Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
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mclaren111
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Joined: 06 Apr 2014, 10:49
Location: Shithole - South Africa

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Wazari wrote:
18 Dec 2021, 07:52
A beautiful Saturday afternoon. I want to say thank you to those who offered words of kindness during some difficult times and also words of encouragement as we continued our F1 journey. Whether Max or Lewis had won the WDC this year, I am very proud of what Honda and our “skunkworks” team has accomplished over the past seven years. I knew this day would come when we started this latest F1 project as it was estimated to be no more than an 8 to 10 year project.

I am really ready to retire now as well everyone on our unofficial team. I lost a dear friend of mine last year whose idea it was to form this team and help HRD with the F1 program after the terrible start in 2015. I am grateful to Toro Rosso, Red Bull and McLaren for allowing Honda to put their PU behind their drivers. It was my friend who convinced me to “get my head out of the clouds and put it to good use” and join this team. He had been with Honda since 1973 and was my mentor when I first joined Honda about forty years ago. I will never forget when we walked into HRD in Sakura the first day this last go-around and realized that we were on average over 30 years older than the rest of the engineers and staff there. I have seen “Old guys rule” T-shirts and bumper stickers in the U.S. and I think I know what I will buy my fellow team members for Christmas.

There were many internal obstacles and external influences that had to be overcome to get the 621 PU built the way we wanted it and to get it on the track this season knowing that this would be Honda’s last official year in F1. Fortunately we had some key proponents and an open-minded president willing to take on one on one meetings with people like myself to hear our side of the story. There were some key people against some or all of our ideas. The camshaft relocation and piston redesign were big changes that met opposition. Other challenges were changing the firing order to try and minimize exhaust pulses going into the turbine and convincing some people to get the Honda/GE jet engine people involved in development of the turbo. I think I have mentioned it here also that the blade/vane design of the turbine and compressor in the turbo are more important than the physical size itself. Luckily an old college mate of mine at Nagoya University was a key contributor to the “Kumamoto plating” process that was implemented to increase reliability of the cylinders and rings. This process is not a secret as some seem to think as it is patented and well published but it was his suggestion to use it on the F1 PU. Lastly redesigning the block so that the cylinder #1 is on the right hand side was also met with opposition because “You know, the #1 cylinder should be on the left hand side”….So needless to say, it has been quite the journey. We knew Mercedes was the bar. They build wonderful, beautiful pieces of machinery. The W12 is an excellent car. The 16B was also a big improvement over last year’s car but we knew we had to at least match the Mercedes PU with regards to power and reliability to give the 16B a fighting chance to compete and I think we accomplished that this year. Red Bull never gave up as they constantly brought upgrades this season. Not all of them worked as planned but they never quit nor did we. Also a big thanks to Mobil. The fuel and lubricants they developed for us was a significant factor to our progress.

One thing I want to mention is that sometimes we take for granted what is around us for inspiration. Since I grew up near Mishima city in Shizuoka-ken, my family would take many day trips to Hakone and since I was a baby, I must have seen Mt. Fuji from Hakone literally thousands and thousands of times. The view from Hakone and Lake Kawaguchi are my favorite. I could stare at Fuji-san and never get tired of her profile. Fuji-san was the inspiration for the piston crown. The slope, the crater, etc. nature’s gift to machinery. Funny and mysterious the way things work.

Next year Red Bull will be fine. I have spent a lot of time in Milton Keynes the first half of this year and the investment Red Bull has put into their PU division is impressive. The facility they built is first class and they have hired key Honda staff for this transition. Although Honda’s name will not be on the PU, it is a Honda. It will still be manufactured and assembled by Honda for at least another year. So I am not worried about next year. Again thank you again for all your support and congratulations to everyone at Red Bull and Max for the fine job. I would like people to remember that the WCC and WDC are not determined by one race but an accumulation of points won over 22 races determines the winner. In my opinion both Red Bull and Mercedes were both lucky and unlucky throughout the season. I will not miss the ugly politics of F1 and a big part of me is relieved that I am no longer at part of this circus. I wish everyone a Happy Holidays and Happy New Year. Be safe and good to yourself and fellow human.


Congratulations Wazari-san... Enjoy your well deserved retirement...

hasika
hasika
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Joined: 30 Nov 2017, 04:12

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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http://nz2550.bvimg.com/14347/03cc94f3545660c9.jpg
About MGU-H.It seems honda used a new energy control logic in the whole 2019 season,and the control logic was OK in winter test and Australia GP but suddenly banned when 2020 season finally started in Austria.

f1motta
f1motta
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Joined: 07 Apr 2011, 09:28

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Image
Last edited by f1motta on 31 Dec 2021, 15:58, edited 1 time in total.

Hoffman900
Hoffman900
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Joined: 13 Oct 2019, 03:02

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Can anyone tell me what the valve angles are as well as what the color gradient chart is?

Thanks

f1motta
f1motta
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Joined: 07 Apr 2011, 09:28

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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It's just to small to read it even on hi-res pictures I have.

f1motta
f1motta
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Joined: 07 Apr 2011, 09:28

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Image
Last edited by f1motta on 31 Dec 2021, 15:58, edited 1 time in total.

Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
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Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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'The high-speed combustion concept is a combustion concept that utilizes self-ignition' .....

really ?
self-ignition ?
real actual self-ignition ?

suggested by some posters years ago (easy - that bit)

Hoffman900
Hoffman900
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Joined: 13 Oct 2019, 03:02

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
28 Dec 2021, 01:15
'The high-speed combustion concept is a combustion concept that utilizes self-ignition' .....

really ?
self-ignition ?
real actual self-ignition ?

suggested by some posters years ago
I saw that as well. I'd be curious about burn speed as I always thought that was the inherent limitation of self combustion engines.

I DO like the compact chamber though, and the comments on Fuji-san being the inspiration of the dome. I have to wonder how the shallower chamber was balanced with tumble motion, I'm assuming it increased.

If anyone wants to learn how you can really FUBAR up the combustion process, play with 2-valve hemi's.

NL_Fer
NL_Fer
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Joined: 15 Jun 2014, 09:48

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
28 Dec 2021, 01:15
'The high-speed combustion concept is a combustion concept that utilizes self-ignition' .....

really ?
self-ignition ?
real actual self-ignition ?

suggested by some posters years ago (easy - that bit)
Probably self-ignition triggered by the shockwave of main combustion.

Tommy Cookers
Tommy Cookers
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Joined: 17 Feb 2012, 16:55

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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NL_Fer wrote:
28 Dec 2021, 10:50
Probably self-ignition triggered by the shockwave of main combustion.
what won WW2 (and car races)

and ....
during the 20 Hz 'extra harvest' ....
most of the GU-K output goes into an increase of MGU-H rpm (then converted into electrical energy by GU-H action)
ie 25 msec MGU-H acceleration 25 msec MGU-H deceleration
confirming to me the MGU-H (substantial response in rpm) aka electromechanical 'time constant' is c.25 msec

Jaisonas
Jaisonas
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Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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f1motta wrote:
27 Dec 2021, 21:43
https://i.imgur.com/3mQ1sqe.jpg
I remember that, it was that fancy ""antilag"" they were using from mid 2019 to 2020 preseason testing. A huge shame they disallowed that on the last minute, that hurt honda's 2020 season quite a lot.

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ispano6
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Joined: 09 Mar 2017, 23:56
Location: my playseat

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Jaisonas wrote:
28 Dec 2021, 14:49
f1motta wrote:
27 Dec 2021, 21:43
https://i.imgur.com/3mQ1sqe.jpg
I remember that, it was that fancy ""antilag"" they were using from mid 2019 to 2020 preseason testing. A huge shame they disallowed that on the last minute, that hurt honda's 2020 season quite a lot.
It was allowed in Australia but not Austria after the 2020 season was suspended. In the end it might have been for the better.

f1motta
f1motta
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Joined: 07 Apr 2011, 09:28

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Four FIA TD were introduced. One of them it was extra monitoring on ERS system (CE).

Eryngii
Eryngii
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Joined: 03 Jan 2018, 04:51

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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Tommy Cookers wrote:
28 Dec 2021, 01:15
'The high-speed combustion concept is a combustion concept that utilizes self-ignition' .....

really ?
self-ignition ?
real actual self-ignition ?

suggested by some posters years ago (easy - that bit)
(I'm sorry for my poor English.)

The self-ignition is explained by Honda engineers (Takahashi and Tagishi) in the article in this book.
Honda RA618H & RA619H: HONDA Racing Addict Vol.3 2018〜2019
The writer's comment is here. (Kota Sera: He is one of the most reliable motorsports technical writer in Japan.)

The same image as in the article can be found here.
Image
Upper: Pre-chamber Jet Combustion [RA617H〜RA618H Spec.2]
Lower: Rapid Combustion (pre-chamber jet ignition + partial self-ignition) [RA618H Spec.3〜]

Translation:
- 副室ジェット燃焼 = Pre-chamber Jet Combustion
- 高速燃焼 = Rapid Combustion (with self-ignition triggered by flame from pre-chamber, Honda engineer says in the article)

- 点火プラグ・副室 = Spark plug & Pre-chamber
- 噴孔 = Orifice
- ピストン = Piston
- 火炎の向き = Flame direction

- 着火前 = Before ignition
- 燃焼開始 = Start combustion
- 燃え広がり = Flame propagation
Last edited by Eryngii on 29 Dec 2021, 11:40, edited 2 times in total.

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Zynerji
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Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

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So, it's in the jet orifice geometry? Or a really "loud" injector? Maybe an EMP? 🤔🤔