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Agree. It’s going to be magnificent if Honda can do the same. Just goes to show how good the red bull downforce is - in part because of the rake around corners - a Mercedes needs full downforce levels to match it but with some new level of push from the engine to beat it.
What levels of downforce was red bull using at interlagos?
They were using Austria levels of downforce, and they were still faster than Mercedes around the twisty 2nd sector. Likely the same setup will be used for the next few races.
Oh were they? I stand corrected. I can’t remember the sector times in qualifying but I know in the race max was pushing full on sector 2 because the RB makes the competitive lap time through cornering not straights. But cornering takes life out of the tyres and riding straights doesn’t. So this circuit really came to the Mercedes with the straight and the position to manage tyres.
Does anyone know how long the straight is at Losail? It has that straight but the context of how big the track is, how long the straight is, is important to determine if the circuit can go to RB or MCS. I thought it wasn’t that long but I’m not sure.
I think Max can win there, it’s just Jeddah and maybe Abu Dhabi that are the real concerns
The straight is long enough, downforce determines how much speed you carry onto the straight and how deep you can brake into 1. However with DRS and a tow you can probably hit like 335kph, no DRS, full tanks maybe ~308kph.
I hope the sense of urgency is seen at RB headquarters. They need to find an appropriate reply to this devastating showcase of (PU) power. Let's not forget this was again a sprint race weekend in which RB up until now have shown to get a not optimal setup. Hopefully they can find pace somewhere. What occured to me is that with Merc strategy one could install a new ICE every race, then fully send it, and get P1 with that. Let's hope they cannot do this again.
Agree. It’s going to be magnificent if Honda can do the same. Just goes to show how good the red bull downforce is - in part because of the rake around corners - a Mercedes needs full downforce levels to match it but with some new level of push from the engine to beat it.
What levels of downforce was red bull using at interlagos?
They were using Austria levels of downforce, and they were still faster than Mercedes around the twisty 2nd sector. Likely the same setup will be used for the next few races.
No they weren't Mercedes were 0.201 faster than RedBull in the 2nd twisty sector in qualifying. In the race Lewis was in turbulent air in the 3rd stint when the tyres were fresh so you can't get any real data from this. In Qualy its all like for like and the Merc was over 2 tenths quicker than the RedBull
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0
King George has arrived.
New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS5 & PC
Agree. It’s going to be magnificent if Honda can do the same. Just goes to show how good the red bull downforce is - in part because of the rake around corners - a Mercedes needs full downforce levels to match it but with some new level of push from the engine to beat it.
What levels of downforce was red bull using at interlagos?
They were using Austria levels of downforce, and they were still faster than Mercedes around the twisty 2nd sector. Likely the same setup will be used for the next few races.
No they weren't Mercedes were 0.201 faster than RedBull in the 2nd twisty sector in qualifying. In the race Lewis was in turbulent air in the 3rd stint when the tyres were fresh so you can't get any real data from this. In Qualy its all like for like and the Merc was over 2 tenths quicker than the RedBull
I’m guessing Lewis saved his tyres in S1 a bit to spend them in S2?
They were using Austria levels of downforce, and they were still faster than Mercedes around the twisty 2nd sector. Likely the same setup will be used for the next few races.
No they weren't Mercedes were 0.201 faster than RedBull in the 2nd twisty sector in qualifying. In the race Lewis was in turbulent air in the 3rd stint when the tyres were fresh so you can't get any real data from this. In Qualy its all like for like and the Merc was over 2 tenths quicker than the RedBull
I’m guessing Lewis saved his tyres in S1 a bit to spend them in S2?
Well Lewis had purple sectors in all 3 sectors, So I wouldnt say he was saving his tyres.
The biggest gain over Max in qualifying for Lewis was in sector 2.
S1 Lewis best was 0.060 up on Max's best
S2 Lewis best was 0.201 up on Max's best
S3 Lewis best was 0.141 up on Max's best
So to say RedBull were faster in the twisty sector is the opposite of Reality.
Last edited by NathanOlder on 15 Nov 2021, 16:06, edited 1 time in total.
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0
King George has arrived.
New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS5 & PC
Agree. It’s going to be magnificent if Honda can do the same. Just goes to show how good the red bull downforce is - in part because of the rake around corners - a Mercedes needs full downforce levels to match it but with some new level of push from the engine to beat it.
What levels of downforce was red bull using at interlagos?
They were using Austria levels of downforce, and they were still faster than Mercedes around the twisty 2nd sector. Likely the same setup will be used for the next few races.
No they weren't Mercedes were 0.201 faster than RedBull in the 2nd twisty sector in qualifying. In the race Lewis was in turbulent air in the 3rd stint when the tyres were fresh so you can't get any real data from this. In Qualy its all like for like and the Merc was over 2 tenths quicker than the RedBull
The telemetry shows Verstappen could carry more speed in the twisty bits, while Hamilton dominated the traction zones. The point I'm making is the aero compensates for traction since the overall speed of the circuit is higher.
In Hungary Hamilton gained all his time in the final two corners. Those corners are all about being able to put down the power on exit, not so much carrying speed into them.
There's the telemetry for you to see with your own eyes and verify everything I said. Verstappen wins on entry, Hamilton on exit.
In Losail there are fewer low speed corners that place a premium on exit traction and more on downforce and mid speed cornering grip. This leads me to believe that the circuit will fall more into the car's window than Brazil did.
You said RedBull were faster in Sector 2, I was just pointing out you were completely wrong. Mercedes were faster in sector 2. I have used the official timing to point out Mercedes were quicker. Even in the mini sectors , there are 8 segments available in live timing, of the 8 in sector 2, Mercedes were fastest in 5 of the 8. RedBull were fastest in 1 of the 8. Mclaren and Ferrari also fastest in 1 each of the mini sectors.
GoLandoGo
Lewis v2.0
King George has arrived.
New found love for GT racing with Assetto Corsa Competizione on PS5 & PC
No they weren't Mercedes were 0.201 faster than RedBull in the 2nd twisty sector in qualifying. In the race Lewis was in turbulent air in the 3rd stint when the tyres were fresh so you can't get any real data from this. In Qualy its all like for like and the Merc was over 2 tenths quicker than the RedBull
I’m guessing Lewis saved his tyres in S1 a bit to spend them in S2?
Well Lewis had purple sectors in all 3 sectors, So I wouldnt say he was saving his tyres.
The biggest gain over Max in qualifying for Lewis was in sector 2.
S1 Lewis best was 0.060 up on Max's best
S2 Lewis best was 0.201 up on Max's best
S3 Lewis best was 0.141 up on Max's best
So to say RedBull were faster in the twisty sector is the opposite of Reality.
But think about what you’re saying. He can make two tenths on the RB where the tangled section of circuit is. But on sector 1 with less corners, and more straight, he can only make 1 tenth? Surely with the straight line efficiency, if he gave it everything in his tyres on the first corners, he would’ve found more than a tenth in that sector?
Maybe the temperature wasn’t hot enough but my understanding is, on a high deg circuit like Brazil, your tyre temps will go up and give up. But the track has two sectors dominated by straights, so he could afford to spend his tyres in s2?
I admit Mercedes were faster the stopwatch doesn't lie. The telemetry I'm showing you shows a level of detail finer than the one you're using. You can see the time gained and lost on entry and exit. Who is gaining relative to the other and where exactly that is happening. It shows braking, and acceleration traces in color. This telemetry basically tells you who will be fast where because the pattern has repeated itself all season long. With only 3 races remaining and no updates being brought to the cars it no longer matters at this point. Qatar will both prove me right and settle the driver's championship, after that the only thing at stake is the constructors.
I admit Mercedes were faster the stopwatch doesn't lie. The telemetry I'm showing you shows a level of detail finer than the one you're using. You can see the time gained and lost on entry and exit. Who is gaining relative to the other and where exactly that is happening. It shows braking, and acceleration traces in color. This telemetry basically tells you who will be fast where because the pattern has repeated itself all season long. With only 3 races remaining and no updates being brought to the cars it no longer matters at this point. Qatar will both prove me right and settle the driver's championship, after that the only thing at stake is the constructors.
Interesting, the sport and many media outlets should hire you, and I’m not being sarcastic. They have been wrong so often in predicting things and you have been on point. So the forecast is max will win Qatar and win the championship there? Puts to shame some of those people in the sport who can’t figure out something that a fan can
But out of curiosity, has this way of discerning which track will come to the car, ever been wrong so far this season? You knew who had the best car in every circuit since you determined the relative strengths and weaknesses?
By the end of the season it usually gets a bit more predictable, especially to a discerning fan like Godlameroso, but it has been so close this season, with several swings, just based o that I would be hard pressed to make any predictions. Sure glad Godlameroso is making them, and quite good.
Oh were they? I stand corrected. I can’t remember the sector times in qualifying but I know in the race max was pushing full on sector 2 because the RB makes the competitive lap time through cornering not straights. But cornering takes life out of the tyres and riding straights doesn’t. So this circuit really came to the Mercedes with the straight and the position to manage tyres.
sector 1:
Ham - 18.281
Per - 18.367
Bot - 18.492
Lec - 18.613
Ver - 18.643
sector 2:
Per - 36.014
Ver - 36.779
Ham - 36.877
Lec - 37.072
Sai - 37.100
Bot - 37.177
sector 3:
Ham - 16.396
Per - 16.518
Bot - 16.531
Gas - 16.630
Ric - 16.641
Alo - 16.683
Rai - 16.701
Sai - 16.711
Ver - 16.744
Max was only 0.098 faster that Ham in sector 2, and substantially slower than that in sector 2 & 3. If you drop Perez's fastest lap sector times, it didn't look that good for Honda powered cars.
Maybe Max's engine is more degraded than redbull is letting on?
Red Bull didn't get their balance right this weekend, they wanted to protect their rears, ended up with no front.
Goes without saying that's not good for qualifying (not that it mattered with the many penalties Hamilton got)and it didn't work on hard tires which the more front positive Merc could keep safe enough, on mediums it kinda worked a little, the Mercs had a harder time keeping them in window.
But still even on mediums after going through Sergio, Hamilton was matching Max, thanks to an impressive straight line speed.
There is a dedicated race thread for discussing sector times etc.
The sector times are nothing more than reference information to aid in discussing the redbulls tire wear, tire life, engine power, and engine longevity.
There is a dedicated race thread for discussing sector times etc.
The sector times are nothing more than reference information to aid in discussing the redbulls tire wear, tire life, engine power, and engine longevity.
