2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[godlameroso]

The front axle wears more evenly to the rear, so it's less of an issue around Qatar.

[godlameroso]

I admit Mercedes were faster the stopwatch doesn't lie. The telemetry I'm showing you shows a level of detail finer than the one you're using. You can see the time gained and lost on entry and exit. Who is gaining relative to the other and where exactly that is happening. It shows braking, and acceleration traces in color. This telemetry basically tells you who will be fast where because the pattern has repeated itself all season long. With only 3 races remaining and no updates being brought to the cars it no longer matters at this point. Qatar will both prove me right and settle the driver's championship, after that the only thing at stake is the constructors.

Interesting, the sport and many media outlets should hire you, and I’m not being sarcastic. They have been wrong so often in predicting things and you have been on point. So the forecast is max will win Qatar and win the championship there? Puts to shame some of those people in the sport who can’t figure out something that a fan can

But out of curiosity, has this way of discerning which track will come to the car, ever been wrong so far this season? You knew who had the best car in every circuit since you determined the relative strengths and weaknesses?

To finish first, you first have to finish. If Verstappen just has his normal weekend, gets on top of the circuit and the team does their job, they have the car to win in Qatar. If that happens Verstappen can win up with a 22 point lead. If Verstappen finishes 3rd behind both Mercedes and Hamilton gets fastest lap at the final 2 races that's 22 points which would tie them, Verstappen wins on countback. If Verstappen doesn't get the fastest lap then Hamilton can still win.

I saw the signs since winter testing, and the picture simply developed since then, it wasn't until Barcelona that things really started turning in the noggin. Hungary put the nail in the coffin because the final two corners are very similar to the corners in Barcelona. Portimao also was key to solving the puzzle. It's just the nature of the circuits and noticing which axle wears over a long stint.

Mercedes always had an advantage in tracks that put more emphasis on the rear axle. Austria is the outlier, because the rears wear faster in Austria than some other tracks, however rear tire wear doesn't punish you too badly. Because the balance shifts forward which lets you place the car better, this allows you to use less steering lock on exit. So the wear is kind of offset by the better balance in the high speed corners and less mass due to fuel burn off.

[NathanOlder]

Mercedes always had an advantage in tracks that put more emphasis on the rear axle.

Surely

Baku, Monaco, Austria are rear limited, its all about getting the power down on corner exit to make good laptime. RedBull destroyed Mercedes there.

Silverstone, Barcelona, Portimao, Turkey, Spa (when dry), Sao Paulo all front limited, carrying high corner speeds are crucial . Mercedes were on top there.

I would say Mercedes have had more advantage on tracks that put more emphasis on the front axle.

[godlameroso]

Mercedes always had an advantage in tracks that put more emphasis on the rear axle.

Surely

Baku, Monaco, Austria are rear limited, its all about getting the power down on corner exit to make good laptime. RedBull destroyed Mercedes there.

Silverstone, Barcelona, Portimao, Turkey, Spa (when dry), Sao Paulo all front limited, carrying high corner speeds are crucial . Mercedes were on top there.

I would say Mercedes have had more advantage on tracks that put more emphasis on the front axle.

Explain this then? Why does Verstappen keep pulling out a gap in the corner entry and Hamilton on the exit? Wouldn't Hamilton gain on entry and mid corner and in the twisty section if the Mercedes had a stronger front end? Yet we see the exact opposite. From turn 6 until the end of the lap, Verstappen extends his advantage, indicating a stronger ability to carry speed. Don't take my word for it, look at the data, and counter with your own.



Surely if the Mercedes had a better front end it would be ahead in the corners, yet every single time we look at the telemetry, it isn't.

[SmallSoldier]

Mercedes always had an advantage in tracks that put more emphasis on the rear axle.

Surely

Baku, Monaco, Austria are rear limited, its all about getting the power down on corner exit to make good laptime. RedBull destroyed Mercedes there.

Silverstone, Barcelona, Portimao, Turkey, Spa (when dry), Sao Paulo all front limited, carrying high corner speeds are crucial . Mercedes were on top there.

I would say Mercedes have had more advantage on tracks that put more emphasis on the front axle.

Explain this then? Why does Verstappen keep pulling out a gap in the corner entry and Hamilton on the exit? Wouldn't Hamilton gain on entry and mid corner and in the twisty section if the Mercedes had a stronger front end? Yet we see the exact opposite. From turn 6 until the end of the lap, Verstappen extends his advantage, indicating a stronger ability to carry speed. Don't take my word for it, look at the data, and counter with your own.



Surely if the Mercedes had a better front end it would be ahead in the corners, yet every single time we look at the telemetry, it isn't.

Wouldn’t it be better to use the Q3 comparison instead of FP2 (where we all know there are differences in fuel loads, engine output, etc? Q3 comparison seems to show a different picture:

[godlameroso]

No it doesn't Hamilton gains on exit Verstappen on entry. I posted this already.

In any case, the corners on the next track are more in line with Red Bull’s strengths. McLaren will have a decent car, if it is in fact good at high speed corners.

[NathanOlder]

In the Q3 lap, look at turn 8 and 9, Max went much deeper in to turn 8, which comprises his entry in to turn 9, he had to brake deeper in to the corner. Then on the exit he lost 3 tenths in the short run up to turn 10. it was all down to lewis being slower in for a better line. The RedBull had a bit of understeer compared to the Mercedes. So I stick to my original thoughts that the Mercedes had a better front end here. And dont get under braking mixed up with having a better front end in corners. The RedBull may be better under braking, thats something RedBull have always been good at, all those Ricciardo dive bombs show that. But when the car needed to rotate, the Merc was better in Brazil.

[zibby43]

Mark Hughes did a breakdown of which car would have the advantage in Qatar.

He had them pegged as equal. He had Red Bull as the favorite in Brazil.

As a track brand new to F1, there is no previous history to go on. But the Losail track layout, comprising just two slow corners and a variety of medium-fast, with very little time for the tyres to recover in between, suggests that getting the tyres to work in a balanced way might be more difficult than usual. There’s nothing about the layout which suggests an obvious advantage for the high-downforce Red Bull or the low-drag Mercedes. Tyre performance would seem likely to be the overriding differentiator.

Neither car is definitively better than the other on tyre usage. As recently as Austin, the Red Bull was better able to keep its rears from overheating. But Mercedes won Barcelona – which features a similar challenge to what Losail appears to pose – largely through being better on the tyres at the end of the stints.

In Baku, Red Bull were way better on the tyres – but then that was to be expected given their big rear wing choice and the much skinnier one on the Mercedes. In France, Red Bull were faster at the end of the stints, something which Verstappen exploited to the full.

This track layout has all the hallmarks of a classic undercut/overcut contest between the two cars around the pit stops. But obviously with all manner of potential complications.

Verdict: Equal

[e30ernest]

Explain this then? Why does Verstappen keep pulling out a gap in the corner entry and Hamilton on the exit? Wouldn't Hamilton gain on entry and mid corner and in the twisty section if the Mercedes had a stronger front end? Yet we see the exact opposite. From turn 6 until the end of the lap, Verstappen extends his advantage, indicating a stronger ability to carry speed. Don't take my word for it, look at the data, and counter with your own.

The problem with that video (apart from its appalling music) in comparing the two drivers/cars is that it doesn't put into account the different lines they are taking. Lewis could potentially be taking lines that compromise entry (so he's slowing down earlier than Max) to gain better exits. The video only shows braking and acceleration and that could very much differ depending on what line you are taking.

[ringo]

In the Q3 lap, look at turn 8 and 9, Max went much deeper in to turn 8, which comprises his entry in to turn 9, he had to brake deeper in to the corner. Then on the exit he lost 3 tenths in the short run up to turn 10. it was all down to lewis being slower in for a better line. The RedBull had a bit of understeer compared to the Mercedes. So I stick to my original thoughts that the Mercedes had a better front end here. And dont get under braking mixed up with having a better front end in corners. The RedBull may be better under braking, thats something RedBull have always been good at, all those Ricciardo dive bombs show that. But when the car needed to rotate, the Merc was better in Brazil.

I see you and goldo have very good assessments. But it ignores a lot of things like engine driveability, ers and then technique of the drivers. You said it yourself with how they both approached the corners.
I think some of the differences are partly down, to a smaller degree, with driving style. The rest of course characteristics of the cars.
But we can better judge if Bottas and Perez are included in the assessment and not just Max and Lewis.

Saying all that it will be tight. And i think Lewis will be overtaking Max again in a tyre wear showdown. Not so much a dog fight like in Brasil. Mercedes just need to throw on the hard tyres and they can win it. If the track is rear limited Redbull will have the advantage. If the surface is poor then i have no clue.

[max_speed]

I admit Mercedes were faster the stopwatch doesn't lie. The telemetry I'm showing you shows a level of detail finer than the one you're using. You can see the time gained and lost on entry and exit. Who is gaining relative to the other and where exactly that is happening. It shows braking, and acceleration traces in color. This telemetry basically tells you who will be fast where because the pattern has repeated itself all season long. With only 3 races remaining and no updates being brought to the cars it no longer matters at this point. Qatar will both prove me right and settle the driver's championship, after that the only thing at stake is the constructors.

You and your info has been my source of strength for long time. Hope Redbull can win Qatar with 1-2. Perez seems to have warmed up. this should seal the deal.

[AeroDynamic]

Question: should red bull / Honda take a risk on their engine with either a fresh one, or a new one with a higher power mapping like the mercedes? I mean max could just win one more without this risk. But it’s tough one to call. When you’re in the lead in pts, like on the race track, risky decisions are harder to take.

Honda could try to do what MCS are doing but that sort of high power / party mode is an unproven area of reliability for them, an area they didn’t quite match in the past. The penalt would potentially surrender an easy win to MCS and it comes with the risk of the engine not liking it and failing. I don’t know what hand Honda has got, but MCS is pulling their card right now with these engine shenanigans. The rules need to be rewrote: a new engine should incur the same penalty as the first one.

[bonjon1979]

Question: should red bull / Honda take a risk on their engine with either a fresh one, or a new one with a higher power mapping like the mercedes? I mean max could just win one more without this risk. But it’s tough one to call. When you’re in the lead in pts, like on the race track, risky decisions are harder to take.

Honda could try to do what MCS are doing but that sort of high power / party mode is an unproven area of reliability for them, an area they didn’t quite match in the past. The penalt would potentially surrender an easy win to MCS and it comes with the risk of the engine not liking it and failing. I don’t know what hand Honda has got, but MCS is pulling their card right now with these engine shenanigans. The rules need to be rewrote: a new engine should incur the same penalty as the first one.

Do Red Bull have the same straightline speed philosophy to make the most of it and carve through the field? I'm not sure. It's a big risk. But one they should've probably have taken at Brazil as the next track isn't going to be as good for overtaking and they're not going to leave it until the second to last race as they'll only have the benefit of the engine for a short amount of time. I'm not quite sure that it can be described as 'shenanigans'. Any teams are free to replace power unit elements as they see fit and all are subject to the same penalties. Don't really understand the point of view that this is some how underhand.

[AeroDynamic]

Question: should red bull / Honda take a risk on their engine with either a fresh one, or a new one with a higher power mapping like the mercedes? I mean max could just win one more without this risk. But it’s tough one to call. When you’re in the lead in pts, like on the race track, risky decisions are harder to take.

Honda could try to do what MCS are doing but that sort of high power / party mode is an unproven area of reliability for them, an area they didn’t quite match in the past. The penalt would potentially surrender an easy win to MCS and it comes with the risk of the engine not liking it and failing. I don’t know what hand Honda has got, but MCS is pulling their card right now with these engine shenanigans. The rules need to be rewrote: a new engine should incur the same penalty as the first one.

Do Red Bull have the same straightline speed philosophy to make the most of it and carve through the field? I'm not sure. It's a big risk. But one they should've probably have taken at Brazil as the next track isn't going to be as good for overtaking and they're not going to leave it until the second to last race as they'll only have the benefit of the engine for a short amount of time. I'm not quite sure that it can be described as 'shenanigans'. Any teams are free to replace power unit elements as they see fit and all are subject to the same penalties. Don't really understand the point of view that this is some how underhand.

I don’t think it’s underhand, it’s above board. I’m just saying the rules shouldn’t reward what they’re doing.

[AeroDynamic]

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