2021 Abu Dhabi Grand Prix - Yas Marina, Dec 10 - 12

[TimW]

Isn't there a difference between discussing a topic and repeating 10 pages 20 times of a dead lock scenario?

It is misunderstanding as in 'disagreement' not as in '
What the FIA announced today, is new and thus makes some of the previous discussions outdated.

FIA's announcment, as outlined below, is a retrospective exercise to improve the future events and clarify the misunderstanding. Yeah, misunderstanding. It doesn't necessarily mean, either FIA agrees someone has been wronged or that this exercise that it is planning, would have an impact on the results of concluded event. There is no timeline set for this exercise to either start or end, atleast as per the announcement. So, this doesn't sound like having any bearing on what is being anticipated by fans. That still leaves my point on the table regarding repitation of 10 pages 20 times, without any new information that has the possibility of altering the past.

“The circumstances surrounding the use of the Safety Car following the incident of driver Nicholas Latifi, and the related communications between the FIA Race Direction team and the Formula 1 teams, have notably generated significant misunderstanding and reactions from Formula 1 teams, drivers and fans – an argument that is currently tarnishing the image of the Championship and the due celebration of the first Drivers’ World Championship title won by Max Verstappen and the eighth consecutive Constructors’ World Championship title won by Mercedes.

“Following the presentation of a report regarding the sequence of events that took place following the incident on lap 53 of the grand prix and in a constant drive for improvement, the FIA President proposed to the World Motor Sport Council that a detailed analysis and clarification exercise for the future with all relevant parties will now take place.

“This matter will be discussed and addressed with all the teams and drivers to draw any lessons from this situation and clarity to be provided to the participants, media and fans about the current regulations to preserve the competitive nature of our sport while ensuring the safety of the drivers and officials.

“It is not only Formula 1 that may benefit from this analysis but also more generally all the other FIA circuit championships.

“Following that presentation and an extensive discussion, the World Council has decided to unanimously support the President’s proposal.

“The FIA will therefore do its utmost to have this in motion within the Formula 1 governance and will propose to the Formula 1 Commission to give a clear mandate for study and proposal to the Sporting Advisory Committee, with the support of Formula 1 drivers, so any identified meaningful feedback and conclusions be made before the beginning of the 2022 season.”

It is misunderstanding as in 'disagreement or quarrel' , not as failure to understand. We have 180 pages of disagreement here, so I think the FIA got that one right.

[F1NAC]

I would need to look at the Latifi crash again to determine if he binned it on purpose.

Are you serious?

Are we going to do same to him as many of people did to Glock? I mean... It is not like he binned it in some random easy corner. He binned it in a tricky corner where crashes had already happened during weekend, even in testing....

Latifi's name shouldn't even be mentioned in whole this shitshow that happened at the end.

[Stu]

It would be fair to say that at the top levels of motorsport ‘the tail wags the dog’ to a large degree. What we have heard this year is the sheer amount of lobbying to the race director (and in some instances attempt to communicate with the stewards directly DURING the competition) in order to influence the race result. Michael Masi is in a position where he is
a) gatekeeper to the stewards
b) in charge of safety on track, be that marshals, drivers or pit-crew
c) in charge of race procedure
d) probably several other things that are unseen

Is it any wonder that decisions made ‘on-the-hoof’ are occasionally incorrect? Be fair to the guy, that is multiple jobs within one role!
The FIA rule-book is 90% based on reacting to things that have been tried, but upset someone in some way.
If everyone ‘hates’ Michael Masi, he is probably getting the balance about right (poor call or no).
And finally, ‘hate’….
Such a pejorative term, the anonymity of the internet allows people to get vexed and hate because of something that doesn’t directly affect them, fanning the flames and sending conversations (that if held face-to-face would result in agreeing to disagree) into Dante’s Inferno.

[Roo]

It is misunderstanding as in 'disagreement or quarrel' , not as failure to understand. We have 180 pages of disagreement here, so I think the FIA got that one right.

It implies that no-one other than the RD and the FIA president understands, and doesn’t explain why everyone else doesn’t understand.

I’m not sure how it can be concluded the FIA is right. They hid who was involved behind titles and language, and pointed fingers externally.

[Tvetovnato]

Bad luck when the sporting regulations are followed is one thing. Tyre blowouts and racing incidents will always happen, and over a season things tend to even out more or less. If they don’t, then tough luck. However, there is no luck or karma involved when race control decides to break their own rules. It’s cheating. And Red Bull had no gamble to make, since there was no other option than to pit for fresh tyres since they had nothing to lose by doing so. He was allowed to fight Hamilton on one lap old softs compared to 40 lap old hards. Maldonado could jump into the car and make that move stick without practice. There is no contest. Red Bull were gifted a race they had no business winning, since they were nowhere on pace compared to Hamiton, and had the SC rules been followed, there would be no chance for them. I can’t understand how it can ”feel right” with such an obvious staging of a race, no matter what side you are on.

Maldonado has nothing to do with this, yes it was a gamble, and who are you accusing of cheating? It was tough luck, but just not for Max. It's not Max's fault Hamilton was on old hards, that's his team's decision! There was an element of risk vs reward and Mercedes quite honestly chickened out. If they had fitted softs for Hamilton his superior pace surely would have seen him win. Sometimes it isn't the fastest car that wins and we've seen that all season. For Mercedes it was disaster-class!

I am accusing the FIA for cheating, which they did. Mercedes had no way of pitting, since they would have to give up track position, which you don’t do in that situation. But discussing strategy in this race is quite meaningless and only deflecting, since the tyre offset in the end should not even had made a difference had the rules been applied properly. They weren’t, since the FIA wanted a show rather than a sport.

[sosic2121]

Maldonado has nothing to do with this, yes it was a gamble, and who are you accusing of cheating? It was tough luck, but just not for Max. It's not Max's fault Hamilton was on old hards, that's his team's decision! There was an element of risk vs reward and Mercedes quite honestly chickened out. If they had fitted softs for Hamilton his superior pace surely would have seen him win. Sometimes it isn't the fastest car that wins and we've seen that all season. For Mercedes it was disaster-class!

We’ve been over this, if merc pitted Red Bull would’ve stayed out, then it would of finished under a sc and looked like fools for giving up track position

Perfect. If Mercedes pitted, RB stayed out... the race will finish under safety care. Then the RB will say all the rules are followed.

I bet the incident caused by Williams, may be pre planned.

Any way RB and MAX will get the WDC whatever out come of the race. It is "Match Fixed" well in advance.

Which one? Abu Dhabi or Imola?

One the other hand, does he still own Williams shares?

[ispano6]

We’ve been over this, if merc pitted Red Bull would’ve stayed out, then it would of finished under a sc and looked like fools for giving up track position

Perfect. If Mercedes pitted, RB stayed out... the race will finish under safety care. Then the RB will say all the rules are followed.

I bet the incident caused by Williams, may be pre planned.

Any way RB and MAX will get the WDC whatever out come of the race. It is "Match Fixed" well in advance.

I just don't believe in a conspiracy. It's much more likely to be 'Hanlon's Razor'. Masi --- up, all the holes in the swiss cheese lined up, and we got a disaster. It is just a question of 'what now'?

Max: "Here Mick, take this banana".
Mick: "but you've already eaten it?"
Max: "You want Lewis to beat your dad's record?"
Mick: "I'll use it on lap 51".

[sosic2121]

Not from me, I would have liked to see Sainz win!

As soon as Mercedes followed Red Bulls lead by putting earlier than they needed to they ended up condemning LH to a race where he couldn’t get the lead that he needed; MV was ALWAYS in his pit-window.

Do you know what what was time lost in pit under sc? How close was Lewis to free pitstop?

[ispano6]

I am accusing the FIA for cheating, which they did. Mercedes had no way of pitting, since they would have to give up track position, which you don’t do in that situation. But discussing strategy in this race is quite meaningless and only deflecting, since the tyre offset in the end should not even had made a difference had the rules been applied properly. They weren’t, since the FIA wanted a show rather than a sport.

You seem to misunderstand the rules. Race director has overriding decision. The wording says that once the last lapped car passes the safety car that it is to come in the next lap. Well, not all lapped cars actually passed the safety car so the safety car technically can come in at the end of that lap. The point of the safety car period is for the safety of the crew cleaning up the wreck, which was completed. It isn't to ensure that the race leader wins with the race under yellow. It was green flag conditions and race control called in the safety car and green flagged the race because there was no longer a hazard on the track but not enough space for the entire field to unlap themselves. The issue you have is that the cars between Ham and Max were let through and Max was on better tyres. It was the right decision to let them race. Ham could have told his team to pit him for fresh tires, but his team insisted on track position. You are the one deflecting this key decision.

[Spoutnik]

Not from me, I would have liked to see Sainz win!

As soon as Mercedes followed Red Bulls lead by putting earlier than they needed to they ended up condemning LH to a race where he couldn’t get the lead that he needed; MV was ALWAYS in his pit-window.

Do you know what what was time lost in pit under sc? How close was Lewis to free pitstop?

Apparently it was 13-15sec, the gap to Verstappen was 11.5 sec when the incident occured.

On the full radio transcription Hamilton is asking Bono "why we're not pitting", his answer is "we'll lose track position" and later "it may not restart".

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[Tom145145]

I am accusing the FIA for cheating, which they did. Mercedes had no way of pitting, since they would have to give up track position, which you don’t do in that situation. But discussing strategy in this race is quite meaningless and only deflecting, since the tyre offset in the end should not even had made a difference had the rules been applied properly. They weren’t, since the FIA wanted a show rather than a sport.

You seem to misunderstand the rules. Race director has overriding decision. The wording says that once the last lapped car passes the safety car that it is to come in the next lap. Well, not all lapped cars actually passed the safety car so the safety car technically can come in at the end of that lap. The point of the safety car period is for the safety of the crew cleaning up the wreck, which was completed. It isn't to ensure that the race leader wins with the race under yellow. It was green flag conditions and race control called in the safety car and green flagged the race because there was no longer a hazard on the track but not enough space for the entire field to unlap themselves. The issue you have is that the cars between Ham and Max were let through and Max was on better tyres. It was the right decision to let them race. Ham could have told his team to pit him for fresh tires, but his team insisted on track position. You are the one deflecting this key decision.

That’s fine then the FIA will have no problem in the Appeal. But I disagree.

[sosic2121]

Not from me, I would have liked to see Sainz win!

As soon as Mercedes followed Red Bulls lead by putting earlier than they needed to they ended up condemning LH to a race where he couldn’t get the lead that he needed; MV was ALWAYS in his pit-window.

Do you know what what was time lost in pit under sc? How close was Lewis to free pitstop?

Apparently it was 13-15sec, the gap to Verstappen was 11.5 sec when the incident occured.

On the full radio transcription Hamilton is asking Bono "why we're not pitting", his answer is "we'll lose track position" and later "it may not restart".

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Thank you for your effort!

Wow it was so close. Stu is rig. So many things came together for Verstappen to win, including Mercedes reacting to Max pitting.
But also VSC without which Max would probably drop off, and Perez doing incredible job holding up Lewis.

[Starkblood80]

I am accusing the FIA for cheating, which they did. Mercedes had no way of pitting, since they would have to give up track position, which you don’t do in that situation. But discussing strategy in this race is quite meaningless and only deflecting, since the tyre offset in the end should not even had made a difference had the rules been applied properly. They weren’t, since the FIA wanted a show rather than a sport.

You seem to misunderstand the rules. Race director has overriding decision. The wording says that once the last lapped car passes the safety car that it is to come in the next lap. Well, not all lapped cars actually passed the safety car so the safety car technically can come in at the end of that lap. The point of the safety car period is for the safety of the crew cleaning up the wreck, which was completed. It isn't to ensure that the race leader wins with the race under yellow. It was green flag conditions and race control called in the safety car and green flagged the race because there was no longer a hazard on the track but not enough space for the entire field to unlap themselves. The issue you have is that the cars between Ham and Max were let through and Max was on better tyres. It was the right decision to let them race. Ham could have told his team to pit him for fresh tires, but his team insisted on track position. You are the one deflecting this key decision.

The safety car came in the same lap, not the next lap.

[cheeRS]

I am accusing the FIA for cheating, which they did. Mercedes had no way of pitting, since they would have to give up track position, which you don’t do in that situation. But discussing strategy in this race is quite meaningless and only deflecting, since the tyre offset in the end should not even had made a difference had the rules been applied properly. They weren’t, since the FIA wanted a show rather than a sport.

You seem to misunderstand the rules. Race director has overriding decision. The wording says that once the last lapped car passes the safety car that it is to come in the next lap. Well, not all lapped cars actually passed the safety car so the safety car technically can come in at the end of that lap. The point of the safety car period is for the safety of the crew cleaning up the wreck, which was completed. It isn't to ensure that the race leader wins with the race under yellow. It was green flag conditions and race control called in the safety car and green flagged the race because there was no longer a hazard on the track but not enough space for the entire field to unlap themselves. The issue you have is that the cars between Ham and Max were let through and Max was on better tyres. It was the right decision to let them race. Ham could have told his team to pit him for fresh tires, but his team insisted on track position. You are the one deflecting this key decision.

The safety car came in the same lap, not the next lap.

Exactly. The same lap, not the following lap. It was basically “let a few cars unlap themselves OK 1-2-3 go!” It was farcical.

[basti313]

Do you know what what was time lost in pit under sc? How close was Lewis to free pitstop?

Apparently it was 13-15sec, the gap to Verstappen was 11.5 sec when the incident occured.

On the full radio transcription Hamilton is asking Bono "why we're not pitting", his answer is "we'll lose track position" and later "it may not restart".

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Thank you for your effort!

Wow it was so close. Stu is rig. So many things came together for Verstappen to win, including Mercedes reacting to Max pitting.
But also VSC without which Max would probably drop off, and Perez doing incredible job holding up Lewis.

So is the VSC also part of the conspiracy? I understand how RedBull got Latifi to crash for them, but where is the connection to the Alfas who tried twice to get a VSC?