2021 Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Jambier]

This is mainly because Mercedes (under frozen regulation this year) suddenly unlocked a lot of pace from their car, making it unbeatable.

I think the pace was always there, they just spent most of the season trying to overcome issues from the beginning of the season!

Yes there is some of that on the chassis, unlocking full potential, but there is also the engine evolution and special for 3 races

[rogazilla]

It was just a little mistake that made him lockup in the final corner. He braked at the same point but he had more speed than his lap before... Because of that he had to abort his lap and not get pole or push through and hope for the best. He did the latter and crashed.

The final corner isn't difficult nor is there a lot of time to gain by pushing hard. In the interview after qualifying he said he braked at the same point and didn't understand what had happened yet. The thing is he should have braked earlier/harder but he probably didn't notice how much faster he was than the lap before at point.

Second this. It is all about reference points. I had spent quite some time doing track day on both Motorcycle and Cars. One thing that you quickly learn and what separate from rookie to someone good is to who knows to find reference point to know where to brake and where to turn. During practice, that's when you see a lot of people trying different line and test the 'reference' point. The fact he's running faster leading to that point and he used the same reference point to brake at the exact same point probably just exceeded the limit of the tire.

[ringo]

Any car that was going on pole by half a second is a competitive car. I don't by this idea that merc are unraceable. If they were Both Lewis and Bottas would have dissapeared off into the distance at SA.
The cars have been quite equal on laptime in the last 2 races. Only mistakes from max and the team have let them down. In Losail, the front wing was damaged and we had the yellow flags incident.
In SA we had Q3 mistake and the dirty driving and the wrong tyre choice.
There was no great difference between the cars. Mercedes have less deg on the hard tyre and Lewis knows how to make them last while keeping pace. Max car is good on the medium but didnt get to exploit the speed because of all the stoppages in the race.
The last race we can see Max on pole easily if he doesnt make any errors.

[bonjon1979]

What on earth is going on with Red Bull? It feels like they've lost the plot a little bit. They seem to be complaining about the Mercedes being too fast, and they're beaten already. First of all, the whole sport is about building the fastest car. You don't hear mclaren complaining about losing a second in the corners to Red Bull. Second, this idea that because mercedes are faster that some how warrants not following the rules of racing? Merc have got the fastest car, so of course we should be allowed to go off track. Why all this talk about 'white lines'? It's only the track, we shouldn't actually have to follow it or stay on it to win races. It's absolute madness. They've all drunk the Verstappen Koolaid, it's so ugly to see.

This is mainly because Mercedes (under frozen regulation this year) suddenly unlocked a lot of pace from their car, making it unbeatable.

Of course, this is suspicious, and more than that RB is really frustrated that suddendly they can't fight anymore, and also I think they are angry with themselves not having saw that coming and not pushing as hard as needed to progress all the year.

RB was usually the best team to finish the season, and the year they are fighting for championship, they don't and will lose both title because of that.

Once season is finished they really need to think about how they managed badly this season, both them and Verstappen

Suspicion is fine. They're all suspicious. But they've complained and found absolutely nothing wrong. Red Bull now aren 't complaining about anything being wrong, just the car is too quick for them. Do you not agree that it's strange that a racing team, is now saying that white lines, overtaking off track doesn't matter? Max can just straightline the corners off track because that's racing - and he shouldn't be punished? Is this something that any fan of racing can think is right? The mind absolutely boggles - the sport is dead if we say that drivers can do what they like, push people off track. Not bother following the track even. Red Bull are dragging the sport into the mud by creating this narrative that Max has been hard done by because he was penalised for driving off the road and cutting the corner to overtake someone. Is that really what we want now? Whacky races? Demolision derby? The rules only apply to all the other drivers.

[bonjon1979]

The truth is actually that Red Bull are building a narrative in the media, saying that the FIA are against them, that Merc have them in their pocket because they know that if Max can't win in the final race, he will try to take Hamilton out. By creating this huge s**tstorm in the media about the bias against them, they'll make it impossible for Max to be disqualified from the championship. You can bookmark this comment and quote it on sunday and deride me if I'm proved wrong, but I guarantee you that Max will try to end Lewis's race on sunday. No question.

[Big Tea]

Any car that was going on pole by half a second is a competitive car. I don't by this idea that merc are unraceable. If they were Both Lewis and Bottas would have dissapeared off into the distance at SA.
The cars have been quite equal on laptime in the last 2 races. Only mistakes from max and the team have let them down. In Losail, the front wing was damaged and we had the yellow flags incident.
In SA we had Q3 mistake and the dirty driving and the wrong tyre choice.
There was no great difference between the cars. Mercedes have less deg on the hard tyre and Lewis knows how to make them last while keeping pace. Max car is good on the medium but didnt get to exploit the speed because of all the stoppages in the race.
The last race we can see Max on pole easily if he doesnt make any errors.

In the last races Red Bull seemed to favour qualli position over a better long run car. This track looks to be a similar starting point for either so the teams could be closer together, or even further apart. Difficult to know as it is a while since they would have taken the same route to setup.

[Gillian]

Any car that was going on pole by half a second is a competitive car. I don't by this idea that merc are unraceable. If they were Both Lewis and Bottas would have dissapeared off into the distance at SA.
The cars have been quite equal on laptime in the last 2 races. Only mistakes from max and the team have let them down. In Losail, the front wing was damaged and we had the yellow flags incident.
In SA we had Q3 mistake and the dirty driving and the wrong tyre choice.
There was no great difference between the cars. Mercedes have less deg on the hard tyre and Lewis knows how to make them last while keeping pace. Max car is good on the medium but didnt get to exploit the speed because of all the stoppages in the race.
The last race we can see Max on pole easily if he doesnt make any errors.

I don't think anyone would say the Red Bull is not competitive. You do ignore a few facts:

• Verstappen was not going to be on pole by 0.5 sec. It would have been about 0.2 - 0.3 is more accurate.

• Verstappen took extreme risks to get that laptime, Hamilton played it safe and left some on the table.

• Mercedes had some tire warmup issues which made them slightly less competitive in qualifying, but more so in the race

Sure it's easy to just say Red Bull is competitive and Verstappen binned it, what a sucker. But the reality is a lot more nuanced than that.

[Big Tea]

Any car that was going on pole by half a second is a competitive car. I don't by this idea that merc are unraceable. If they were Both Lewis and Bottas would have dissapeared off into the distance at SA.
The cars have been quite equal on laptime in the last 2 races. Only mistakes from max and the team have let them down. In Losail, the front wing was damaged and we had the yellow flags incident.
In SA we had Q3 mistake and the dirty driving and the wrong tyre choice.
There was no great difference between the cars. Mercedes have less deg on the hard tyre and Lewis knows how to make them last while keeping pace. Max car is good on the medium but didnt get to exploit the speed because of all the stoppages in the race.
The last race we can see Max on pole easily if he doesnt make any errors.

I don't think anyone would say the Red Bull is not competitive. You do ignore a few facts:

• Verstappen was not going to be on pole by 0.5 sec. It would have been about 0.2 - 0.3 is more accurate.

• Verstappen took extreme risks to get that laptime, Hamilton played it safe and left some on the table.

• Mercedes had some tire warmup issues which made them slightly less competitive in qualifying, but more so in the race

Sure it's easy to just say Red Bull is competitive and Verstappen binned it, what a sucker. But the reality is a lot more nuanced than that.

Also Merc had fuel onboard for 3 runs we know of, it is possible there was more still unused. Hard to judge.

[ringo]

I have a slight hunch mercedes will be a little better over the race distance because of the engine tune.
The temperatures will not be high, so redbull's downforce and rear grip advantage may not stand out much.
Max may be able to get on pole, but i envision another scenario with Hamilton trying to overtake near the end of a stint, Max covering the inside and waiting to cut across the apex to block Lewis. Mercedes in Hamilton's hands just has that better deg management to allow him to be able to close on Max.
But if no deg issues i think Max can stay ahead.

[Gillian]

Any car that was going on pole by half a second is a competitive car. I don't by this idea that merc are unraceable. If they were Both Lewis and Bottas would have dissapeared off into the distance at SA.
The cars have been quite equal on laptime in the last 2 races. Only mistakes from max and the team have let them down. In Losail, the front wing was damaged and we had the yellow flags incident.
In SA we had Q3 mistake and the dirty driving and the wrong tyre choice.
There was no great difference between the cars. Mercedes have less deg on the hard tyre and Lewis knows how to make them last while keeping pace. Max car is good on the medium but didnt get to exploit the speed because of all the stoppages in the race.
The last race we can see Max on pole easily if he doesnt make any errors.

I don't think anyone would say the Red Bull is not competitive. You do ignore a few facts:

• Verstappen was not going to be on pole by 0.5 sec. It would have been about 0.2 - 0.3 is more accurate.

• Verstappen took extreme risks to get that laptime, Hamilton played it safe and left some on the table.

• Mercedes had some tire warmup issues which made them slightly less competitive in qualifying, but more so in the race

Sure it's easy to just say Red Bull is competitive and Verstappen binned it, what a sucker. But the reality is a lot more nuanced than that.

Also Merc had fuel onboard for 3 runs we know of, it is possible there was more still unused. Hard to judge.

That's true though I don't believe they would have taken that much more anyway. Would not make sense. But indeed hard to judge.

[ringo]

That's all speculation though.
At the end of the day Mercedes went as fast as they could. If they had tyre warm up issues then that is simply why the car cannot be faster. That's their weakness.
The bull was the faster car. Yes 0.3 to 0.4 seconds not half a second. Mercedes went as fast as they could. If there was anything left then they would have exploited it. These teams are very competitive.

[Big Tea]

I don't think anyone would say the Red Bull is not competitive. You do ignore a few facts:

• Verstappen was not going to be on pole by 0.5 sec. It would have been about 0.2 - 0.3 is more accurate.

• Verstappen took extreme risks to get that laptime, Hamilton played it safe and left some on the table.

• Mercedes had some tire warmup issues which made them slightly less competitive in qualifying, but more so in the race

Sure it's easy to just say Red Bull is competitive and Verstappen binned it, what a sucker. But the reality is a lot more nuanced than that.

Also Merc had fuel onboard for 3 runs we know of, it is possible there was more still unused. Hard to judge.

That's true though I don't believe they would have taken that much more anyway. Would not make sense. But indeed hard to judge.

Ham may have thought 'just in case' he caught track limits or traffic (which was bad) and he would not have had time to pit-fill-pass the lights before the session ended.
As you say, he may equally have been on fumes.

[Alexf1]

That's all speculation though.
At the end of the day Mercedes went as fast as they could. If they had tyre warm up issues then that is simply why the car cannot be faster. That's their weakness.
The bull was the faster car. Yes 0.3 to 0.4 seconds not half a second. Mercedes went as fast as they could. If there was anything left then they would have exploited it. These teams are very competitive.

Now that is speculation to fit your narrative.
The Bull crashed trying that speed, the merc was on pole and much faster in the race. Merc has been the faster car since Hungary.

[ringo]

The redbull crashed because the driver was out of control from the first turn. That was an easy pole even after the lock up in the last corner. And Jolyon Palmer made that assessment. Going back on throttle with less agression would have kept max going down the straight for pole.

[Alexf1]

The redbull crashed because the driver was out of control from the first turn. That was an easy pole even after the lock up in the last corner. And Jolyon Palmer made that assessment. Going back on throttle with less agression would have kept max going down the straight for pole.

No. Your first and second sentence 100% contradict one another, if you overdrive the car in that manner you're bound to crash. Which happened. And even if he would have been able to stay off the throttle long enough exiting the last corner he would have lost so much speed and been so much later on the throttle than normal he would have lost massively down the straight to the finish line. Racing basics.