2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix - Jeddah, Dec 03 - 05

[Bill]

Hami winning aganst all odds is propaganda of the highest level .if he wins is because Merc crashed into Max 3 times then they are those curious flexy wing and rocket pu from Brazil

[DChemTech]

It been interesting to read many updates on the break test, and see the 1990 Senna Prost accident again and listening to MVs onboard instructions "strategically" give back the place.

The 10 second penalty for MV isn't suffiecient to deter another 1990 take out. It merely says MV do whatever you want. If LH wins the WDC against the forces against him it'll be one of his best. I'm well aware people are saying LH is dirty; i've not seen anything from LH where he has time and time again done the level of things MV has to MV. Some will point to silverstone, even then there was nothing level brake testing in the middle of the circuit, driving LH out wide, driving on his head etc. There has been plenty of sutle things, they're not at the same level as MV and RBR.

One thing I haven't noticed is a discussion on the constructors title. Surely this is al but Mercs now, RBR will be desparate for thr WDC, that makes the next race and the behaviour IMO more dangerous. While i'm looking forward to the race, i'm not looking forward to what might happen..

The forces against him, really.
All of Max' digressions have been penalized, rightfully. In case of his off-track overtake even twice (first with let him pass instructions, and when Lewis failed to pass, still with a penalty).
Max was penalized for an incident that was not 100% his fault even. Yes, he was driving confusingly, but so was Lewis. It took two to tango in that clash, and one got the blame.

On the other hand, Lewis, or Mercedes, has not been penalized for anything. Not for deliberately and excessively stalling the field while under an SC. Slowdown on the outlap after the red flag was pretty nasty tactics, but the rules did not foresee in that, so they got away. Pushing Max off the track in the same location Max pushed Lewis off before? No penalty for Lewis, just a warning, while Max was penalized for the same maneuver. Sure, Max did it more like a divebomb and Lewis in an sneaky "I'll make you run out of road" manner, but he was clearly doing so on purpose.
I'm not contesting the penalties Max got, but I am contesting that Lewis once again got off completely free. There are no forces playing against him, quite the contrary.

[Just_a_fan]

For the gladiatorial spectacle I have to disagree and remember that F1 is owned by an American conglomerate that like hard contact!

F1 is owned by the FIA. Liberty have a licence to promote it and make money from it.

Are you sure? F1 is owned by Liberty… The governing body (rules and regulations) is FIA


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, Liberty hold the rights to promote F1 races, to market them, hold them, and pay the FIA for the right to do so. But the championship belongs to the FIA. The champion is the "FIA Formula One World Champion", not the "Liberty Formula One World Champion". Liberty are effectively renting F1 from the FIA just as you might rent a house from a landlord.

[xaero]

It been interesting to read many updates on the break test, and see the 1990 Senna Prost accident again and listening to MVs onboard instructions "strategically" give back the place.

The 10 second penalty for MV isn't suffiecient to deter another 1990 take out. It merely says MV do whatever you want. If LH wins the WDC against the forces against him it'll be one of his best. I'm well aware people are saying LH is dirty; i've not seen anything from LH where he has time and time again done the level of things MV has to MV. Some will point to silverstone, even then there was nothing level brake testing in the middle of the circuit, driving LH out wide, driving on his head etc. There has been plenty of sutle things, they're not at the same level as MV and RBR.

One thing I haven't noticed is a discussion on the constructors title. Surely this is al but Mercs now, RBR will be desparate for thr WDC, that makes the next race and the behaviour IMO more dangerous. While i'm looking forward to the race, i'm not looking forward to what might happen..

The forces against him, really.
All of Max' digressions have been penalized, rightfully. In case of his off-track overtake even twice (first with let him pass instructions, and when Lewis failed to pass, still with a penalty).
Max was penalized for an incident that was not 100% his fault even. Yes, he was driving confusingly, but so was Lewis. It took two to tango in that clash, and one got the blame.

On the other hand, Lewis, or Mercedes, has not been penalized for anything. Not for deliberately and excessively stalling the field while under an SC. Slowdown on the outlap after the red flag was pretty nasty tactics, but the rules did not foresee in that, so they got away. Pushing Max off the track in the same location Max pushed Lewis off before? No penalty for Lewis, just a warning, while Max was penalized for the same maneuver. Sure, Max did it more like a divebomb and Lewis in an sneaky "I'll make you run out of road" manner, but he was clearly doing so on purpose.
I'm not contesting the penalties Max got, but I am contesting that Lewis once again got off completely free. There are no forces playing against him, quite the contrary.

Come out of la la land with your imaginary penalties for HAM.

[Roo]

It been interesting to read many updates on the break test, and see the 1990 Senna Prost accident again and listening to MVs onboard instructions "strategically" give back the place.

The 10 second penalty for MV isn't suffiecient to deter another 1990 take out. It merely says MV do whatever you want. If LH wins the WDC against the forces against him it'll be one of his best. I'm well aware people are saying LH is dirty; i've not seen anything from LH where he has time and time again done the level of things MV has to MV. Some will point to silverstone, even then there was nothing level brake testing in the middle of the circuit, driving LH out wide, driving on his head etc. There has been plenty of sutle things, they're not at the same level as MV and RBR.

One thing I haven't noticed is a discussion on the constructors title. Surely this is al but Mercs now, RBR will be desparate for thr WDC, that makes the next race and the behaviour IMO more dangerous. While i'm looking forward to the race, i'm not looking forward to what might happen..

The forces against him, really.
All of Max' digressions have been penalized, rightfully. In case of his off-track overtake even twice (first with let him pass instructions, and when Lewis failed to pass, still with a penalty).
Max was penalized for an incident that was not 100% his fault even. Yes, he was driving confusingly, but so was Lewis. It took two to tango in that clash, and one got the blame.

On the other hand, Lewis, or Mercedes, has not been penalized for anything. Not for deliberately and excessively stalling the field while under an SC. Slowdown on the outlap after the red flag was pretty nasty tactics, but the rules did not foresee in that, so they got away. Pushing Max off the track in the same location Max pushed Lewis off before? No penalty for Lewis, just a warning, while Max was penalized for the same maneuver. Sure, Max did it more like a divebomb and Lewis in an sneaky "I'll make you run out of road" manner, but he was clearly doing so on purpose.
I'm not contesting the penalties Max got, but I am contesting that Lewis once again got off completely free. There are no forces playing against him, quite the contrary.

Breathe; thank you for illustrating there is a difference. You're saying LH should be punished for there not being a rule. I've heard it all. No, MV hasn't been penalized for all things in all races. By saying "Max was penalized for an incident that was not 100% his fault" we all could say the same for LH at Silverstone and other races.

In most of the incidents there largely one common factor, "Max did it more like a divebomb". Silverstone late, Monza late, Brazil late, SA late. The only penalty is 5 seconds. If you want to talk forces, MV even questions why he got 5 seconds at SA because he ddnt get it in Brazil. Even after Masi said differently. There are forces against pushing.

[sushantasapkota1]

Whatever happens.. That merc is quick at race pace

[Carmack]

I'm reading a lot of opinions from yesterdays race, but I just can't compute MV supporters. I myself am a McLaren guy, not really a fan of either LH or MV. BUT, I just can't go by MV sportsmanship, from the very beginning of his F1 career. Forcing others off track, putting them in a position "crash out or give me the position", and constantly yawning on about it.
The fact that Horner and Marko are nursing that behaviour isn't really helping.
Before you start bashing me, think about why it is possilbe to have sucessfull drivers lihe Norris or Sainz, Ocon or Russell (left Leclerc out on purpose), that make the impact without the use of dirty tactics and questionable racecraft/sportsmanship? Sure, none of them are WDC contenders, but they don't have the machinery to be in such a position.
I think MV is just getting desperate and the last race will be tough, not just for the drivers, but I fear that for the FIA/stewards also...

Regards,

[InsaneX_Badger]

I just hope covid doesn't strike and ruin the championship.

[radosav]

I am fine with penalty, but giving one driver penalty doesn't make other driver innocent, or this case clear black and white.
Truth is very gray, and they both hold their part of responsibility, with FIA included

I can agree with your original point, but the instigator is clear. Yes, Hamilton could have avoided it. He could have stopped his car and left the circuit too. BUt it's like blaming Villneuve for not avoiding Schumacher, or Prost for not dodging Senna's lunge. You can do it, but it's a fallacy that ignores responsibility and instigation.

* * *
As a further aside, can anyone explain why Hamilton was threatened with a Black-and-white flag for pushing Verstappen off the track? Was Hamilton's mistake that he actually stayed within the bounds of the course?

And has their been any investigation into the illegal pit lane start? Wasn't that a slam-dunk time penalty when Hamilton did it? Like re-overtaking a car immediately after letting them past was a slam-dunk time penalty?

stop making it look like hamilton was perfectly innocent in this, penalty doesnt mean it was only Max's fault, read the explanation from judges, they both played the game, but Max was a dirtier player, so he got penalty as severe as he deserves it, it is simple like that

[NathanOlder]

Has Verstappen been voted driver of the day because F1 fans like dirty tricks? I think not. He's been voted because they think he's more genuine.

No. He was voted because the “orange army” are rabid and flood the votes. It’s a popularity contest.

Yea, it shows how lowsome some of them are.

2 penalties, and attempts to take out an opponent. And they all think it's perfectly fine!

Thats just the type of fans (not all of them) netflix has drawn in.

[basti313]

Reminder to self: if HAM and VER are close on track and both trying for the corner(s), stay away from race thread because it explodes with HAM biased fans. I am not saying Max didnt do anything wrong. But to say HAM was only the victim... thats not how racing works. This is racing.
I'll stay away from the race thread and leave it to it.

Why today?
The nice thing is that everyone is right today.
Those who claim Max ist faster than Lewis are right. The Q lap of Lewis was just a safety lap, Max was stellar. No idea where he took that (part) lap from.
Those who claim that Lewis is the better driver are of course also right. Because he did not crash the car in Q and managed to stay clear of Max in the race (ok partially).
Those who say Max ia driving dirty, of course...
Those who say Lewis is driving dirty as well...yes, of course...
Lucky Lewis...I have no idea how the front wing can survive and the car is ready to do fastest laps with this front wing...for any other driver it would have ended in the wall with the front wing under the car after touching Ocon already.
Unlucky Lewis...the red flag, of course.

It might be really a week of harmony

you forgot Lucky Max, that rearending could have easily ended up being a puncture and/or DNF, with Lewis of course ending up bagging another 25:0, because #blessed

Absolutely. And there is unlucky Max of course for basically the same on Lewis car.

And we have of course the stewards and Masi...now the Lewis maniacs can still complain for the next years that Max did not get a penalty here and then for driving off Lewis and the iorange ones can complain that Lewis did not get a penalty for the same...

Just great, like Christmas for everyone.

For me...
Great track, without the pure dominance of two drivers it would be just the best track. Next year we will have this battle again with Rus vs. Ham. But with such a track similarly to Monaco or Baku, there is nearly always drama.
Next week unfortunately will not offer this drama on an easy track...

[DChemTech]

Breathe; thank you for illustrating there is a difference. You're saying LH should be punished for there not being a rule. I've heard it all. No, MV hasn't been penalized for all things in all races. By saying "Max was penalized for an incident that was not 100% his fault" we all could say the same for LH at Silverstone and other races.

In most of the incidents there largely one common factor, "Max did it more like a divebomb". Silverstone late, Monza late, Brazil late, SA late. The only penalty is 5 seconds. If you want to talk forces, MV even questions why he got 5 seconds at SA because he ddnt get it in Brazil. Even after Masi said differently. There are forces against pushing.

The point is, pushing your opponent off is pushing your opponent off. Whether you do it obviously or sneakily.
And Silverstone and yesterday are not at all comparable. In Silverstone they were racing a corner and one driver made a mistake that compromised the corner of the other; the other could have avoided it and might have been smarter to do so, but he was not to blame.
This time, one driver was giving room for the other to pass, as he was instructed. The other one had plenty of room and time to pass, but was reluctant to do so. From that point on, they both started acting confusingly: Hamilton moved around, Verstappen slowed down even more at a rather strange point. Both could have avoided the incident, but both are also partially to blame for the way things turned out (although the main blame here is at the stewards, who should have issued the order much more quickly and decisively)

[siskue2005]

No. He was voted because the “orange army” are rabid and flood the votes. It’s a popularity contest.

Yea, it shows how lowsome some of them are.

2 penalties, and attempts to take out an opponent. And they all think it's perfectly fine!

Thats just the type of fans (not all of them) netflix has drawn in.

If u go into f1 official Facebook page you can see the comment section that they are flooded with comments calling lewis as the cheater. It's the same in twitter

[Just_a_fan]

if he wins is because Merc crashed into Max 3 times

Which 3 times are they then?

[Bill]

silverstone ,hungary.saudi merc crash in Rbr