2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

[Marty_Y]

See the speed trap data from the race it wasn’t out of this world as you say, it was all about getting the right drive out of the last corner and setting a proper pass up. He dummied verstappen into making a mistake out of turn one and put him in a bad spot going into the first drs zone…

So you are saying one move on Max by Lewis in one race is responsible for the dramatic change in form from Brazil onward and not the engine they changed at the exact time in question?

Moreover, more power equals the ability to run more wing so the trap speed can be adjusted so they gain more over the entire lap. Especially on a twisty circuit like Brazil. On a lower downforce track, you will see the higher terminal speed difference. Even Merc cannot mask the gain as much as they would like and have candidly referred to the new engine as a "rocket engine". So if they are not cheating, and I would prefer to believe they are not cheating, where do we look for the increase in engine performance that coincided with the engine change?

If you imagine a set of scales and on one side you put reliability and on the other you put power output, normally because a engine has to last around 7 races (plus practices for the first one of the season) engine manufacturers will try to balance the scales by getting the most performance while ensuring it will be reliable for its lifespan of 7 races.

By the end of season after examining used engines they will have a better understanding of how much more they can push the power output without having catastrophic failures.

This engine is expected to do 3 races only, so they can exploit as much power output as possible while sacrificing lifespan because it only needs to last half the time a normal engine would.

There is no cheating happening, as others have also explained there is more going on than just a slightly higher tuned power unit, Mercedes have been on a upwards curve of performance since the Silverstone update package, the set up window has improved dramatically since the Silverstone aero update which improves the balance of the car.

I am by means a expert, so my apologies if my explanation isn't brilliant, I'm just trying to put it as simply as I can for you.
If any cheating was happening Red Bull would be the first to say that the power unit wasn't legal, and they haven't, they keep going on about rear wings as an explanation for the straight line speed advantage that Mercedes has.

[JPower]

There's nothing to suggest they've gained 40hp since Brazil.

You are joking, right? Lewis was driving around the field like they were in reverse whereas the previous few races he would have to work hard to get around the Ferraris, Lando and Daniel and Cheko. At Brazil it was like he had the wind filling his sails at all times. Are you watching the same races as I am? BTW, I am a McLaren fan, not a Max fan just so you know.

Brazil 2021 was like Italy 2004 where JV gained a huge advantage by a fortuitous safety car and he was almost a full lap ahead of Ferrari. Then they flipped to a previously unraced super engine map and suddenly had an extra second per lap to rein him in and win the race. It certainly wasn't due to Lewis' driving. That was the same as it was the previous few races. It was the new engine plain and simple.

In 2017 there was not the near parity we see between Honda, Ferrari and Merc. Then they dominated constantly back then. At the races before and after. In 2021 Merc was equal or worse until the engine change. These are all readily observable facts.

No I'm not joking. You pulled that number out of thin air. I don't think you realize how much 40hp in an F1 car is. Ferrari gained 8-10hp and it was enough to turn the tables against McLaren.

Mercedes is most likely using a more aggressive state of tune for their engine. Combined with a driver that is on his A+ game and improved understanding of the car, and you're seeing results that suggest it has an advantage over Red Bull but not overwhelmingly so like the W11 enjoyed. There is nothing wrong with that.

[holeindalip]

Another thing to think about is the bulge for the air intake trumpets that were put on before the engine freeze, we don’t know if they just activated them now or not. As long as all specs are the same and engine maps available to all its legal….

[McG]

Would it be worthwhile for Hamilton to take an Engine change to put him most likely starting in 6th then blitz through to win? Too much risk?

[e30ernest]

Would it be worthwhile for Hamilton to take an Engine change to put him most likely starting in 6th then blitz through to win? Too much risk?

Usually track position is more important. I'd think if they want to minimize risk, they'd go for pole/front row and go from there. Starting from 6th only opens you up to collisions with the midfield who would know they can be more aggressive since Lewis has more to lose.

[McG]

Would it be worthwhile for Hamilton to take an Engine change to put him most likely starting in 6th then blitz through to win? Too much risk?

Usually track position is more important. I'd think if they want to minimize risk, they'd go for pole/front row and go from there. Starting from 6th only opens you up to collisions with the midfield who would know they can be more aggressive since Lewis has more to lose.

True but he would be soooo much faster than the others in front. But maybe the engine he will use for the race at the moment is near peak power anyway. But you have to think Honda will have something extra for this race.

[Jolle]

Would it be worthwhile for Hamilton to take an Engine change to put him most likely starting in 6th then blitz through to win? Too much risk?

Usually track position is more important. I'd think if they want to minimize risk, they'd go for pole/front row and go from there. Starting from 6th only opens you up to collisions with the midfield who would know they can be more aggressive since Lewis has more to lose.

True but he would be soooo much faster than the others in front. But maybe the engine he will use for the race at the moment is near peak power anyway. But you have to think Honda will have something extra for this race.

I expect RedBull going for track position at any costs. They can’t win following, so, aggressive engine mode, high fuel usage, etc etc, even if that means a steep drop off during the last part of the race or even a DNF. We saw the same kind of strategy the last race.

[1m0bius1]

Max has had two engines left for 11 races. Not exactly the freshest engine's. I dont know why people talk about this.

[TechAddict]

Would it be worthwhile for Hamilton to take an Engine change to put him most likely starting in 6th then blitz through to win? Too much risk?

Usually track position is more important. I'd think if they want to minimize risk, they'd go for pole/front row and go from there. Starting from 6th only opens you up to collisions with the midfield who would know they can be more aggressive since Lewis has more to lose.

True but he would be soooo much faster than the others in front. But maybe the engine he will use for the race at the moment is near peak power anyway. But you have to think Honda will have something extra for this race.

I agree the track position would be better from a risk management POV. A new engine would not make Hamilton that much faster.
Have you guys not realised yet that once MB found out that their engines coudn't laste 7 races, and had to use more, they could also run them harder, hence the increased speed on the straights. (also with the added rear wing and suspension tuning) It's quite logical that way. Hamilton "new" engine is only on the 3 race, and they can streatch it to the max, so a new engine would not give them much, and the increased risk of starting 6th is much worse.

[McG]

Max has had two engines left for 11 races. Not exactly the freshest engine's. I dont know why people talk about this.

I talk about it as in ask here once because I don't keep up with all the component use because I find it boring. Now it's the final race, I'm slightly interested.

[McG]

Usually track position is more important. I'd think if they want to minimize risk, they'd go for pole/front row and go from there. Starting from 6th only opens you up to collisions with the midfield who would know they can be more aggressive since Lewis has more to lose.

True but he would be soooo much faster than the others in front. But maybe the engine he will use for the race at the moment is near peak power anyway. But you have to think Honda will have something extra for this race.

I agree the track position would be better from a risk management POV. A new engine would not make Hamilton that much faster.
Have you guys not realised yet that once MB found out that their engines coudn't laste 7 races, and had to use more, they could also run them harder, hence the increased speed on the straights. (also with the added rear wing and suspension tuning) It's quite logical that way. Hamilton "new" engine is only on the 3 race, and they can streatch it to the max, so a new engine would not give them much, and the increased risk of starting 6th is much worse.

Cool thanks for explaining.

[Big Tea]

If there is one thing we have learned about the merc team, it is- If it looks like an engine tweak, look somewhere else

[mstar]

Horner said something interesting he said since new tests introduced the rival team did modifications and they seeing them "on-par" with them, so no protest this weekend. I wonder if this pegged merc back a bit with the rear suspension/wing efficiency which now limits the top speed a little.

[siskue2005]

Horner said something interesting he said since new tests introduced the rival team did modifications and they seeing them "on-par" with them, so no protest this weekend. I wonder if this pegged merc back a bit with the rear suspension/wing efficiency which now limits the top speed a little.

There is no new test introduced, that's a lie Horner has been saying since qatar.

The new test was only seen in Qatar as a test for 2022... and everyone cleared it.

He is just gaslighting everything.

And please show data where merc has limited their top speed...again lies from Horner

[mstar]

Horner said something interesting he said since new tests introduced the rival team did modifications and they seeing them "on-par" with them, so no protest this weekend. I wonder if this pegged merc back a bit with the rear suspension/wing efficiency which now limits the top speed a little.

There is no new test introduced, that's a lie Horner has been saying since qatar.

The new test was only seen in Qatar as a test for 2022... and everyone cleared it.

He is just gaslighting everything.

And please show data where merc has limited their top speed...again lies from Horner

Exactly. The tests where evaluation for next year. I am a little confused Horner is going around saying this (unless there was a secret memo to teams to stiff the rear wing and we not told of).

I think its all down to set-up to get the suspension/wing mechanism to work. In turkey/brazil it worked a dream as its circuit dependant.