2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Wouter]

According to Franco Nugnes, both Mercedes and Ferrari have already recovered the horsepower loss from the E10 fuel.

Meanwhile, according to Marko, Honda hasn’t recovered the loss of power yet.

Mercedes already had 15 horsepower on Honda last season. If Max wants any realistic shot at the title, Red Bull cannot allow that gap to get any larger.

.
Not surprising. There’s two potential reasons to consider for this.
ExxonMOBIL is their oil partner? Maybe they’re not as capable innovating as Shell and Petronas?
Or is this more likely falling to the engine people? I’m gonna guess the latter actually.

In that case, with Honda, well, they’re extremely competent to develop such a phenomenal engine last season. Only way their capability could be undermined is if the rumour ever turned out to be true that some Mercedes HPP knowledge leaked their way. Assuming it isn’t that, most likely for me, it’s Honda’s commitment - they left. The infrastructure of their spending, R&D etc must have wound down? RBR is in a transitional stage in reconstructing an Powertrains group as well.
So, it’s not a surprise that this may have bottlenecked development pace on the engine.

.
You couldn't be more further from the truth.
Just wait and see how fast the Honda PU will be in Bahrain.

[AeroDynamic]

According to Franco Nugnes, both Mercedes and Ferrari have already recovered the horsepower loss from the E10 fuel.

Meanwhile, according to Marko, Honda hasn’t recovered the loss of power yet.

Mercedes already had 15 horsepower on Honda last season. If Max wants any realistic shot at the title, Red Bull cannot allow that gap to get any larger.

.
Not surprising. There’s two potential reasons to consider for this.
ExxonMOBIL is their oil partner? Maybe they’re not as capable innovating as Shell and Petronas?
Or is this more likely falling to the engine people? I’m gonna guess the latter actually.

In that case, with Honda, well, they’re extremely competent to develop such a phenomenal engine last season. Only way their capability could be undermined is if the rumour ever turned out to be true that some Mercedes HPP knowledge leaked their way. Assuming it isn’t that, most likely for me, it’s Honda’s commitment - they left. The infrastructure of their spending, R&D etc must have wound down? RBR is in a transitional stage in reconstructing an Powertrains group as well.
So, it’s not a surprise that this may have bottlenecked development pace on the engine.

.
You couldn't be more further from the truth.
Just wait and see how fast the Honda PU will be in Bahrain.

What is the truth then? Whats the point of responding to a question if theres nothing useful to elaborate with. I expect answers on here if people possess them.

[diffuser]

.
Not surprising. There’s two potential reasons to consider for this.
ExxonMOBIL is their oil partner? Maybe they’re not as capable innovating as Shell and Petronas?
Or is this more likely falling to the engine people? I’m gonna guess the latter actually.

In that case, with Honda, well, they’re extremely competent to develop such a phenomenal engine last season. Only way their capability could be undermined is if the rumour ever turned out to be true that some Mercedes HPP knowledge leaked their way. Assuming it isn’t that, most likely for me, it’s Honda’s commitment - they left. The infrastructure of their spending, R&D etc must have wound down? RBR is in a transitional stage in reconstructing an Powertrains group as well.
So, it’s not a surprise that this may have bottlenecked development pace on the engine.

.
You couldn't be more further from the truth.
Just wait and see how fast the Honda PU will be in Bahrain.

What is the truth then? Whats the point of responding to a question if theres nothing useful to elaborate with. I expect answers on here if people possess them.

It's all hearsay. Wouldn't put it past Marco to BS us about that. Pretty certain that the least powerful PU in Bahrain can still be the fastest car. How well RBR does at Bahrain has no direct reflection on how powerful the PU is.

[Jambier]

With Renault and Ferrari bringing new and huge upgrades (maybe not reliable), indeed RB will need to have a very good chassis

[Wouter]

.
Not surprising. There’s two potential reasons to consider for this.
ExxonMOBIL is their oil partner? Maybe they’re not as capable innovating as Shell and Petronas?
Or is this more likely falling to the engine people? I’m gonna guess the latter actually.

In that case, with Honda, well, they’re extremely competent to develop such a phenomenal engine last season. Only way their capability could be undermined is if the rumour ever turned out to be true that some Mercedes HPP knowledge leaked their way. Assuming it isn’t that, most likely for me, it’s Honda’s commitment - they left. The infrastructure of their spending, R&D etc must have wound down? RBR is in a transitional stage in reconstructing an Powertrains group as well.
So, it’s not a surprise that this may have bottlenecked development pace on the engine.

.
You couldn't be more further from the truth.
Just wait and see how fast the Honda PU will be in Bahrain.

What is the truth then?
Whats the point of responding to a question if theres nothing useful to elaborate with.

.
I haven't seen you ask a question anywhere. I've just seen a bunch of assumptions that I've responded to.

I expect answers on here if people possess them.

I can imagine that.

[AeroDynamic]

You actually bolded three questions, where I asked where this challenge falls more towards Oil development partner or engine. I asked if their partner is ExxonMOBIL. What part of that discussion did you answer or provide any further insight?

[Wouter]

You actually bolded three questions, where I asked where this challenge falls more towards Oil development partner or engine.
I asked if their partner is ExxonMOBIL. What part of that discussion did you answer or provide any further insight?

Not at any part, because you answered those "questions" yourself.
By the way, do I have to tell you that Mobil1 is RBR's oil partner? You gotta be kidding me.

AeroDynamic wrote: ↑
19 Jan 2022, 18:57

Not surprising. There’s two potential reasons to consider for this.
ExxonMOBIL is their oil partner? Maybe they’re not as capable innovating as Shell and Petronas?
Or is this more likely falling to the engine people? I’m gonna guess the latter actually.

In that case, with Honda, well, they’re extremely competent to ......

[f1jcw]

According to Franco Nugnes, both Mercedes and Ferrari have already recovered the horsepower loss from the E10 fuel.

Meanwhile, according to Marko, Honda hasn’t recovered the loss of power yet.

Mercedes already had 15 horsepower on Honda last season. If Max wants any realistic shot at the title, Red Bull cannot allow that gap to get any larger.

.
Not surprising. There’s two potential reasons to consider for this.
ExxonMOBIL is their oil partner? Maybe they’re not as capable innovating as Shell and Petronas?
Or is this more likely falling to the engine people? I’m gonna guess the latter actually.

In that case, with Honda, well, they’re extremely competent to develop such a phenomenal engine last season. Only way their capability could be undermined is if the rumour ever turned out to be true that some Mercedes HPP knowledge leaked their way. Assuming it isn’t that, most likely for me, it’s Honda’s commitment - they left. The infrastructure of their spending, R&D etc must have wound down? RBR is in a transitional stage in reconstructing an Powertrains group as well.
So, it’s not a surprise that this may have bottlenecked development pace on the engine.

.
You couldn't be more further from the truth.
Just wait and see how fast the Honda PU will be in Bahrain.

If you know the "truth" come out and say it.
If you don’t have "truth", then just give your opinion why it is wrong.

AeroDynamic, posted his opinion in an amicable way on a rumour posted by another poster.

[AeroDynamic]

You actually bolded three questions, where I asked where this challenge falls more towards Oil development partner or engine.
I asked if their partner is ExxonMOBIL. What part of that discussion did you answer or provide any further insight?

Not at any part, because you answered those "questions" yourself.
By the way, do I have to tell you that Mobil1 is RBR's oil partner? You gotta be kidding me.

AeroDynamic wrote: ↑
19 Jan 2022, 18:57

Not surprising. There’s two potential reasons to consider for this.
ExxonMOBIL is their oil partner? Maybe they’re not as capable innovating as Shell and Petronas?
Or is this more likely falling to the engine people? I’m gonna guess the latter actually.

In that case, with Honda, well, they’re extremely competent to ......

So you dont have any idea who this development falls more towards? Speculating isnt my idea of assuming - im not asserting anything as an answer, and welcome people to provide what they know. I dont know what you got out of this..

But thank you for answering about the sponsor!! I REALLY, really thought it was ExxonMOBIL

AeroDynamic, posted his opinion in an amicable way on a rumour posted by another poster.

If you know the "truth" come out and say it.
If you don’t have "truth", then just give your opinion why it is wrong.

THANKYOU.image

[ispano6]

You actually bolded three questions, where I asked where this challenge falls more towards Oil development partner or engine.
I asked if their partner is ExxonMOBIL. What part of that discussion did you answer or provide any further insight?

Not at any part, because you answered those "questions" yourself.
By the way, do I have to tell you that Mobil1 is RBR's oil partner? You gotta be kidding me.

AeroDynamic wrote: ↑
19 Jan 2022, 18:57

Not surprising. There’s two potential reasons to consider for this.
ExxonMOBIL is their oil partner? Maybe they’re not as capable innovating as Shell and Petronas?
Or is this more likely falling to the engine people? I’m gonna guess the latter actually.

In that case, with Honda, well, they’re extremely competent to ......

So you dont have any idea who this development falls more towards? Speculating isnt my idea of assuming - im not asserting anything as an answer, and welcome people to provide what they know. I dont know what you got out of this..

But thank you for answering about the sponsor!! I REALLY, really thought it was ExxonMOBIL

AeroDynamic, posted his opinion in an amicable way on a rumour posted by another poster.

THANKYOU.

If you know the "truth" come out and say it.
If you don’t have "truth", then just give your opinion why it is wrong.

https://i.imgur.com/G9AWfal.png

I find your diction in poor taste. In fact I question why you have started this thread given your tendency to denigrate RedBull and Honda. You post images that are quite frankly unnecessary.

As for your opinion that Honda's commitment is at fault for being allegedly behind Mercedes and Ferrari's power figures based on here say is conjecture at best given you have no accurate information to go off and are intentionally insinuating that Exxonmobil's fuel is up to par. Exxonmobil themselves have noted that Honda and RedBull didn't fully realize the potential of their upgraded oils during the 2021 campaign due to homologation so there already was performance to be gained over last year. It's been reported that Petronas and Shell developed fuel that recovers the 20hp or so loss from the lower energy density of 10% ethanol but you surmise Honda is at fault for not having recovered compared to 2021? In any case, Marko says that he is hearing positive news on that front so that can only mean Honda and ExxonMobil are making progress. At this point your opinion is more or less what you want to believe.

[Ryar]

.
Not surprising. There’s two potential reasons to consider for this.
ExxonMOBIL is their oil partner? Maybe they’re not as capable innovating as Shell and Petronas?
Or is this more likely falling to the engine people? I’m gonna guess the latter actually.

In that case, with Honda, well, they’re extremely competent to develop such a phenomenal engine last season. Only way their capability could be undermined is if the rumour ever turned out to be true that some Mercedes HPP knowledge leaked their way. Assuming it isn’t that, most likely for me, it’s Honda’s commitment - they left. The infrastructure of their spending, R&D etc must have wound down? RBR is in a transitional stage in reconstructing an Powertrains group as well.
So, it’s not a surprise that this may have bottlenecked development pace on the engine.

.
You couldn't be more further from the truth.
Just wait and see how fast the Honda PU will be in Bahrain.

What is the truth then? Whats the point of responding to a question if theres nothing useful to elaborate with. I expect answers on here if people possess them.

You should keep yourself updated with Red Bull Honda developments so that you don't have to see someone telling you that. No point repeating what has transpired between RB and Honda. Dig it yourself.

[Csmith1980]

.
You couldn't be more further from the truth.
Just wait and see how fast the Honda PU will be in Bahrain.

What is the truth then? Whats the point of responding to a question if theres nothing useful to elaborate with. I expect answers on here if people possess them.

You should keep yourself updated with Red Bull Honda developments so that you don't have to see someone telling you that. No point repeating what has transpired between RB and Honda. Dig it yourself.

Ah, the good old “do your research” comment. Problem is the burden of proof is on wouter seeing as he claims to know the “truth”

[Ryar]

What is the truth then? Whats the point of responding to a question if theres nothing useful to elaborate with. I expect answers on here if people possess them.

You should keep yourself updated with Red Bull Honda developments so that you don't have to see someone telling you that. No point repeating what has transpired between RB and Honda. Dig it yourself.

Ah, the good old “do your research” comment. Problem is the burden of proof is on wouter seeing as he claims to know the “truth”

RB/Honda threads have been full of discussions on post departure arrangements about work handoff and what could be the impact and how it is planned to be mitigated. So, just a little research wouldn't harm or even better, keep on eye on proceedings, even if it's not one's favorite team. It helps the matters.

[SiLo]

If you know the "truth" come out and say it.
If you don’t have "truth", then just give your opinion why it is wrong.

AeroDynamic, posted his opinion in an amicable way on a rumour posted by another poster.

Nail -> Head.

A lot of the time we get threads going this way simply because nobody wants to qualify their comments with any kind of source of fact, or even a statement that it is their opinion and why.

Moving on - Marko saying they have yet to recover the rest of the lost HP due to the switch to E10 sounds about right, but I imagine when we get to Bahrain most of the teams will be fairly close in power as it was at the end of 2021.

[Wouter]

If you know the "truth" come out and say it.
If you don’t have "truth", then just give your opinion why it is wrong.

AeroDynamic, posted his opinion in an amicable way on a rumour posted by another poster.

Nail -> Head.

A lot of the time we get threads going this way simply because nobody wants to qualify their comments
with any kind of source of fact, or even a statement that it is their opinion and why.

You want sources and facts?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=18874

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26921

viewtopic.php?f=15&t=29593

https://the-race.com/category/formula-1/

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/