have expected the other way around. It’s a very surprising and interesting season nonetheless.

Carbon fibre tape more likely. As if ductape isn't strong enough that tape is not going anywhere!

[falonso81]

So we've now proved that it's impossible for P1 or P2 to lead into the first corner. I'm sure that, without checking, that's been the case at every single Mexican GP. We've also proved that leading cars can't react to the cars behind them moving and that drivers don't have the mental capacity to execute pre-planned moves and strategy.

Phew! With that mountain of well-evidenced proof behind us, we can safely move onto the next race!

Bottas braked early. All he had to do was brake late, forget the apex and just crowd Max to the outside while Lewis got past on the inside and into the lead.

[dans79]

So we've now proved that it's impossible for P1 or P2 to lead into the first corner. I'm sure that, without checking, that's been the case at every single Mexican GP. We've also proved that leading cars can't react to the cars behind them moving and that drivers don't have the mental capacity to execute pre-planned moves and strategy.

Phew! With that mountain of well-evidenced proof behind us, we can safely move onto the next race!

Bottas braked early. All he had to do was brake late, forget the apex and just crowd Max to the outside while Lewis got past on the inside and into the lead.

yep, and regardless of what others say, I don't think Max would have been able to follow closely enough to get a pass done on track. He would have had to try for an undercut.

[NL_Fer]

It must be very stressful already driving, heading into a very tight combo of corners, Verstappen on the left, Hamilton on the right, both fighting for that first corner. I think both his talent and processsing power ran short to get to the ultimate braking point, that is why he brakes to early.

[Edax]

It must be very stressful already driving, heading into a very tight combo of corners, Verstappen on the left, Hamilton on the right, both fighting for that first corner. I think both his talent and processsing power ran short to get to the ultimate braking point, that is why he brakes to early.

I’m not a big fan of Bottas but I think people here are a bit harsh. When Ves moved to the center line I thought he was going to slot in tight behind Ham and follow Ham through the corner. I didn’t think he would risk the outside line like he tried in 2017. But he probably tweaked his move a bit on the playstation.

If Bottas thought the same then it makes sense to stay close to hamilton to cover the inside after Ham had passed and not fan out too wide.

Anyway Mexico is probably the most difficult start of the season. Since it was added in 2015 we have seen Hamilton, vettel, verstappen rosberg and Alonso being unable to clear the corner without leaving some carbon bits behind, so Bottas is in good company.

[zibby43]

Bottas is in tough situations not always very aware of his surroundings or limits. Or do we think he was in Hungary? I really don’t think so. Here he could have been very aggresive on Max, but it didn’t transpire. I do think checo would have taken the inside line, Mexico is easily 3 cars wide on the straight.

Bottass just seems to be getting worse by the day when it comes to wheel to wheel racing.

Imo, what he should have done, was as soon has he realized Lewis was along side, he should have slowly moved to the left to ensure less than a cars with of track was between him and the grass. Then all Lewis needs to do is ensure their is less than a cars with between himself and Bottas. That would have allowed the Mercs to basically block the entire track until well into the braking zone when it widens.

That would have put all the pressure on Max and Checo. Max has to decide if he wants to risk getting on the grass to go around the outside, or get pinched Singapore style if he decides to go between them. Checo has to decide between the marbles and also getting pinched Singapore style.Not to mention needing to worry about getting attacked from behind themselves.

And here is the voice of someone who has never driven an open wheel race car in anger. Do you really think it's that easy, that one has time to think through all the permutations and decide the 'best' solution and then achieve it? Just try it in real life, not on a computer, but in actual wheel to wheel racing in a single seater. It ain't what you think. What a bunch ! I've raced FF1600, FF2000, and Atlantic and the computer armchair drivers advising are pretty amusing to read. You have no idea.....

Lewis Hamilton pretty much suggested Bottas do the exact same as mentioned above. Which is one permutation - use the mirror and close the door. Not that complicated lol.

[Ryar]

Bottass just seems to be getting worse by the day when it comes to wheel to wheel racing.

Imo, what he should have done, was as soon has he realized Lewis was along side, he should have slowly moved to the left to ensure less than a cars with of track was between him and the grass. Then all Lewis needs to do is ensure their is less than a cars with between himself and Bottas. That would have allowed the Mercs to basically block the entire track until well into the braking zone when it widens.

That would have put all the pressure on Max and Checo. Max has to decide if he wants to risk getting on the grass to go around the outside, or get pinched Singapore style if he decides to go between them. Checo has to decide between the marbles and also getting pinched Singapore style.Not to mention needing to worry about getting attacked from behind themselves.

And here is the voice of someone who has never driven an open wheel race car in anger. Do you really think it's that easy, that one has time to think through all the permutations and decide the 'best' solution and then achieve it? Just try it in real life, not on a computer, but in actual wheel to wheel racing in a single seater. It ain't what you think. What a bunch ! I've raced FF1600, FF2000, and Atlantic and the computer armchair drivers advising are pretty amusing to read. You have no idea.....

Lewis Hamilton pretty much suggested Bottas do the exact same as mentioned above. Which is one permutation - use the mirror and close the door. Not that complicated lol.

Which Lewis himself couldn't do in Imola.