2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix - Jeddah, Dec 03 - 05

[foxmulder_ms]

They should of given Verstappen a 30 second penalty (a 10s stop and go) so he wouldn’t be leading the championship going into the final race. This way he’s going to be trying to DNF the pair of them at the first opportunity he gets next week.

Agree. FIA is lost cause. They are giving "penalties" that do not change anything. In other words, damage limitation to save face. In reality no penalty whatsoever to Redbul. It is clear DSQ. This will be the last season I am watching F1. I would not watch the next race either if Ham did not won this one. HAM's wins are so satisfying though. He is going against everyone on that track and stewards room. What a legend. .

[siskue2005]

I still don't understand why is Max sooooooo desperate, so much so that he is ready to take other car out! (Granted that this is high stakes championship) but its not end of the world, he can still win next race or any other season, he certainly has the talent to do it.. but why does he needs to do it and tarnish his name? Just be a man and lose like a man!

[Bill_Kar]

There is no bottom for FIA, really.

What the heck are they doing? Max (according to them) caused a collision by brake-checking LH and he's handed a convenient 10-sec penalty? After all his shenanigans today??

So, Masi can tell to Mercedes "There, I penalized Verstappen twice, I'm not incompetent" and we're supposed to say OK? And fuel Red Bull's story that they are getting slammed for "fair and tough fighting"??

Jesus.

Hmm, and why Lewis followed Max so close behind, he had room on left to overtake, or just position his car on left side without overtaking him? Because he didn't wan't to give Max DRS . They both played that game, just Max being more guilty than Lewis so he got penalty.
But saying poor Lewis got confused and hit bad Max is laughable .

The thing is that if Bottas was 8 seconds behind MV, he would be given a 5 sec penalty. And if Bottas was 4 seconds behind, there would be no penalty at all.

They still apply suitable penalties in order to not influence the championship.

Moreover, the race director applied the maximum possible penalty to make a point that he is harsh on Verstappen, when this is far away from the truth because the penalty had no implications at all.

I respect your opinion, but I don't really understand people that are "PRO-RACING" and make excuses for the absolutely non-racing mentality of MV.

[radosav]

There is no bottom for FIA, really.

What the heck are they doing? Max (according to them) caused a collision by brake-checking LH and he's handed a convenient 10-sec penalty? After all his shenanigans today??

So, Masi can tell to Mercedes "There, I penalized Verstappen twice, I'm not incompetent" and we're supposed to say OK? And fuel Red Bull's story that they are getting slammed for "fair and tough fighting"??

Jesus.

Hmm, and why Lewis followed Max so close behind, he had room on left to overtake, or just position his car on left side without overtaking him? Because he didn't wan't to give Max DRS . They both played that game, just Max being more guilty than Lewis so he got penalty.
But saying poor Lewis got confused and hit bad Max is laughable .

Lewis did not break any rules, he can drive as slow as he feels like. At least he is driving fairly and not meddling in Max's race. He was not even instructed that he was to overtake Max and so did the right thing when seeing a will Max Verstappen suddenly driving slowly. Max on the other hand is just blatantly trying to take out another driver.

you are blind, Lewis had opportunity to overtake him without any problems, but just wanted to play DRS games, many times before drivers had car problems and other drivers would just overtake them, but this, i don't know what Lewis was trying to do

[Bill_Kar]

I still don't understand why is Max sooooooo desperate, so much so that he is ready to take other car out! (Granted that this is high stakes championship) but its not end of the world, he can still win next race or any other season, he certainly has the talent to do it.. but why does he needs to do it and tarnish his name? Just be a man and lose like a man!

Practically, he leads WDC. Every non-finish of the pair is a win for Max.

In essence, I think he has a lot of pressure around him to deliver, especially from his father.

But I think the most damaging are Marko and Horner. They actually nurture these reckless moves.

[radosav]

There is no bottom for FIA, really.

What the heck are they doing? Max (according to them) caused a collision by brake-checking LH and he's handed a convenient 10-sec penalty? After all his shenanigans today??

So, Masi can tell to Mercedes "There, I penalized Verstappen twice, I'm not incompetent" and we're supposed to say OK? And fuel Red Bull's story that they are getting slammed for "fair and tough fighting"??

Jesus.

Hmm, and why Lewis followed Max so close behind, he had room on left to overtake, or just position his car on left side without overtaking him? Because he didn't wan't to give Max DRS . They both played that game, just Max being more guilty than Lewis so he got penalty.
But saying poor Lewis got confused and hit bad Max is laughable .

The thing is that if Bottas was 8 seconds behind MV, he would be given a 5 sec penalty. And if Bottas was 4 seconds behind, there would be no penalty at all.

They still apply suitable penalties in order to not influence the championship.

Moreover, the race director applied the maximum possible penalty to make a point that he is harsh on Verstappen, when this is far away from the truth because the penalty had no implications at all.

I respect your opinion, but I don't really understand people that are "PRO-RACING" and make excuses for the absolutely non-racing mentality of MV.

i get what are you saying but situation wasn't black n white, you can see it in this video

[PlatinumZealot]

I can’t understand how being found to have brake checked another car in a Grand Prix is 10 seconds. I fear for the last race now, I want a race worthy of the champions not dive bombing and brake checks.

Unfortunately the only way to get some actual properly good racing at the front of the grid is for Max to not be in a fast car.

Its actually crazy when you think about it, that the person best placed to win the championship for most of the season and for some reason praised as the next F1 Jesus, is literally incapable of actually racing properly on track. In fact, his style completely neutralises the prospect of actual racing happening.

And it has been that was since he joined F1 too. That's the problem. He's been driving like as asshat for yeeeeeeeeeears and everyone from former drivers, to commentators, to his team and management have all been kissing his ass the whole time he's been doing it.

So now we arrive in a season where he is not just being talked about here and there while other drivers duking it out for the championship. HE is winning the championship for most of 2021 and needs to go up against one of the best in the history of the sport basically every race.

But what do we see? Trash. Absolute trash tier racing.

Multi lap, multi corner battles with fair and hard racing like Ham v Alonso in Hungary or Ham v Perez in Russia, or Ham v Perez in brazil?

With the crowd cheering in excitement and appreciation at the spectacle of two racers actually racing each other, back and forth, corner to corner, displaying actual racing skills?

No, if he's overtaking Ham, he's almost crashing into him.

No if he's defending Ham, he's almost crashing into him. Even landing a wheel on Lewis' head at one point.

And it's not here or there, it's literally every, single, time.

You're incapable of properly braking for a turn and remaining on track/not pushing off track when Ham is nearby, every time? Eeeeeeevery time?

Its the kind of thing you expect to see in "shitty F1 2021 online driver" videos on YouTube, not the supposed next best thing in racing who is ready to receive the baton as the best driver on the grid.

Max is Lewis Hamilton's "final Boss"

[dans79]

Hmm, and why Lewis followed Max so close behind, he had room on left to overtake, or just position his car on left side without overtaking him? Because he didn't wan't to give Max DRS . They both played that game, just Max being more guilty than Lewis so he got penalty.
But saying poor Lewis got confused and hit bad Max is laughable .

Lewis did not break any rules, he can drive as slow as he feels like. At least he is driving fairly and not meddling in Max's race. He was not even instructed that he was to overtake Max and so did the right thing when seeing a will Max Verstappen suddenly driving slowly. Max on the other hand is just blatantly trying to take out another driver.

you are blind, Lewis had opportunity to overtake him without any problems, but just wanted to play DRS games, many times before drivers had car problems and other drivers would just overtake them, but this, i don't know what Lewis was trying to do
https://youtu.be/TLGAeCGl8R4

You seem to be forgetting one simple fact, Lewis didn't know that Max had been told to let Lewis by.

Additionally there is no rule that prevents Lewis from staying behind Max. Lewis has run a lot of races, And he knows, that you generally don't want to overtake in A DRS zone, when one is immediately following it.

[radosav]

Lewis did not break any rules, he can drive as slow as he feels like. At least he is driving fairly and not meddling in Max's race. He was not even instructed that he was to overtake Max and so did the right thing when seeing a will Max Verstappen suddenly driving slowly. Max on the other hand is just blatantly trying to take out another driver.

you are blind, Lewis had opportunity to overtake him without any problems, but just wanted to play DRS games, many times before drivers had car problems and other drivers would just overtake them, but this, i don't know what Lewis was trying to do
https://youtu.be/TLGAeCGl8R4

You seem to be forgetting one simple fact, Lewis didn't know that Max had been told to let Lewis by.

Additionally there is no rule that prevents Lewis from staying behind Max. Lewis has run a lot of races, And he knows, that you generally don't want to overtake in A DRS zone, when one is immediately following it.

every racer would overtake Max if got oportunity like this, he would probably asume his deployment is gone, or engine went broken, please don't make fool of all of us with your subjective statements

[Hammerfist]

I still don't understand why is Max sooooooo desperate, so much so that he is ready to take other car out! (Granted that this is high stakes championship) but its not end of the world, he can still win next race or any other season, he certainly has the talent to do it.. but why does he needs to do it and tarnish his name? Just be a man and lose like a man!

Practically, he leads WDC. Every non-finish of the pair is a win for Max.

In essence, I think he has a lot of pressure around him to deliver, especially from his father.

But I think the most damaging are Marko and Horner. They actually nurture these reckless moves.

Hopefully the redbull owner will step in if they fail to win it this year. and fire both Horner and Marko. Max needs better mentors than these two. I've never liked the way they have turned the team essentially into a one driver show, but on top of that they do not hold Max accountable for any of his mistakes. They have created a monster on track who honestly thinks that today his driving is what F1 should be all about. That is a delusional take and it needs addressing asap. So yeah Horner and Marko need to be relieved of their duties. But if Max wins the WDC, it makes it a lot harder to fire those two clowns, but I would strongly advise it anyway. They are doing damage to the brand as well with the way they behave.

[dans79]

you are blind, Lewis had opportunity to overtake him without any problems, but just wanted to play DRS games, many times before drivers had car problems and other drivers would just overtake them, but this, i don't know what Lewis was trying to do
https://youtu.be/TLGAeCGl8R4

You seem to be forgetting one simple fact, Lewis didn't know that Max had been told to let Lewis by.

Additionally there is no rule that prevents Lewis from staying behind Max. Lewis has run a lot of races, And he knows, that you generally don't want to overtake in A DRS zone, when one is immediately following it.

every racer would overtake Max if got oportunity like this, he would probably asume his deployment is gone, or engine went broken, please don't make fool of all of us with your subjective statements

I'm not making a fool of anyone, but plenty of people have done that all by themselves today all across the Internet!

[e30ernest]

There is one aspect nobody touches spin yet. This happened twice before. Rosberg and Vettel. This relentless pressure from Hamilton already destroyed two opponents. One is sitting at the beach and one poodling around at the back. Don’t underestimate what a hunting Hamilton does to your mental health

Interesting thought. It does look like the pressure is starting to get into Max' head. His radio messages seem frantic and his driving seems more erratic and dare I say, desperate. While it is amazing we are level on points coming into the final race, it's still scary to think that Max with his mindset can simply take Lewis out and win the title. I hope it does not come to that.

I've stayed away from the thread to gather my thoughts too. While exciting, I do not think the driving standards shown here by Max was up to F1's standards. I really want to like Max, I think he's potentially one of the best drivers ever, but his dirty driving is not something I want to see in F1.

That said, without Max and Lewis, the championship this year would look very different IMO. Both of them are driving way above what their teammates can muster and to see them drive off to the distance once they secure the 1-2 slots is nothing sort of amazing. Seeing them skirt the walls in this track lap after lap, trading fastest lap after fastest lap was both terrifying and awe-inspiring.

Good on Bottas to take the 3rd spot right before the line. Gutted for Ocon though. He deserved that podium.

[Incognito]

I am fine with penalty, but giving one driver penalty doesn't make other driver innocent, or this case clear black and white.
Truth is very gray, and they both hold their part of responsibility, with FIA included

I can agree with your original point, but the instigator is clear. Yes, Hamilton could have avoided it. He could have stopped his car and left the circuit too. BUt it's like blaming Villneuve for not avoiding Schumacher, or Prost for not dodging Senna's lunge. You can do it, but it's a fallacy that ignores responsibility and instigation.

* * *
As a further aside, can anyone explain why Hamilton was threatened with a Black-and-white flag for pushing Verstappen off the track? Was Hamilton's mistake that he actually stayed within the bounds of the course?

And has their been any investigation into the illegal pit lane start? Wasn't that a slam-dunk time penalty when Hamilton did it? Like re-overtaking a car immediately after letting them past was a slam-dunk time penalty?

[ringo]

I still don't understand why is Max sooooooo desperate, so much so that he is ready to take other car out! (Granted that this is high stakes championship) but its not end of the world, he can still win next race or any other season, he certainly has the talent to do it.. but why does he needs to do it and tarnish his name? Just be a man and lose like a man!

He has been told that he is the best, the best at street circuits too. Hamilton has no talent and he is only fast because he had the fastest car. So I think there is a mental breakdown when he cannot compute why Horner's, Jos' and Helmut's reassurance that Hamilton is mediocre isn't making sense in reality. And here is tied on points... Hamilton winning 3 races in a row. I don't think he has processed what is happening and is reacting in the wrong way because his handlers have him believe that the world is against him. I would have enjoyed this championship more without the dirty driving. Pace alone and strong defending and craft would have been more satisfying.

Hamilton is winning against all odds. Just using experience to dodge bullets at this stage.
I hope he wins lights to flag in abudhabi and leave redbull with their jaws on the floor unable to do anything.
At this point Max is mentally distraught, you can see it on his face. But he has done very well so far as a 24 year old driving against really difficult competition. If he had been better managed he would not be having this breakdown.
Focusing on his speed and craft would have paid off more than focusing on dirty tactics.
It's almost as if he has conceded that Hamilton is the better driver. deep down but refuses to try and improve himself. It's sad, and I hope he is a cleaner driver next year.
Alonso would have indeed been a better opponent were he in the Redbull.

[Phil]

Quiz question: if Max’s intentions were genuine to let Hamilton by with no risk of causing a collision, or damage his opponent;

1.)
Why did he accelerate after he was hit?

2.)
why didnt he simply move to the far right and make it unambiguously clear what his intentions were and why was he right smack in the middle of the road when he went on the brakes?