Rear diffuser Appeal Predictions

[Chaparral]

Expensive dont be a prat mate - Virtuoso is on the right track - Brawn started this BG1 car 15 months ago Williams & Toyota a bit later and have adhered to the guidelines presented and Brawn even tried to close any possible 'loopholes' on FOTA's behalf - in a real world this whole thing wouldnt be a problem - or maybe we should set certain guidelines for the global car manufacturers to adhere by - OK BMW, Mecedes, GM, Ford etc these are your parameters for manufacture - then the crunch comes - OK Mercedes that B panel doesnt look standard and that suspension isnt what is laid down by the manufacturers guidelines so we are going to suspend your manufacturing license for the rest of the year - for gods sake do you see how stupid this all is


I am so glad I love karting & Formula Ford - real racing in a sea of ---!!

[xpensive]

At the end of the day Chap, rules or not, you know as well as me that the 2J was unreasonable, even if ligit on paper?

What we have is a contradiction of what the 2009-rules was about, to limit aerodynamical grip in favour of "mechanical".

As I said on other threads, impose a flat-bottom rule all the way or re-introduce venturis, sliding skirts and whatever.

[Chaparral]

At the end of the day Chap, rules or not, you know as well as me that the 2J was unreasonable, even if ligit on paper?

What we have is a contradiction of what the 2009-rules was about, to limit aerodynamical grip in favour of "mechanical".

As I said on other threads, impose a flat-bottom rule all the way or re-introduce venturis, sliding skirts and whatever.

Hey X no I dont know - its always been in the interpretation for as long as I can remember when it comes to build of a car (Ive been observing this and most 2 or 4 wheeled formulae since the early 60's) and to be honest that suits me fine - its build a better mouse trap for everyone - I love the colour grey it makes you use the grey matter at all levels I'm at home more with a ground effect/mechanical situation more so than a flat bottom/aero thing with all those unsightly pieces hanging off the cars - at least this year we finally have some interest in this Grand Prix game (I mean the on track stuff forget the b/s with Mclaren and diffusers) lets hope it continues - I may even stay up to watch the (delayed) telecast of Shanghai at 11 pm - maybe not.

[xpensive]

Chap, I think racing has come a long way since you and I were watching Denny coming down that corkscrew with one of those magnifichent 500+ inchers, at least in terms of optimization of what dole you've got at your disposal.

Whith 300+ MAUD at hand, I'm afraid you might get a situation of wasting ridiculous money for miniscule improvements, unless you limit things for bloody ever or let everything go bananas.

[Chaparral]

Well I did say my fave real racing situation these days was karting & Formula Ford - look I think the rules are just fine get on with it and build a better mouse trap - Can Am was the ultimate in free form motor sport euphoria (well the original 66-74 series was) but no I dont expect or want F1 to go that way - I just like 'grey' so the various contenders can interpret them as they will - the governance has gone way to far - I expect a huge change over the next few years in the area - be it by FOTA doing the job they set out to do or whatever - times marching on for everyone X

[xpensive]

Better watch yourself Chap, I'll be in Sydney and Hobart for business the coming of May this year.

By the way, why did Dan Gurney have to go in 1970, never got that one. Castrol?

[virtuso13]

DEAR XPENSIVE , HEEDING TO YOU REQUEST I'M REVERTING TO BLOCK LETTERIG
I AM ALSO USING DIFFERENT COLOURS SO THAT YOU WILL NOT FIND IT BORING
LET ME BEGIN WITH A CLASSIC EXAMPLE
WHEN NASA BEGAN THE LAUNCH OF ASTRONAUTS INTO
SPACE, THEY FOUND OUT THAT THE PENS WOULDN'T WORK AT
ZERO GRAVITY (INK WOULDN'T FLOW DOWN TO THE WRITING
SURFACE ).
TO SOLVE THIS PROBLEM , IT TOOK THEM THREE MONTHS AND
$12 MILLION .


THEY DEVELOPED A PEN THAT WORKED AT ZERO GRAVITY , WROTE UPSIDE
DOWN, UNDERWATER, AND PRACTICALLY ANY SURFACE INCLUDING CRYSTAL
WORKING IN A TEMPERATURE RANGE FROM
BELOW FREEZING TO OVER 300 DEGREE C.
AND WHAT DID THE RUSSIANS DO ??????????
THEY USED A PENCIL =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

THAT IS WHAT YOUR DEAREST FERRARI HAVE DONE . THEY USELESSLY COMPLICATED STUFF .THEY SPENT MONEY ONLY TO END UP WITH A --- CAR . BUT TEAMS LIKE BRAWN WERE LIKE THE RUSSIANS , THEY USED THEIR GREY MATTER THEY WENT TO FOTA TO CLEAR THE LOOPHOLES BUT YOUR WONDERFUL PEOPLE AT FERRARI,REDBULL OR WHATEVER DIDN'T CARE.NOW WHEN THEY SEE THAT THEIR CARS SUCK THEY START CRYING FOUL

JUST A DIRTY TRICK TO COVER UP THEIR INCOMPETENCE


AND FINALLY WHEN THE RULING IS MADE THAT THESE DIFFUSERS ARE LEGAL YOUR GREAT SAINT FERRARI / SAINT RED BULL / WHATEVER SAINT WILL COPY THESE DESIGNS SHAMELESSLY LIKE NOTHING EVER HAPPENED .

SUCH GREAT PEOPLE INDEED ( MILLIONS AND MILLIONS OF TONS OF BLOODY SARCASM )


I HOPE YOU HAD AN EDUCATIVE EXPERIENCE AND THAT YOU ARE TRULY ENLIGHTENED XPENSIVE

IF THIS DIDN'T HELP YOU MAY GOD BLESS YOUR SOUL

[Ian P.]

Rules are rules and guidelines are NOT rules.
Yes, the "intention" of the new rules was to achieve a decrease in downforce, something I haven't come to complete understanding of..... the front wings are bigger and lower, there is still provision for winglets and barge boards, the rear wing is higher (yes it's narrower), the diffuser is further to the rear....end result, after only several months of development we are looking at downforce levels comparable to 2008.
Give credit to the teams that ignored the stated intention of the rules and actually read them and then designed to the limit and letter as written.
F1 is all about competition. Both on and off the track. If one team finds a tenth by putting a fairing on the top of the driver's helmet, then fully expect all the others to follow. In 2008 Renault fell behind because they ran their engine group to the intention of the rules. That being....frozen spec. and no development. Ferrari on the otherhand, made some ....reliability improvements. Result, Renault was 30 BHP down on all the other teams. Did someone mention "competition..."??

We need a poll, my bet is the multi step diffusers will be accepted. The rules will stand as written and all the teams will be headed to the wind-tunnel to develop and to perfect the accepted new "standard".

[timbo]

In my understanding those smart people in BRAWN used something around $400 million and 1.2 years to have this car.
And incompetent folks in Ferrari fight for the championship with updates for every race.
And the last known time Ferrari used loophole in the regulations, regulations were tightened.

[xpensive]

Either way, MrM knows that the verdict of next week will be decisive for the immediate future of F1 as we understand it.

[virtuso13]

timbo :
In my understanding those smart people in BRAWN used something around $400 million and 1.2 years to have this car.
And incompetent folks in Ferrari fight for the championship with updates for every race.
And the last known time Ferrari used loophole in the regulations, regulations were tightened

Ferrari didn't even spend a dime on their car did they ???????
Look at these figures . They are probably very old so i think the actual cost is a lot higher . Anyway take a look .

Cost of one F1 car
Part            cost            no.      total cost
Monocoque  	$117.900   	1  	$117.900
Bodywork 	$8.500 	        4  	$34.000
Rear wings 	$12.900  	10 	$129.000
Front wings 	$21.500 	10 	$215.000
Engine 	        	 	        $4.708.000
Gearbox 	$128.600 	4 	$514.400
Exhaust 	$11.600 	22 	$255.620
Telemetrie 	$107.150 	1 	$107.150
Fire extinguisher 	$3.200 	1 	$3.200
Brake disks 	$1.200  	120 	$144.000
Brake lining 	$190 	        240 	$45.600
Brake saddle 	$2.200   	8 	$17.600
Wheel 	                                $65.000
Tire 	                                $291.200
Shock absorber 	 $1.300 	48 	62.400
Pedals 	        $2.200    	1 	$2.200
Dashboard 	$3.200 	        1 	$3.200
Steering 	$4.300 	        1 	$4.300
Mirror          $650 	        2 	$1.300
Steering wheel 	$320 	        1 	$320
Tank 	        $10.700 	1 	$10.700
Under work 	$8.600 	        10 	$86.000
Suspension 	$1.300 	        40 	$52.000
Total amount: 	$6,868,000

pretty cheap ain't it ????????

And incompetent folks in Ferrari fight for the championship with updates for every race.

and still they don't win . Ironic isn't it ????

I don't care what Ferrari does . But I do salute those in small teams like williams ,brawn and tayota . Why ????? Coz they used their heads .Probably you should start using it too
no offense

EDIT : DUE TO MY SHEER LAZINESS I CAN'T GET THOSE FIGURES LOOK LIKE IN A TABULAR FORM

RE-EDIT by mods: I would be surprised if it were laziness. Use the <pre> tag, that is, the button right below the bold one. Or perhaps a pencil would be better...

[andartop]

It's really funny when people refer to Brawn GP and Toyota as "small teams"!

[xpensive]

John Howett would be offended if he heard someone call his team small. In terms of results for money invested perhaps?

[Giblet]

Those numbers are insane.

Sorry, but if I have a pre-established fab shop with people in place that can work, I can make a front wing or cheaper than $21,500.

Some of those numbers look like they were made up to get a bigger budget from a board of directors.

[Ciro Pabón]

Yes, I would like to know who's making the accounting. This parts list comes straight from a sports magazine (F1Racing, March 2007). However, sports magazines, well... aren't they sporty? For example, was the wind tunnel time for developing the front wing included? And... why parts for 10-12 races only?