What exactly is R. Brawn's F1 training and his impact on car

[TauToadmiester]

I believe I saw that Ross began as an aero tunnel guy for williams in the 80's, but that is all that I know. I assume he has a degree in engineering, is it aerodynamics or some other discipline or OJT via the teams he worked on prior to Benetton/Ferrari/Honda?

Whereas we know A. Newey is mostly an aero guy and maybe not the best mechanical eng. guy, and not so keen on the mech. side of things.

Did Brawn actually guide the dev. of the car or did he do the high level design of it or exactly what was his part of the Brawn 01 car?

PS: we know he is great at strategy and apparently a good ppl manager.

Thanks!

[Kester]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Brawn

[nudger]

i do think you need to be a little cautious by creating simplistic cause and effect links.
Newey for example. was he a genious who went to mclaren and turned them from a nowhere to doublw world champions in 98? i dont think so. i think it looked that way because the obvious difference was the arrival of one man...but in reality there were a lot of things going on at mclaren in 97 that had given them momentum towards building a great car the following year. the 97 car, no designed by newey was a very good car, but one with weaknesses...most significant was the engine reliability. mercedes got their act together the following year. i would contend that mclaren would more than likey have won the championship in 98 even without newey.
i think exactly the same applies with brawn. he is good, great at his job...with him you are probably more likely to have success than without...but he isnt a magician, or a genious. the reason brawn is so far ahead is because they dedicated 16 months to the development of the car, using two wind tunnels, one of which is 100%...and they did a decent job, without silly mistakes. thats it. no magic.

just my humble oppinion

[Jersey Tom]

Whereas we know A. Newey is mostly an aero guy and maybe not the best mechanical eng. guy, and not so keen on the mech. side of things.

Not that simple.

[Rob W]

I spoke to someone about five years ago who'd worked with Brawn in the 90s and he basically said that Brawn's skill was his rare ability to have an overall view of things and know, better than most, where (and when) to focus efforts and how to coordinate it all into one complete offering (the car and the race-day operations).

As simple as it may sound, this sort of skill is actually extremely rare. Probably much rarer than finding a top aero or engine guy - especially, for example, because it's very hard to look at a group of people's CV/qualifications and decide who is the most intuitive operator. X-factor is hard to see sometimes.

[RacingManiac]

i do think you need to be a little cautious by creating simplistic cause and effect links.
Newey for example. was he a genious who went to mclaren and turned them from a nowhere to doublw world champions in 98? i dont think so. i think it looked that way because the obvious difference was the arrival of one man...but in reality there were a lot of things going on at mclaren in 97 that had given them momentum towards building a great car the following year. the 97 car, no designed by newey was a very good car, but one with weaknesses...most significant was the engine reliability. mercedes got their act together the following year. i would contend that mclaren would more than likey have won the championship in 98 even without newey.
i think exactly the same applies with brawn. he is good, great at his job...with him you are probably more likely to have success than without...but he isnt a magician, or a genious. the reason brawn is so far ahead is because they dedicated 16 months to the development of the car, using two wind tunnels, one of which is 100%...and they did a decent job, without silly mistakes. thats it. no magic.

just my humble oppinion

Not to mention Bridgestone got a lot better and Goodyear stopped tire development...

[xpensive]

As is obvious from that Wikipedia page, Ross Brawn has no engineering degree but has credibly worked himself up from the floor to the role of Technical Director.
In the corporate world however, that position is perhaps an administrative role more than anything else, like making sure you have the right staff for the job and spend resources wisely.

Newey on the other hand, was the hands-on design-engineering manager with Williams and left for McLaren when he was not allowed more overall responibilities, or Patrick Head's job.

As such, it is very difficult to compare the two, try Ross Brawn vs Pat Symonds, or Adrian Newey vs Rory Byrne.

[Jersey Tom]

Not to mention Bridgestone got a lot better and Goodyear stopped tire development...

Eh, and false. Don't get me started. There were a couple blunders on Ferrari that if avoided woulda got them (and GY) the title in '98.

In any event, Brawn probably doesn't do much or any of the hands-on detailed engineering work. He doesn't have to. A successful race organization starts with and needs successful management to be championship level. This extends even down to FSAE!

You can have the most talented engineers around and it does you no good if they're all silo'd and without integration. I'm sure what guys like Brawn bring to the organization is the ability to understand at least some depth of all the areas of the car; to act as a systems engineer and integrate everything and recognize which areas are most critical to develop.

[TauToadmiester]

Thanks for the replies.

I actually was not making any statement of Brawn or Newey just that Newey's history as 'supposedly' a good/great aero man is known, whereas Brawn is not, at least to me, known as an engineer of any sort. The Wiki page helped very much, assuming it is the truth or mostly

It certainly seems as there are quite a few self taught, work their way forward ppl in F1 from 20 yrs ago, but to enter now on the engineering side, you must have those initials after your name from great schools.

Let's hope the Brawn team can muster the ad money and dev. the car this year and keep ahead, add KERS,etc, assuming a good outcome from FIA meeting.

[Hudsonhawk.]

In a nut shell. Seems his training was to overcharge Ferrari for his services, then instead of developing honda's 08 contender, he spent their money on his 09 contender. A frustrated Honda gave up and there was ross pulling $$ from his left shoe to buy what seemed a useless unit.
The guys a genius.
How dumb must honda feel??? LOL

[A_S_V]

Really good thread to understand Ross Brawn's strengths and his abilities that contributed to success of Benetton, Ferrari and now Brawn GP. Comment from someone who has direct/real information is highly appreciated.

[DaveKillens]

The guys a genius.

Absolutely. Brawn was a part of the team that guided Michael Schumacher to a record career. Two titles at Benetton, five at Ferrari. Then after signing on with a very disorganized team, within two years delivering a 1 - 2 finish at the season opener.

I doubt if there are any teams that would not hesitate to open up their checkbooks to sign on this very precious, competent person.

[TauToadmiester]

Brawn also seems to be a genuinely sincere, calm, nice and thoughtful guy, he kept Barichello on rather than Senna (but this may have been in appreciation to RB and a 'known' vs unknown quantity bet as well'.

I suspect, if he is home enough, he would be a very good father for his children to boot! (I think he has kids, correct?)

(At least I would not think he is late night with prostitutes faking Nazi brutality like some arrogant haughty (full of feces) ppl (MM) we know in F1 circles)

Now let's hope that FIA does not mess things too much so we can have some real honest battles on the race track and not just in the court!!

It's great to see F and McL struggling some, and hope to see them and others clawing their way back toward racing for wins!!!! Let's mix it up!!

Let's have a 7 way tie into the last race!! HeHe!!

[alvinkhorfire]

This is exactly the reason why Ferrari needs to rehire Ross Brawn back as the Team Principal. We need the Dream Team of Schumacher, Todt, Brawn and Bryne back in Ferrari. The present Italian crews at Ferrari are somewhat no match for the Dream Team. How many times have you seen the Ferrari bogged down by silly mistakes, wrong race strategy, poor reliabilty last year and also this year? They always claim that The Australian GP is not suited to their cars, but then duirng the era of Schumacher, they almost always won the Australian GP, if I am not mistaken with them using last year car, (like using F2003 GA in 2004 Australian GP). When tricky situations arise, Michael would at least finish with some points. Compared to now, when there is tricky situation, the Ferrari team simply could not respond and finish with no points.

I am a Ferrari fan, but it hurts me so much when I see them lack of pace. If Ross Brawn is still on board, even when their cars is not fastest, they would make the most use of the situation to their advantage, like changing race strategy.

Just my opinion. Plesae correct me if I am wrong.

[Hudsonhawk.]

But Dave....
Everyone is missing the bottom line here. its almost a complete grid reversal....WHY? because those struggling last year gave up and had a years development ahead of everyone else.
They wrote off a year to get ahead the next. Mclaren and ferrari couldnt afford to do that.....
there is no genius really....it's just taking advantage of the situation and a little forward thinking.
New rules...totally new car.....lets see if they could have made the same improvements or leap if the rules didnt change and they had to go for an evolution of their previous lemon.
Just shows how stupid honda were to walk away....and how smart brawn was to con them into selling. no need to complicate a simple situation.