Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Tommy Cookers]

... With a ~10% reduction in energy content in the fuel ....

how wouldn't be a ~3% reduction in the energy content ?

(less than that if following eg the UK trading laws - they only require E10 to have over 5% ethanol)

[Craigy]

... With a ~10% reduction in energy content in the fuel ....

how wouldn't be a ~3% reduction in the energy content ?

(less than that if following eg the UK trading laws - they only require E10 to have over 5% ethanol)

The lower limit for ethanol content on UK E10 is actually 5.5% year-round according to the recent legislation.

For E5 there is no lower ethanol content limit; one of the major retailers doesn't put ethanol into their blend at all for much of the UK.

[DR30]

I would love to know more about the piston. I’ve sent that to a few people in the industry and they love the imagery of comparing it to Mt. Fuji as well as how well it was articulated. Almost poetry.

I’m assuming changing the no. 1 cylinder (front most) had to do with managing harmonic balances with the firing order change (to manage the pulse intervals) to the turbo, with the way it was all packaged.

At least that’s my guess.

Maybe to do with harmonics but I don't think so for the firing order idea. As far as packaging goes maybe?
Could it be simply be weight distribution was beneficial having that cylinder forward relative to the number of corners in that direction?
Another thought regarding direction of rotation of the crankshaft vs the MGU-H and K, could there be benefits to cancelling out moments of inertia etc. with different crank rotation? Sure there would be all sorts of pros and cons and harmonics.
My main question was regarding the wording "minimize exhaust pulses going into the turbine"
I'm sure it is probably lost a bit in translation, but wouldn't one generally trying to maximize the pulses going into the turbine?

[Hoffman900]

I believe it would be a matter of timing and keeping the pules as far away from each other possible.

For example, a bent crank V8 needs larger merge choke collector than an even fire I4 or flatplane V8.

[hardingfv32]

... With a ~10% reduction in energy content in the fuel, if they manage to improve the power unit despite the fuel induced handicap, this is good news indeed.

I am not sure what improve means here. If the car's fuel capacity is the same, then yes, the milage will decrease. The HP of the engine will increase because of the 3.7% (E10) added oxygen level in the fuel. I believe there is also an improvement in knock control. The ethanol also has a cooling effect so cooling drag could be reduced.

Brian

[Tommy Cookers]

.... The HP of the engine will increase because of the 3.7% (E10) added oxygen level in the fuel. I believe there is also an improvement in knock control. The ethanol also has a cooling effect so cooling drag could be reduced.
Brian

afaik and all that .....
ethanol has about 60% of the heat energy that gasoline does (for the same weight)
so 100 kg/hr of E10 will have about 96% of the energy that 100% gasoline at 100 kg/hr would
since 2014 F1 has used 5% biofuel which seems be bio-butanol (Honda anyway)
this blend would have about 98.7% of the energy of 100% gasoline

so the fuel energy (rate) reduction for 2022 will be c.3%
ie the total fuel energy onboard will be c.3% less if they load the same weight
yes they might load more (of the 110 kg load still permitted ?)

yes eg at stoichiometric (ie per mass of air used) 10% E10 would give c.0.4% more heat than 100% gasoline
but this would use about 5% more E10 ie 105 kg/hr rate

[godlameroso]

3% of 1000 is 30, that they've recovered that much and then some is impressive. The point being the new power unit is actually an improvement over the 2021 unit despite the new fuel.

[Tommy Cookers]

... The point being the new power unit is actually an improvement over the 2021 unit despite the new fuel.

well quick guesses on E10 vs But5 ....

1. the compressor work would be somewhat less (far less with eg 5% water though)
2. greater explosion range allows even leaner running .... ie enabling .....
more boost and so more heat dilution (less heat taken by coolant - more heat going into work on pistons)

[godlameroso]

... The point being the new power unit is actually an improvement over the 2021 unit despite the new fuel.

well quick guesses on E10 vs But5 ....

1 the compressor work would be less
2 greater explosion range allows leaner running ....
enabling more boost and more heat dilution (less heat taken by coolant - more heat going into work on pistons)

There is no maximum O2 content in the fuel specified, although I'm guessing they'll want to keep it at the minimum value possible ~3.5% The whole E10 thing is just a waste of resources, it's more expensive to make E10 than straight gasoline. If it weren't for government subsidies no one would bother. Oh well at least Konigsegg can exist. There's nothing sustainable or environmentally friendly about it, but lawmakers don't understand, and the populace are dumb as bricks, so nothing is going to change.

[NL_Fer]

Could the oxygen component play a role is MGU-H recovery? I mean, last 7 years now they tried to increase the amount of air in the cilinder, to increase the hot gas flow through the turbine.

Will the oxygen of the bio-ethanol replace the oxygen of the intake air, or does it add up and compensate the loss ICE energy with a little more ERS recovery?

[hardingfv32]

...but this would use about 5% more E10 ie 105 kg/hr rate...

Forgot about the fuel flow restriction. Could not spot it when reviewing the 2022 rules. What article is it in?

A little off subject. While searching I read 16.8 about oil properties. My reading of it indicates that the minimum engine oil viscosity is specified. Is this true?

Brian

[hasika]

https://nz2550.bvimg.com/14347/305e61319e87c504.jpg
Honda really did a fantastic job with the RA621H.

[Wouter]

https://nz2550.bvimg.com/14347/305e61319e87c504.jpg
Honda really did a fantastic job with the RA621H.

Thank you @Hasika! Look at the development from '18 - '19!

[hasika]

https://nz2550.bvimg.com/14347/305e61319e87c504.jpg
Honda really did a fantastic job with the RA621H.

Thank you @Hasika! Look at the development from '18 - '19!

https://nz2550.bvimg.com/14347/305e61319e87c504.jpg

Yeah,had to say the development from 18-19 was crazy....

[Hoffman900]

I'd really love to see the power curves of these powertrains to the real wheels, I bet it's very flat.