2021 AMG Mercedes F1 Team

[basti313]

What Mercedes isn't going to do is threaten to pull out of F1. That's just an absolutely laughable theory.

Absolutely. Merc would have pulled the plug if there would have been any fiddling with the split turbo loophole. As long as they have it they stay and will win. So I do not understand the anger now.

[Ryar]

Are Mercedes not planning on executing a succession plan for the likes of Toto, Vowels, Shovlin, Meadows? With cost cap coming in, they have to adjust their headcount and like in Allison's case, they can put most of these guys back in office and let their successors do the job. Strategy and Trackside operations haven't really been upto the mark and if not for the factory guys at Brackley (less so with Brixworth due to the reliability issues across the factory and customer teams) producing some upgrades, they would have been under far more dire situation.

[Jambier]

Toto is an owner of the team, and one of the reason for the 8 titles
Getting rid of toto is like suicide, this is the worst thing Mercedes could do.

World title is won this year, next year there is the "future" of Mercedes coming (Russel) and Toto will need to be there to manage this

[NL_Fer]

I see Mercedes leave before Toto does.

[Jambier]

I see Mercedes leave before Toto does.

If I'm correct the team is 33% Toto, 33% Ineos and 33% Mercedes ?

So yes indeed, Toto could stay even with an "Ineos F1 Team powered by AMG"

[Phil]

What surprises me most still is that MB did not pit Lewis during the safety car. What did they have to lose? If max did not pit, then Lewis should easily have passed Max on nearly new softs, and if both switched to soft Lewis should have been able to stay ahead. The only 'risk' was if Max stayed out and there was no restart, but with Masi it seemed to be a decent bet that he wants the race to end in flight. There's a lot to say about the whole SC procedure, but I can't help but think that MB did themselves no favors with this call.

If they had done that and conceded track position and then lost the WDC because of it, they’d have looked pretty stupid.

It was a no win situation either way. Well, it wasnt. The calamity is, that the team made its decision based on the process required by the rules and how much time that would take in their assessment - that being, getting the track cleaned up and allowing all lapped cars to unlap and then that the safety car would come in at the end of the next lap.

The math was solid. They did everything right. Had the crash happened two laps earlier, they would have come in, i’m sure - though after Jeddah, a potential red flag may have given an unfair advantage again to Max.

In the end, my issue with the whole thing isn’t Max, it isnt RedBull - it’s the sport that is putting entertainment first and sacrificing sporting values for it.

It must feel good to be a Max fan after yesterday - but had the roles been reversed, we’d never hear the end of it. This shows the issue when putting entertainment first. You are subjecting your sport to being a lottery and while some fans might like the unpredictability of such results, you’re devaluing the achievements and end up with hollow victories.

It devalued Hamiltons masterful drive yesterday in favour of a one lap race with one car on fresh tires and the other on old ones all in the name of “the show”.

At this point, from Hamiltons point of view, i wouldnt be surprised if he walks.

[basti313]

I see Mercedes leave before Toto does.

If I'm correct the team is 33% Toto, 33% Ineos and 33% Mercedes ?

So yes indeed, Toto could stay even with an "Ineos F1 Team powered by AMG"

I would rather expect that Toto takes a high role at AMG.
Furthermore...there is one red line:
Merc supports any racing series where they find the loophole to win. If there is no loophole they pull back. This started years ago in LeMans and was clearly visible in DTM and FormulaE this year.
In this regard I see no issue in F1 and given that DTM closed the loophole (at least partially) I see F1 as the only racing series Merc is competing in the future. With cost cap, this is the most efficient marketing.

[DChemTech]

What surprises me most still is that MB did not pit Lewis during the safety car. What did they have to lose? If max did not pit, then Lewis should easily have passed Max on nearly new softs, and if both switched to soft Lewis should have been able to stay ahead. The only 'risk' was if Max stayed out and there was no restart, but with Masi it seemed to be a decent bet that he wants the race to end in flight. There's a lot to say about the whole SC procedure, but I can't help but think that MB did themselves no favors with this call.

If they had done that and conceded track position and then lost the WDC because of it, they’d have looked pretty stupid.

It was a no win situation either way. Well, it wasnt. The calamity is, that the team made its decision based on the process required by the rules and how much time that would take in their assessment - that being, getting the track cleaned up and allowing all lapped cars to unlap and then that the safety car would come in at the end of the next lap.

The math was solid. They did everything right. Had the crash happened two laps earlier, they would have come in, i’m sure - though after Jeddah, a potential red flag may have given an unfair advantage again to Max.

In the end, my issue with the whole thing isn’t Max, it isnt RedBull - it’s the sport that is putting entertainment first and sacrificing sporting values for it.

It must feel good to be a Max fan after yesterday - but had the roles been reversed, we’d never hear the end of it. This shows the issue when putting entertainment first. You are subjecting your sport to being a lottery and while some fans might like the unpredictability of such results, you’re devaluing the achievements and end up with hollow victories.

It devalued Hamiltons masterful drive yesterday in favour of a one lap race with one car on fresh tires and the other on old ones all in the name of “the show”.

At this point, from Hamiltons point of view, i wouldnt be surprised if he walks.

I agree on the entertainment first part, and in that sense, it didn't feel all good to be a Max fan yesterday. I do feel sorry for the way things were settled. Not just this one particular race, but the whole season. There have been disputable calls throughout, that in some case benefited one team and in the other case the other. So in that sense, I cannot call this one disputable moment the 'definitive moment that handed the championship to Max' - had it not happened and had Lewis won, other such moments could be brought forward. Whichever way the coin fell, there were plenty of justified statements on "well, in the end, it was FIA/steward decision X that handed the championship to team Y" that one could make this season - there would always be dispute. And that makes this season, for as entertaining and climactic as it was, tarnished as well. Shame, really, and I hope that in the future things will be better in that regard.

[Phil]

I'll just say to that DChemTech, that I don't agree with the sprint races, I don't agree with the red-flag and standing restarts one bit. Yes, they are there, by the rules to allow that sort of thing, but *I* don't like it - knowing full well, Lewis could (should) have profited of that very thing in Baku this year.

Where it stops, is where the race director throws all that out of the window and makes up new rules as it happens. There's no way I think this can put to rest in my eyes. Over the course of the year, yes, perhaps Max & RedBull is more deserving of the title. They maximized points they really shouldn't have and in my personal opinion, they've aced far more opportunities than Mercedes did. On some occasions, it was just luck of the draw too.

In that sense, maybe yesterday was too - but given how protocol was thrown out the window, it's not the kind of sport I'm proud of in the slightest. It feels like an utter sham and in my eyes, devalues the great achievement of Max (and Hamilton) over the entire course of 2021.

It's rather funny - in hindsight, when Perez blocked Hamilton and lost him around a 9 second, was really detrimental to Max's win. Had Hamilton had that in hand, it would have shaped the race very different - he would have had the delta to come in without losing position to Max.

[Juzh]

though after Jeddah, a potential red flag may have given an unfair advantage again to Max.

You mean that same unfair advantage hamilton enjoyed in Imola, allowing him to score 18 points instead of realistic maximum of 6? Season is 22 races, not just the last few ones.

[Jambier]

I see Mercedes leave before Toto does.

If I'm correct the team is 33% Toto, 33% Ineos and 33% Mercedes ?

So yes indeed, Toto could stay even with an "Ineos F1 Team powered by AMG"

I see F1 as the only racing series Merc is competing in the future. With cost cap, this is the most efficient marketing.

Even more than that: With sponsors, Ineos etc... it basically costs Mercedes... 0 euros to be in Formula1, they would be crazy to leave it

[banibhusan]

If they had done that and conceded track position and then lost the WDC because of it, they’d have looked pretty stupid.

It was a no win situation either way. Well, it wasnt. The calamity is, that the team made its decision based on the process required by the rules and how much time that would take in their assessment - that being, getting the track cleaned up and allowing all lapped cars to unlap and then that the safety car would come in at the end of the next lap.

Indeed. There is nothing else that Mercedes could have done differently yesterday in terms of strategy. But yesterday's farce has now set a new precedence that the director can play around with the rules whenever he wants. I am just curious if this situation plays into everybody's mind next year when there is a SC. Do they just call up Masi asking, "Hey. What do you plan to do with the SC this time?" and Masi replies, "I'll do what I want. You'll see.".

[Jambier]

This year was special, there is nothing that guarantee that we will have soon a so close season.
Probably not.

So until the next season like 2021 it will just be business as usual

[DChemTech]

I'll just say to that DChemTech, that I don't agree with the sprint races, I don't agree with the red-flag and standing restarts one bit. Yes, they are there, by the rules to allow that sort of thing, but *I* don't like it - knowing full well, Lewis could (should) have profited of that very thing in Baku this year.

Where it stops, is where the race director throws all that out of the window and makes up new rules as it happens. There's no way I think this can put to rest in my eyes. Over the course of the year, yes, perhaps Max & RedBull is more deserving of the title. They maximized points they really shouldn't have and in my personal opinion, they've aced far more opportunities than Mercedes did. On some occasions, it was just luck of the draw too.

In that sense, maybe yesterday was too - but given how protocol was thrown out the window, it's not the kind of sport I'm proud of in the slightest. It feels like an utter sham and in my eyes, devalues the great achievement of Max (and Hamilton) over the entire course of 2021.

It's rather funny - in hindsight, when Perez blocked Hamilton and lost him around a 9 second, was really detrimental to Max's win. Had Hamilton had that in hand, it would have shaped the race very different - he would have had the delta to come in without losing position to Max.

Yeah, too many experiments like sprint races as well that introduced uncertainty.

As for the title, save Jeddah, I do think Max was the deserving one. He managed to bright that car to it's absolute maximum performance almost consistently. While Lewis was on it mainly in the second part of the season, he was less consistent initially. On the other hand, MB fully deserved WCC. It's impressive how they managed to get the car 'back on track' in the second half of the season and produce a beast once again. Some decisions (like the change in tire sidewall) may have aided, but that doesn't change the achievement.

[Odyssey]

I feel massively sorry for Lewis and Mercedes they didnt deserve this result. As an addicted watcher of F1 for 40 years I kind of go with the Murray Walker maxim of "anything can happen and it usually does!" This isn't the first controversy in F1 and it won't be the last. For me it's all part of what makes F1 unique and so addictive BUT!!!!!

Looking at this from a commercial POV in the context of how much all sports nowadays are packaged as 'The Show', next years new cars, the Netflix series and the increased viewing figures for this year made this a massively important event for the future of F1. Liberty and the FIA clearly and to be fair to them understandably wanted this season to finish with a grandstand on track racing result. I dont think that there was any preference as to who won the championship as either result is great for the sport, as long as it happened on track under green flag racing.
The thing that I just cant understand is that probably one of the worst case scenarios for 'the show' was the race finishing behind a safety car and yet neither the FIA or Liberty seem to have put any thought into how that scenario would be handled.
Massi and a representation from Liberty should have sat down in private with Mercedes and Red Bull and agreed upon how certain scenarios that might unfold would be handled and then published these as pre race notes for the weekend. You cant cover every scenario, but a safety car is hardly an unusual occurence especially near the end of a race due to reliability etc, so why not, for such an important and potentially controversial chamionship decider, have a pre race agreement to red flag the race if a SC was thrown in the last say 10 / 15 laps, as a pre race agreemant this would eliminate any accusations of bias and would have set up the perfect grandstand shoot out, instead Massi's botched attempt to think on his feet as the situation unfolded in real time has now created the very situation they were so desperate to avoid.

It's a shame for Lewis and potentiall even more so for Max that the championship decider went this way and with some common sense and cooperative engagement from the FIA with the 2 teams involved it could have been avoided.