Lewis third, Jarno given 25s penalty > Trulli 3rd, Lewis DSQ

[PlatinumZealot]

McLaren Lied! NOT Lewis Hamilton..

Anything Hamilton said was obviously under instruction.


Are words a form of evidence?

[timbo]

McLaren Lied! NOT Lewis Hamilton..

Anything Hamilton said was obviously under instruction.


Are words a form of evidence?

That's classic. Why he followed instructions then?

[timbo]

I just think again its confusion from the rules which has caused this situation again.
Its like Spa last year. Right or wrong it.

Try to formulate it better. I'd say it's fine as it is.

I just feel that if its the right decision or not, it should be made on race day and thats it. Over with. Next GP. Sometimes they will be wrong, sometimes right. But this weekend will be all about this now, and less about the racing.

You didn't sign petition after Spa I guess? just askin'

[Shaddock]

By not knowing the rules, or by just being confused as to what to do, McLaren (mostly) and Lewis messed up.

It's not the rules per se, it's the FIA and the teams interpretations of the rules, that causes confusion. Belgium last year for example, the current diffuser row, Alonso impeding Massa in qualifying, and now this. Having a copy of the rule book is one thing, having a clear understanding of how everyone interprets it is another.

[PlatinumZealot]

McLaren Lied! NOT Lewis Hamilton..

Anything Hamilton said was obviously under instruction.


Are words a form of evidence?

That's classic. Why he followed instructions then?

Because he has to.

But anyways, they can shove their 6 points.

Hamilton is like a diamond; the hardest substance known to man,it is created under pressure.

The more punishment LH gets the better he becomes. He is "work hardened." just wait and see....

[timbo]

Because he has to.

Why?

The more punishment LH gets the better he becomes. He is "work hardened." just wait and see....

If that won't include crashing others on pit-lane that's fine)

[Shaddock]

Because he has to.

Why?

The more punishment LH gets the better he becomes. He is "work hardened." just wait and see....

If that won't include crashing others on pit-lane that's fine)

I think Kimi was brake testing him :^o

[nudger]

i would just like to clarify something.
lewis informed the team that trulli had gone wide, hwat should he do.

mclaren, having not seen what went on, said to let hoim past.

lewis then gets back on radio to question it...he went off track, made a mistake, i dont have to give position back.

mclaren then got back and said they agreed, and he should hold station.


lewis then tells them tulli has passed.


i can see how the fia thought what they did, and i can see why hamilton and mclaren may not have consider they were lying. to know if they lied, you have to know exactly what question they answered.

i hope this is and end to it...but i feel it probably isnt.

[NormanBates]

LH: He was off the track. He went wide.
Team: Lewis, you need to allow the Toyota through. Allow the Toyota through now.
LH: OK.
LH: He’s slowed right down in front of me.
Team: OK, Lewis. Stay ahead for the time being. Stay ahead. We will get back to you. We are talking to Charlie.
LH: I let him past already.
Team: OK, Lewis. That’s fine. That’s fine. Hold position. Hold position.
LH: Tell Charlie I already overtook him. I just let him past.


this seems consistent with what Trulli says that he tried to let LH pass him, but LH would not do it

i think not: I think that's from the moment hamilton let trulli overtake; trulli says he didn't want to overtake, but had no chance

what surprises me is that they don't comment on trulli's attempts to make hamilton overtake him

I think Sir needs glasses

LH: He’s slowed right down in front of me.
= Lewis telling his team that Trulli has slowed down infront of him...this is Trulli trying to get Lewis back in front of him.

I don't think so: if you listen to the team radio (hamilton's and trulli's), which you need to see how much time passes between one sentence and the next one, you'll see that in fact that is trulli trying not to overtake hamilton and failing

trulli trying to get overtaken, and failing again, happens about a minute or two after that, and it seems surprising to me that hamilton and his team don't comment that at all (though trulli and his team do)

in any case, the core issue here is that hamilton let trulli overtake him, then realized he shouldn't have done so, and lied to make it seem like trulli speeded up to overtake, so as to get trulli penalized and get P3; he got caught, and is being punished for that

the fair punishment, I think, would be the 25sec penalty he had tried to get for trulli, but in this race DSQ is just the same so it doesn't matter

[Rob W]

As far as I'm concerned the results of races should be decided at the race track. Period.

Race-day results should stand, allowing till the end of the day for Stewards to make a definitive ruling on any issues and then it's a closed book. F1 has to get closer to the NASCAR style of things where people can switch off the race or leave the track knowing that the person they saw win actually won. (later discovered blatant technical cheating etc aside.)

If we went back over videos of past races you could argue a number of times where driver should retrospectively be disqualified. How long is too long? Six months?

These sort of anti-sport rulings will only get worse if nothing is done about the process now. Eventually we'll have rulings like "you were misleading when you described your qualifying fuel load to post Q media - so you're disqualified."

It is insane and just has to stop. If the FIA are such a one-tracked orangisation that they can't appreciate the utter idiots people have come to regard the stewards then they are in serious need of a clean-out and rethink.

In this recent even - neither driver/team tried to do anything on-track which wasn't in the intentions of playing fair, at least not that the audio shows. They are so gun-shy of retarded steward crap Lewis even asked for Charlie's OK. During a race while he is driving a car at 200kmh!!!

As an example for balance - M Schumacher blatantly cheated in qualifying at Monaco by pretending to stall - which video showed and experts agreed on - yet he was allowed to race to 3rd place (or thereabouts). At the time I said he should be excluded from racing that weekend at all because he'd attempted to cheat the result of a race. In ANY other sport I can think of you'd be kicked out for doing something similar.

How is this ruling even remotely equitable in that scale?

NOTE - all this talk about drivers trying to let someone past is irrelevant. Under safety car drivers have often driven really slow for short periods for whatever reason. Likewise, drivers can't speak to each other and have zero of the overall view of the race that we have. Even with radio there can be ten or more seconds delay in messages being send, understood and acted on.

[hulmerist]

the evidence is there, they cheated, they should've been dq'd and got a 10 place grid penalty at malayasia and then that should be the end of it

this talk of him being dq'd from the championship is ridiculous and a complete joke and is probably going to run for a while and ruin what are going to be amazing races coming up

--- the fia, --- the stewards, to think they didn't even listen to the radio comms when making their decision in the first place is just so completely ridiculous i have no words

if it was any other driver there would be no talk of them being removed from the championship

[Giblet]

So yeah.. the next race is upon us.

You chaps think they will have the order of the 1st GP finalized before the next one starts?

They should just change the title "Stewart" to "Judge" and let all the racers drive around, and then subjectively give them each a score after each race. Just like figure skating.

[vall]

As far as I'm concerned the results of races should be decided at the race track. Period.

absolutely, but there should rules under which this should happen. If those rules are not followed, the there should be penalties. In this case they thought Truli did wrong and got penalty. The truth was discovered later and now the got it right this time.

As an example for balance - M Schumacher blatantly cheated in qualifying at Monaco by pretending to stall - which video showed and experts agreed on - yet he was allowed to race to 3rd place (or thereabouts). At the time I said he should be excluded from racing that weekend at all because he'd attempted to cheat the result of a race. In ANY other sport I can think of you'd be kicked out for doing something similar.

I totally agree.

[ringo]

I don't think Hamilton lied. Its easy to say anything when you are in the hot seat. I dont think he had intentions to get truli penalized. From the transcript its obvious everyone was confused and misinformed. Lying is different from answering a question ignorantly.
Lewis knew he rightfully passed truli, and he knew truli went ahead of him.
He didn't wave to truli and indicating "pass me" so literally truli used his own discretion.
lewis saying that truli slowed down infront of him is irrelevant to him being a liar because at that time truli already passed.

I also don't like the idea of penalizing a driver for what they said of the track when these words should have little influence on the outcome of a decision when there is a wealth of evidence available from the race. I would raise an eyebrow to LH but to DQ him

This is just politically motivated to get all the good non diffuser teams back on equal terms to increase competition.

[BTM]

how do you not think that LH lied. He did not answer the question ignorantly. He was asked by stewards whether he consciously let trulli through, which he said he did not. radio transcripts report him saying "i let him pass" not "he passed me" meaning he did consciously let trulli pass. this is not ignorantly answering a question-this is lying