2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

[e30ernest]

I checked the onboards of verstappen and Hamilton on the run down to turn 1:

Hamilton starts downshifting right after the 150 metre board.
Verstappen begins downshifting just after the 100 metre board.

I would like to see the telemetry to know when they began breaking but isn’t breaking normally hand in hand with downshifting? It fits the minisectors map and backs what Peter Windsor referenced in his videos, along with what Hamilton was bemoaning of the breaking on his radio.. and again I pose the question: how many tenths is that worth on the straight if the Mercedes is slowing down 50 metres earlier than the red bull?

I don't have an answer to how many tenths that is worth, but if the Mercs are arriving at Turn 1 with a higher speed (they seem to have a straightline advantage at the moment), then it would also explain why they are braking earlier.

[Manoah2u]

I checked the onboards of verstappen and Hamilton on the run down to turn 1:

Hamilton starts downshifting right after the 150 metre board.
Verstappen begins downshifting just after the 100 metre board.

I would like to see the telemetry to know when they began breaking but isn’t breaking normally hand in hand with downshifting? It fits the minisectors map and backs what Peter Windsor referenced in his videos, along with what Hamilton was bemoaning of the breaking on his radio.. and again I pose the question: how many tenths is that worth on the straight if the Mercedes is slowing down 50 metres earlier than the red bull?

I don't have an answer to how many tenths that is worth, but if the Mercs are arriving at Turn 1 with a higher speed (they seem to have a straightline advantage at the moment), then it would also explain why they are braking earlier.

Hamilton was overtaking Bottas before T1, obviously he had a higher topspeed than the Mercs.

If anything, the RB is so planted and has so much more downforce that they can brake later without going straight off and locking up, which completely fits with what Hamilton commented on that despite Perez driving behind him, the wake did not negatevily affect him that Perez could still follow close and impose a threat.

No matter how high Merc's topspeed, if the RB is simply far more advantageous in the corners thanks to their mighty downforce, they can get through the corners better - again, long fitting with how RB's design philosophy works.

Totally offtopic, but this is one of the things why Ricciardo 'more or less' has a lesser effect on the other teams he was driving: his amazing skills on overtaking in an immense outbraking move is possible thanks to the higher grip and room left for braking thanks to the RB cars desing, and neither the Renaults nor the Mclarens have that same room which Ricciardo flourished on. He has by now adapted and perhaps the Mclaren has grown a bit closer to that RedBull design, but it just shows how things can or cannot work.

Because of that, i would argue that if Verstappen would now suddenly step into a Mclaren, Ferrari or even the Mercedes, he'd find it very difficult to adapt (and subsequentially some fanbois would argue Verstappen would delibaretly get held back so the other driver looks better). Also, the car characteristics of the Racing Point were vastly different to that of the RedBull, which obviously is why Perez has been yet unable to unleash his full potential in the RB - though he's doing particularly well, really.

I would argue the current RedBull would see both Ricciardo and Vettel achieve similar results as they had before, not what they have now at their respective teams.

As for Mercedes, i still expect Mercedes to have difficulty in Brazil. The 'desert races' probably will fit the Mercedes better. However, they're forced to deliver in Brazil too, it's gonna be very hard if Verstappen gets P1 in the sprint race, main race and the fastest lap.

Brazil however also can have mayhem, so on the other hand, keeping it safe can also see them have a decent result while for some reason Max finds himself at odds. IF Mercedes still needs to have a new engine for Lewis, then i would expect them to take an engine penalty if Hamilton does not finish P1 @ the sprint race.

[Morteza]

[pb6797]

Interesting that he says Max was on the racing line and that was why Bottas couldn't brake as early. and suggests that Verstappen was alongside too early for Bottas to stay on/move back to the racing line. I guess they have seen more in the data than we could just watching from home.

[PlatinumZealot]

Bottas had few hundred meter to block. See the 2019 start. He simply didn't for some reason. The man himself has not commented on it in fact!

Anyways engine penalty rumours looming for Brazil.

[e30ernest]

Interesting that he says Max was on the racing line and that was why Bottas couldn't brake as early. and suggests that Verstappen was alongside too early for Bottas to stay on/move back to the racing line. I guess they have seen more in the data than we could just watching from home.

I do not think they would admit on a social media post that Bottas did poorly to block Max.

Timo Glock has commented that perhaps it would have been better to announce Valteri's exit later to ensure he stayed motivated. I don't think that is right though (since that could essentially rob him of the Alfa Romeo seat).

Bottas is on Beyond The Grid this week. It's an interesting interview where he comments that he focused too much on getting results for a particular year because he was always under pressure from those single-year contracts. While he thinks one of his years in Williams (2014 IIRC) was his best year in F1, he does think he is a much better driver now than he was, and it was just that the consistency of Lewis was hard to match.

I do get the impression he is focused more on his exit now than he is with helping the Mercs win both titles. It could just be his Finnish nonchalant demeanor but I do sense a bit of resignation that he knew he missed his opportunity at a title attempt.

[RonMexico]

I checked the onboards of verstappen and Hamilton on the run down to turn 1:

Hamilton starts downshifting right after the 150 metre board.
Verstappen begins downshifting just after the 100 metre board.

I would like to see the telemetry to know when they began breaking but isn’t breaking normally hand in hand with downshifting? It fits the minisectors map and backs what Peter Windsor referenced in his videos, along with what Hamilton was bemoaning of the breaking on his radio.. and again I pose the question: how many tenths is that worth on the straight if the Mercedes is slowing down 50 metres earlier than the red bull?

I don't have an answer to how many tenths that is worth, but if the Mercs are arriving at Turn 1 with a higher speed (they seem to have a straightline advantage at the moment), then it would also explain why they are braking earlier.

Hamilton was overtaking Bottas before T1, obviously he had a higher topspeed than the Mercs.

If anything, the RB is so planted and has so much more downforce that they can brake later without going straight off and locking up, which completely fits with what Hamilton commented on that despite Perez driving behind him, the wake did not negatevily affect him that Perez could still follow close and impose a threat.

No matter how high Merc's topspeed, if the RB is simply far more advantageous in the corners thanks to their mighty downforce, they can get through the corners better - again, long fitting with how RB's design philosophy works.

Totally offtopic, but this is one of the things why Ricciardo 'more or less' has a lesser effect on the other teams he was driving: his amazing skills on overtaking in an immense outbraking move is possible thanks to the higher grip and room left for braking thanks to the RB cars desing, and neither the Renaults nor the Mclarens have that same room which Ricciardo flourished on. He has by now adapted and perhaps the Mclaren has grown a bit closer to that RedBull design, but it just shows how things can or cannot work.

Because of that, i would argue that if Verstappen would now suddenly step into a Mclaren, Ferrari or even the Mercedes, he'd find it very difficult to adapt (and subsequentially some fanbois would argue Verstappen would delibaretly get held back so the other driver looks better). Also, the car characteristics of the Racing Point were vastly different to that of the RedBull, which obviously is why Perez has been yet unable to unleash his full potential in the RB - though he's doing particularly well, really.

I would argue the current RedBull would see both Ricciardo and Vettel achieve similar results as they had before, not what they have now at their respective teams.

As for Mercedes, i still expect Mercedes to have difficulty in Brazil. The 'desert races' probably will fit the Mercedes better. However, they're forced to deliver in Brazil too, it's gonna be very hard if Verstappen gets P1 in the sprint race, main race and the fastest lap.

Brazil however also can have mayhem, so on the other hand, keeping it safe can also see them have a decent result while for some reason Max finds himself at odds. IF Mercedes still needs to have a new engine for Lewis, then i would expect them to take an engine penalty if Hamilton does not finish P1 @ the sprint race.

What a tiring comment, imagine how good Hamilton would be if only he got the chance to drive a Red Bull car.
DR was excellent last year in a Renault, SV was outstanding in 2015. The Red Bull is no silver bullet

[ringo]

Bottas admitting to Racefans.net that he could have done a better job against Max.
As said above i think he is very nonchallant. Lacking passion about his job. Maybe that's very Finnish, i dont know so cannot judge.

But also as i mentioned in the RB thread their car is very strong on traction and braking; typical newey designed machine, but the neo RB fans dont agree. But confirmed by Andrew Shovlin. I think any of us could see the car has very good braking and stability. It's what Perez uses a lot. Max's style its harder to see but when needed he will brake very late and transition rapidly to swooping in and the car will stay planted.
Mecedes need to be a bit more swash buckling in the next few races. I think the engine penalty is good if Max has a poor qualifying and Lewis puts it on pole. When they get the new engine they can turn it up to 12. They need to win the races on brute Horsepower like what Ferrari was doing in 2018? was it. Because they cannot compete with RB on traction, stability or braking.
It does also amaze me how Max's engines are pretty much well managed. No concerns whatsover. Great job by the team and Honda.
Lewis also need to bring out the AbuDhabi 2016 LH. The agressor and shark feeder. lol

[selvam_e2002]

don't worry, Mercedes will runaway again in 2022 to 2026 again with 1 second margin with rivals.

[atanatizante]

One question is still bothering me after so many days with lots of info gathering ... these are the facts:

- In FP2: 42-39 C; PER & VER did 19 & 20 laps, MERC drivers no tests
- In 46-45 C; PER & VER did 3 laps, BOT 5 laps and HAM 6 laps (2 stints of 3 laps)
- Race: at the beginning of the race 49 C ...

It is worth saying that James Vowles said at the post-race debrief that they spared the M tyre in order to have them fresher at the race but half mouth admitting this is the designated tyre it was a wrong decision not to test it in free practice and just best their data on interpolations and race simulations from the soft and hard tyres ...

The question that bothers me and I still don`t figure out yet is why in Q2 they hit the sweet spot of the medium tyres and in the race they didn`t? Is that only 4 to 5 degrees Celsius be the reason they suddenly went off the tyres temperature operation window?

So could we take the conclusion that they have a very small operation window when track temperatures are high (compared to RB, when btw. in qualy they lost the front row due to driver errors and not hitting the sweet spot on medium tyres) and they are running these compositions of tyres? If that`s the case then bearing in mind that at least the next 3 races will be held in hot temperatures the prospects are not very optimistic, isn`t it?

[atanatizante]

Sam Collins said on Formula 1`s YouTube channel in the weekend warm-up show that Merc is working the PU behind closed doors and presumably HAM is likely to change the ICE here at Brasil and take 5 place grid penalty but not in the sprint race:

[atanatizante]

Is someone with the same opinion that at the Mexico race they just gambled on a higher top speed car setup (for having nothing to lose, bearing in mind their gap to the third team in lap time pace), knowing they have no chance to win this race? This strategy could have given them a front row and safe positions in the race, bearing in mind how difficult it is to pass at this circuit ...

[atanatizante]

We all know by now that RB16B has a bigger downforce level than W12, but in Mexico, they were adding more according to Andrew Shovlin: https://www.racefans.net/2021/11/11/wil ... -mercedes/

“One of the advantages they had here was they were able to go up a step on downforce from the rear wing they normally run to that max-downforce wing,” said Shovlin. “But actually for us, that’s the one that we run normally. It’s just their car seems to have more low downforce than us when we’re on identical-size wings and I think that played into their favour.

[ringo]

Mercedes just have the face reality. They never had the most efficient chassis.
Newey designed cars make a good portion of the downforce in the body not in the wings.
In brasil redbull are bringning new brake fairings to manage the tyre temps better.
I dont know what Merc is bringing to suit the temps in Brasil. Maybe they have nothing?
But it will be another nail in the coffin if Redbull's upgrades work.

Of note was Bottas' poles which i think are down to his stronger engine compared to Lewis. It may be in Lewis best interest to take the engine penalty and have that edge in the remaining races. It's all the team can do as an upgrade now; play with engine settings.

[AeroDynamic]

RB and Max had the upper hand this year but there’s no denying Lewis and Mercedes could’ve denied them. But it was a combination of them not being good enough at the races they should’ve been strong and won at, and the conditions not going their way too many times, a rather big disparity to RB in that. Sometimes things just go more your way some seasons. F1 has so many variables, the stars need to align sometimes. Some things are out of your control. If somethings went more Mercedes way after the summer break it could’ve been theirs.