Honda F1 project leader Yusuke Hasegawa has outlined a number of reasons why Honda has been struggling so badly in the beginning of the 2017 Formula One season. He confirmed that lots of problems were not discovered while running on the dynamo meter.
Even if we assume mercedes has fully legal pu (which is I don't believe) and if their pu is most powerfull, it is seen during this season that their engine has not much power gap compared to honda. Some of the races in the season maybe honda was a bit better as power. At the end it is not only power thing and when we think it as a package, I think this true approach, honda was best pu over there this season.
Some people whome has locked head to past, they should leave it because according to their locked to past head mercedes should get wdc to it's driver, mercedes is still best. But in real world they has only power advantage there and I highly suspect it comes from a legal pu.
Even if we assume mercedes has fully legal pu (which is I don't believe) and if their pu is most powerfull, it is seen during this season that their engine has not much power gap compared to honda. Some of the races in the season maybe honda was a bit better as power. At the end it is not only power thing and when we think it as a package, I think this true approach, honda was best pu over there this season.
Some people whome has locked head to past, they should leave it because according to their locked to past head mercedes should get wdc to it's driver, mercedes is still best. But in real world they has only power advantage there and I highly suspect it comes from a legal pu.
The stalled diffusor trick must not be underestimated. The Merc ICE was unreliable (mileage loss of power) and the whole PU wasn't more powerful. It worked beautifully on some tracks (with new PU) such as Brazil, Turkey... and also Sochi (without any new component and not a low DF setup), idk why but i was unnoticed :
A beautiful Saturday afternoon. I want to say thank you to those who offered words of kindness during some difficult times and also words of encouragement as we continued our F1 journey. Whether Max or Lewis had won the WDC this year, I am very proud of what Honda and our “skunkworks” team has accomplished over the past seven years. I knew this day would come when we started this latest F1 project as it was estimated to be no more than an 8 to 10 year project.
I am really ready to retire now as well everyone on our unofficial team. I lost a dear friend of mine last year whose idea it was to form this team and help HRD with the F1 program after the terrible start in 2015. I am grateful to Toro Rosso, Red Bull and McLaren for allowing Honda to put their PU behind their drivers. It was my friend who convinced me to “get my head out of the clouds and put it to good use” and join this team. He had been with Honda since 1973 and was my mentor when I first joined Honda about forty years ago. I will never forget when we walked into HRD in Sakura the first day this last go-around and realized that we were on average over 30 years older than the rest of the engineers and staff there. I have seen “Old guys rule” T-shirts and bumper stickers in the U.S. and I think I know what I will buy my fellow team members for Christmas.
There were many internal obstacles and external influences that had to be overcome to get the 621 PU built the way we wanted it and to get it on the track this season knowing that this would be Honda’s last official year in F1. Fortunately we had some key proponents and an open-minded president willing to take on one on one meetings with people like myself to hear our side of the story. There were some key people against some or all of our ideas. The camshaft relocation and piston redesign were big changes that met opposition. Other challenges were changing the firing order to try and minimize exhaust pulses going into the turbine and convincing some people to get the Honda/GE jet engine people involved in development of the turbo. I think I have mentioned it here also that the blade/vane design of the turbine and compressor in the turbo are more important than the physical size itself. Luckily an old college mate of mine at Nagoya University was a key contributor to the “Kumamoto plating” process that was implemented to increase reliability of the cylinders and rings. This process is not a secret as some seem to think as it is patented and well published but it was his suggestion to use it on the F1 PU. Lastly redesigning the block so that the cylinder #1 is on the right hand side was also met with opposition because “You know, the #1 cylinder should be on the left hand side”….So needless to say, it has been quite the journey. We knew Mercedes was the bar. They build wonderful, beautiful pieces of machinery. The W12 is an excellent car. The 16B was also a big improvement over last year’s car but we knew we had to at least match the Mercedes PU with regards to power and reliability to give the 16B a fighting chance to compete and I think we accomplished that this year. Red Bull never gave up as they constantly brought upgrades this season. Not all of them worked as planned but they never quit nor did we. Also a big thanks to Mobil. The fuel and lubricants they developed for us was a significant factor to our progress.
One thing I want to mention is that sometimes we take for granted what is around us for inspiration. Since I grew up near Mishima city in Shizuoka-ken, my family would take many day trips to Hakone and since I was a baby, I must have seen Mt. Fuji from Hakone literally thousands and thousands of times. The view from Hakone and Lake Kawaguchi are my favorite. I could stare at Fuji-san and never get tired of her profile. Fuji-san was the inspiration for the piston crown. The slope, the crater, etc. nature’s gift to machinery. Funny and mysterious the way things work.
Next year Red Bull will be fine. I have spent a lot of time in Milton Keynes the first half of this year and the investment Red Bull has put into their PU division is impressive. The facility they built is first class and they have hired key Honda staff for this transition. Although Honda’s name will not be on the PU, it is a Honda. It will still be manufactured and assembled by Honda for at least another year. So I am not worried about next year. Again thank you again for all your support and congratulations to everyone at Red Bull and Max for the fine job. I would like people to remember that the WCC and WDC are not determined by one race but an accumulation of points won over 22 races determines the winner. In my opinion both Red Bull and Mercedes were both lucky and unlucky throughout the season. I will not miss the ugly politics of F1 and a big part of me is relieved that I am no longer at part of this circus. I wish everyone a Happy Holidays and Happy New Year. Be safe and good to yourself and fellow human.
“If Honda does not race, there is no Honda.”
“Success represents the 1% of your work which results from the 99% that is called failure.”
A beautiful Saturday afternoon. I want to say thank you to those who offered words of kindness during some difficult times and also words of encouragement as we continued our F1 journey. Whether Max or Lewis had won the WDC this year, I am very proud of what Honda and our “skunkworks” team has accomplished over the past seven years. I knew this day would come when we started this latest F1 project as it was estimated to be no more than an 8 to 10 year project.
I am really ready to retire now as well everyone on our unofficial team. I lost a dear friend of mine last year whose idea it was to form this team and help HRD with the F1 program after the terrible start in 2015. I am grateful to Toro Rosso, Red Bull and McLaren for allowing Honda to put their PU behind their drivers. It was my friend who convinced me to “get my head out of the clouds and put it to good use” and join this team. He had been with Honda since 1973 and was my mentor when I first joined Honda about forty years ago. I will never forget when we walked into HRD in Sakura the first day this last go-around and realized that we were on average over 30 years older than the rest of the engineers and staff there. I have seen “Old guys rule” T-shirts and bumper stickers in the U.S. and I think I know what I will buy my fellow team members for Christmas.
There were many internal obstacles and external influences that had to be overcome to get the 621 PU built the way we wanted it and to get it on the track this season knowing that this would be Honda’s last official year in F1. Fortunately we had some key proponents and an open-minded president willing to take on one on one meetings with people like myself to hear our side of the story. There were some key people against some or all of our ideas. The camshaft relocation and piston redesign were big changes that met opposition. Other challenges were changing the firing order to try and minimize exhaust pulses going into the turbine and convincing some people to get the Honda/GE jet engine people involved in development of the turbo. I think I have mentioned it here also that the blade/vane design of the turbine and compressor in the turbo are more important than the physical size itself. Luckily an old college mate of mine at Nagoya University was a key contributor to the “Kumamoto plating” process that was implemented to increase reliability of the cylinders and rings. This process is not a secret as some seem to think as it is patented and well published but it was his suggestion to use it on the F1 PU. Lastly redesigning the block so that the cylinder #1 is on the right hand side was also met with opposition because “You know, the #1 cylinder should be on the left hand side”….So needless to say, it has been quite the journey. We knew Mercedes was the bar. They build wonderful, beautiful pieces of machinery. The W12 is an excellent car. The 16B was also a big improvement over last year’s car but we knew we had to at least match the Mercedes PU with regards to power and reliability to give the 16B a fighting chance to compete and I think we accomplished that this year. Red Bull never gave up as they constantly brought upgrades this season. Not all of them worked as planned but they never quit nor did we. Also a big thanks to Mobil. The fuel and lubricants they developed for us was a significant factor to our progress.
One thing I want to mention is that sometimes we take for granted what is around us for inspiration. Since I grew up near Mishima city in Shizuoka-ken, my family would take many day trips to Hakone and since I was a baby, I must have seen Mt. Fuji from Hakone literally thousands and thousands of times. The view from Hakone and Lake Kawaguchi are my favorite. I could stare at Fuji-san and never get tired of her profile. Fuji-san was the inspiration for the piston crown. The slope, the crater, etc. nature’s gift to machinery. Funny and mysterious the way things work.
Next year Red Bull will be fine. I have spent a lot of time in Milton Keynes the first half of this year and the investment Red Bull has put into their PU division is impressive. The facility they built is first class and they have hired key Honda staff for this transition. Although Honda’s name will not be on the PU, it is a Honda. It will still be manufactured and assembled by Honda for at least another year. So I am not worried about next year. Again thank you again for all your support and congratulations to everyone at Red Bull and Max for the fine job. I would like people to remember that the WCC and WDC are not determined by one race but an accumulation of points won over 22 races determines the winner. In my opinion both Red Bull and Mercedes were both lucky and unlucky throughout the season. I will not miss the ugly politics of F1 and a big part of me is relieved that I am no longer at part of this circus. I wish everyone a Happy Holidays and Happy New Year. Be safe and good to yourself and fellow human.
I WISH U THE BEST FROM ITALY. Maybe tour are the most important reference for me in this forum,.since I had opportunity to read your posts. Happy new year
A beautiful Saturday afternoon. I want to say thank you to those who offered words of kindness during some difficult times and also words of encouragement as we continued our F1 journey. Whether Max or Lewis had won the WDC this year, I am very proud of what Honda and our “skunkworks” team has accomplished over the past seven years. I knew this day would come when we started this latest F1 project as it was estimated to be no more than an 8 to 10 year project.
I am really ready to retire now as well everyone on our unofficial team. I lost a dear friend of mine last year whose idea it was to form this team and help HRD with the F1 program after the terrible start in 2015. I am grateful to Toro Rosso, Red Bull and McLaren for allowing Honda to put their PU behind their drivers. It was my friend who convinced me to “get my head out of the clouds and put it to good use” and join this team. He had been with Honda since 1973 and was my mentor when I first joined Honda about forty years ago. I will never forget when we walked into HRD in Sakura the first day this last go-around and realized that we were on average over 30 years older than the rest of the engineers and staff there. I have seen “Old guys rule” T-shirts and bumper stickers in the U.S. and I think I know what I will buy my fellow team members for Christmas.
There were many internal obstacles and external influences that had to be overcome to get the 621 PU built the way we wanted it and to get it on the track this season knowing that this would be Honda’s last official year in F1. Fortunately we had some key proponents and an open-minded president willing to take on one on one meetings with people like myself to hear our side of the story. There were some key people against some or all of our ideas. The camshaft relocation and piston redesign were big changes that met opposition. Other challenges were changing the firing order to try and minimize exhaust pulses going into the turbine and convincing some people to get the Honda/GE jet engine people involved in development of the turbo. I think I have mentioned it here also that the blade/vane design of the turbine and compressor in the turbo are more important than the physical size itself. Luckily an old college mate of mine at Nagoya University was a key contributor to the “Kumamoto plating” process that was implemented to increase reliability of the cylinders and rings. This process is not a secret as some seem to think as it is patented and well published but it was his suggestion to use it on the F1 PU. Lastly redesigning the block so that the cylinder #1 is on the right hand side was also met with opposition because “You know, the #1 cylinder should be on the left hand side”….So needless to say, it has been quite the journey. We knew Mercedes was the bar. They build wonderful, beautiful pieces of machinery. The W12 is an excellent car. The 16B was also a big improvement over last year’s car but we knew we had to at least match the Mercedes PU with regards to power and reliability to give the 16B a fighting chance to compete and I think we accomplished that this year. Red Bull never gave up as they constantly brought upgrades this season. Not all of them worked as planned but they never quit nor did we. Also a big thanks to Mobil. The fuel and lubricants they developed for us was a significant factor to our progress.
One thing I want to mention is that sometimes we take for granted what is around us for inspiration. Since I grew up near Mishima city in Shizuoka-ken, my family would take many day trips to Hakone and since I was a baby, I must have seen Mt. Fuji from Hakone literally thousands and thousands of times. The view from Hakone and Lake Kawaguchi are my favorite. I could stare at Fuji-san and never get tired of her profile. Fuji-san was the inspiration for the piston crown. The slope, the crater, etc. nature’s gift to machinery. Funny and mysterious the way things work.
Next year Red Bull will be fine. I have spent a lot of time in Milton Keynes the first half of this year and the investment Red Bull has put into their PU division is impressive. The facility they built is first class and they have hired key Honda staff for this transition. Although Honda’s name will not be on the PU, it is a Honda. It will still be manufactured and assembled by Honda for at least another year. So I am not worried about next year. Again thank you again for all your support and congratulations to everyone at Red Bull and Max for the fine job. I would like people to remember that the WCC and WDC are not determined by one race but an accumulation of points won over 22 races determines the winner. In my opinion both Red Bull and Mercedes were both lucky and unlucky throughout the season. I will not miss the ugly politics of F1 and a big part of me is relieved that I am no longer at part of this circus. I wish everyone a Happy Holidays and Happy New Year. Be safe and good to yourself and fellow human.
I WISH U THE BEST FROM ITALY. Maybe tour are the most important reference for me in this forum,.since I had opportunity to read your posts. Happy new year
Thank you @wasari for all of your insights into this secret world. You have provided so many of us with information and ideas we used to formulate more ideas and further discussion.
This thread was THE place many of us went to a few years back to hop in on these ideas and contribute to them.
It's really a shame it only took a few trolls to thwart those good times but man I sure did enjoy it!
Hopefully in time you could share more with us when you're able to (legally and personally) because I know I'm not alone in thinking this forum has lost a valuable asset with you not here.
Cheers and thank you for your many contributions and insights!
A beautiful Saturday afternoon. I want to say thank you to those who offered words of kindness during some difficult times and also words of encouragement as we continued our F1 journey. Whether Max or Lewis had won the WDC this year, I am very proud of what Honda and our “skunkworks” team has accomplished over the past seven years. I knew this day would come when we started this latest F1 project as it was estimated to be no more than an 8 to 10 year project.
....................
I will not miss the ugly politics of F1 and a big part of me is relieved that I am no longer at part of this circus. I wish everyone a Happy Holidays and Happy New Year. Be safe and good to yourself and fellow human.
Arigato @wazari san.
For your kind words and insight and open access. What ever the outcome of the season it was great to see the Honda engine at the front of racing in F1meeting and beating the Merc engine. As you said it was a long and difficult road. We appreciate your candour throughout all the development work.
If you do consider retirement I hope things are well enough health wise for you and family to enjoy life.
A beautiful Saturday afternoon. I want to say thank you to those who offered words of kindness during some difficult times and also words of encouragement as we continued our F1 journey. Whether Max or Lewis had won the WDC this year, I am very proud of what Honda and our “skunkworks” team has accomplished over the past seven years. I knew this day would come when we started this latest F1 project as it was estimated to be no more than an 8 to 10 year project.
I am really ready to retire now as well everyone on our unofficial team. I lost a dear friend of mine last year whose idea it was to form this team and help HRD with the F1 program after the terrible start in 2015. I am grateful to Toro Rosso, Red Bull and McLaren for allowing Honda to put their PU behind their drivers. It was my friend who convinced me to “get my head out of the clouds and put it to good use” and join this team. He had been with Honda since 1973 and was my mentor when I first joined Honda about forty years ago. I will never forget when we walked into HRD in Sakura the first day this last go-around and realized that we were on average over 30 years older than the rest of the engineers and staff there. I have seen “Old guys rule” T-shirts and bumper stickers in the U.S. and I think I know what I will buy my fellow team members for Christmas.
There were many internal obstacles and external influences that had to be overcome to get the 621 PU built the way we wanted it and to get it on the track this season knowing that this would be Honda’s last official year in F1. Fortunately we had some key proponents and an open-minded president willing to take on one on one meetings with people like myself to hear our side of the story. There were some key people against some or all of our ideas. The camshaft relocation and piston redesign were big changes that met opposition. Other challenges were changing the firing order to try and minimize exhaust pulses going into the turbine and convincing some people to get the Honda/GE jet engine people involved in development of the turbo. I think I have mentioned it here also that the blade/vane design of the turbine and compressor in the turbo are more important than the physical size itself. Luckily an old college mate of mine at Nagoya University was a key contributor to the “Kumamoto plating” process that was implemented to increase reliability of the cylinders and rings. This process is not a secret as some seem to think as it is patented and well published but it was his suggestion to use it on the F1 PU. Lastly redesigning the block so that the cylinder #1 is on the right hand side was also met with opposition because “You know, the #1 cylinder should be on the left hand side”….So needless to say, it has been quite the journey. We knew Mercedes was the bar. They build wonderful, beautiful pieces of machinery. The W12 is an excellent car. The 16B was also a big improvement over last year’s car but we knew we had to at least match the Mercedes PU with regards to power and reliability to give the 16B a fighting chance to compete and I think we accomplished that this year. Red Bull never gave up as they constantly brought upgrades this season. Not all of them worked as planned but they never quit nor did we. Also a big thanks to Mobil. The fuel and lubricants they developed for us was a significant factor to our progress.
One thing I want to mention is that sometimes we take for granted what is around us for inspiration. Since I grew up near Mishima city in Shizuoka-ken, my family would take many day trips to Hakone and since I was a baby, I must have seen Mt. Fuji from Hakone literally thousands and thousands of times. The view from Hakone and Lake Kawaguchi are my favorite. I could stare at Fuji-san and never get tired of her profile. Fuji-san was the inspiration for the piston crown. The slope, the crater, etc. nature’s gift to machinery. Funny and mysterious the way things work.
Next year Red Bull will be fine. I have spent a lot of time in Milton Keynes the first half of this year and the investment Red Bull has put into their PU division is impressive. The facility they built is first class and they have hired key Honda staff for this transition. Although Honda’s name will not be on the PU, it is a Honda. It will still be manufactured and assembled by Honda for at least another year. So I am not worried about next year. Again thank you again for all your support and congratulations to everyone at Red Bull and Max for the fine job. I would like people to remember that the WCC and WDC are not determined by one race but an accumulation of points won over 22 races determines the winner. In my opinion both Red Bull and Mercedes were both lucky and unlucky throughout the season. I will not miss the ugly politics of F1 and a big part of me is relieved that I am no longer at part of this circus. I wish everyone a Happy Holidays and Happy New Year. Be safe and good to yourself and fellow human.
お疲れ様！My grandparents lived in Sakurabashi, Shizuoka-Ken. It was a great memory visiting as a child. Fuji-san was indeed majestic and we had the opportunity to go to the visitor center, but not to the top.
I am glad to hear that your involvement with Honda’s revival was rewarded with Max’s title. I couldn’t help but think that we had divine intervention help us in those last laps. God must be a Honda fan… or have a few friendly souls poking him in the ribs.
Doesn't make sense to me. Honda could just switch to maintenance mode for the freeze and let RB pay for even that and the cars would still be likely to fight for the championship. (Depending on the work of Newey's team). That's three more years of free Honda advertisement.
