General Honda F1 Topic

[ispano6]

Grass is always greener on the other side. Honda America has ugly cars. It doesn't have the Honda E, which is one of Honda's best designs. Honda Japan has some nifty looking cars that vary in size. The American Odyssey has become too big, the Japanese one is quite nice. Japan has the N-Series, S660, Step Wagon, Fit/Shuttle, and Freed which I'm sure many in the US and Europe would be interested in. Unfortunately each region has it's own autonomy and don't share products other than the core models Civic, Accord, Vezel and CR-V. The US market is the money maker, but focus is already shifting to China and Asean markets - the designs coming out of those regions are better. Take for example the current China market Integra - it's quite the looker and is much better styled than the current Civic.

[mzso]

Very much so if VAG is serious.
I think the new RB guys will be creating IP on their own as if they were building their own engine anyway, and if VAG does come the RB guys can always treansfer IP to VAG for use.

If VAG is in the door already, I imagine they will be integrating the new engine guys into some new subsidiary engine department or something. Hmm.

Do all the hard work, then let VAG enjoy its benefits. Makes sense...

[PlatinumZealot]

Very much so if VAG is serious.
I think the new RB guys will be creating IP on their own as if they were building their own engine anyway, and if VAG does come the RB guys can always treansfer IP to VAG for use.

If VAG is in the door already, I imagine they will be integrating the new engine guys into some new subsidiary engine department or something. Hmm.

Do all the hard work, then let VAG enjoy its benefits. Makes sense...

I think it does under the right circumstances. I am thinking such a deal can emerge if RedBull realize they are in over their heads. On the other hand, if they are 100% dead committed however, with no amount of help or money from VW swaying them, then you are right, they will push through to build something that will serve them in the long run.

[Big Tea]

Guys, there are so many rumours flaying about an Audi/VW tie in I am really not sure where things are.
It there any definite evidence it is going to happen, or is it still all speculation?

Are Honda happy about handing over to them or are they going to have a hard break at a set point, with assumingly all staff and kit going home and leaving Red Bull with an empty building?
That cannot be good, but I do not see Honda making a gift of things to a competitor.
Honda are still producing the unit until 2025, right? (or not).

A link to any good article covering things here would be apricated.

[NL_Fer]

Honda will manufacture the current engine in Japan. Maybe some final tuning or mapping in the UK. RPT will develop a new 2026 powerunit in the UK.

[Big Tea]

Honda will manufacture the current engine in Japan. Maybe some final tuning or mapping in the UK. RPT will develop a new 2026 powerunit in the UK.

Thanks, thats how I understood it, but how do VW/Audi fit in?
Any solid information or is it all speculation?

[mzso]

Honda are still producing the unit until 2025, right? (or not).

Yes. So I don't see them teaming up with anyone else.

[NL_Fer]

Honda will manufacture the current engine in Japan. Maybe some final tuning or mapping in the UK. RPT will develop a new 2026 powerunit in the UK.

Thanks, thats how I understood it, but how do VW/Audi fit in?
Any solid information or is it all speculation?

I only red some info by Zak Brown. He admitted there has been talks about Audi or VAG to takeover McLaren. But he also suggested that a partnership of Redbull with Porsche is an alternative option. Will they take both options? Who knows.

I could think, if it would be only Redbull-Porsche, they could takeover RPT or integrate in their new F1 powerunit organisation.

[Jolle]

Honda will manufacture the current engine in Japan. Maybe some final tuning or mapping in the UK. RPT will develop a new 2026 powerunit in the UK.

Thanks, thats how I understood it, but how do VW/Audi fit in?
Any solid information or is it all speculation?

I only red some info by Zak Brown. He admitted there has been talks about Audi or VAG to takeover McLaren. But he also suggested that a partnership of Redbull with Porsche is an alternative option. Will they take both options? Who knows.

I could think, if it would be only Redbull-Porsche, they could takeover RPT or integrate in their new F1 powerunit organisation.

I don't imagine they will do two top teams, nobody ever made that work.

VW is a company who would do something long term, takes their time and will review all the options. This is something I found a bit meh from Honda, their relationship status with F1 would be "complicated". This last attempt was their third of fourth comeback?

Both McLaren and RedBull are interesting for very different reasons, for a big company as VW. With McLaren, it would be a takeover, like Daimler did in the late nineties, have the McLaren brand as a good addition to Lamborghini, Porsche and Bentley as their high premium supercars, with the added bonus of promoting for instance Audi with a sticker and engine in the back of the McLaren F1 car.

As for RedBull, I could also see them take a stake in RedBull technologies, on the one hand giving and taking lots of engineering power, the halo that is Newey's department and, next to that, use the markering company that is RedBull in it's basis. A hole like of special R-line RedBull branded Skodas, Seats and VWs (dark matte blue paint, special cupholders for your cans, some "Newey" flared bumpers) and a RedBullTechnology Audi R8 successor.

[Big Tea]

A quick google says Audi have their own large 'performance' establishment near Stuttgart.
Would they want to share the name if they entered F1, or use the existing facilities to supply an own brand engine over which they have complete control, and would be free to swap teams if required, or modify it for another series?

Red Bull have no engine knowledge or IP, so why would they saddle themselves with a partner who's only input would be money, which they would get as a supplier anyway?
They would get the same or more from Red Bull (or any team) by being an outside engine supplier and not have to deal directly.

Not 'having a go' at anyone or any team here, its just that only now I have started paying attention to it as VW seem about to enter F1 every 2-3 years and never do.
If they are really serious, it would be good, but is there any real indication they are?

(TBH, on a pure personal level I am jaded with them as it has been so many times promised and never delivered I am suspicious of their motive again)

[NL_Fer]

Their return to WEC with the Porsche and Audi LMDh seems to indicate they are serious to return to combustion engine motorsport. They even seem to enter Lamborghini as well. Also Dieselgate is now behind their backs.

Redbull is a proven world champion and Verstappen wants to stay long term. So it is very attractive for a manufacturer to partner with them. Also F1 powerunits have always been very specific and I believe that if Audi would enter a (UK based) F1-only powerplant would be the logical option. RPT could become Audi’s version of Mercedes HPE in Brixworth.

[jagunx51]

No, Honda Says It Hasn’t Agreed to New Red Bull F1 Engine Deal Past 2022

Reports last week claimed a deal was made through 2025, though Honda tells us that's not the case.

BY HAZEL SOUTHWELL

JANUARY 31, 2022

https://www.thedrive.com/accelerator/44 ... -past-2022

When that quote came out, some outlets reported it as gospel that what Marko said was happening. The Drive reached out to both Red Bull and Honda to check in on the story, though, which seems far from set in stone.

For its part, Red Bull downplayed the story and told me that nothing was agreed despite Marko's comments. Honda got back to me to confirm that "Honda will support Red Bull Powertrains in building the 2022 PU and also provide trackside and race operation support from HRC throughout the 2022 season. And we received a request from Red Bull to extend the period, however we have not yet decided at the moment."

[NL_Fer]

Maybe they are still negotiating the price Redbull needs to pay Honda for building the units. Probably Redbull wants them for free, for te return of a Honda badge on the car.

But what if Audi does return, take over RPT and Honda decides to return for another full stint? Could we see another trial of McLaren Honda?

[Wouter]

Maybe they are still negotiating the price Redbull needs to pay Honda for building the units. Probably Redbull wants them for free, for te return of a Honda badge on the car.

But what if Audi does return, take over RPT and Honda decides to return for another full stint? Could we see another trial of McLaren Honda?

.
As I said in the RBR topic a few days ago, de deal is done according to @Wazari and Helmut Marko, but Marko sad it a littlebit to early as usual. Why would RB not willing to pay for the PUs? They have money enough and it is not under the budgetcap.

Why would Honda partner with McLaren if the partnership with RB is very successful?

[mzso]

Why would RB not willing to pay for the PUs? They have money enough and it is not under the budgetcap.

Precisely, and also it would be massively unrealistic from them. Honda decided to leave, they need to sweet-talk them into staying, in whatever capacity. If Honda keeps manufacturing the engines the Honda writing should remain on the car as well.

But what if Audi does return, take over RPT

Why do people keep obsessing about this thing pulled out of thin air, I'd sooner see them buying up Haas, Alfa or Williams. Though I'm not sure why VW is even in motorsport at this point with 200 billion USD of debt...