2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Big Tea]

I’ve always found the "British bias" thing very xenophobic and should be discouraged. it is a unhealthy sneer.

Especially as Red Bulls are made and based in UK. I do not see how it can be a nationalist bias.
Ferrari made and based in Italy I can understand.

[PlatinumZealot]

The engine freeze was also pushed by Honda / RedBull. Granted it was sorta necessary to control costs but it is against the spirit of pushing the bpundaries of performance.

The engine builders will try now to spend in one year what they planned in three years to cover more ground before the freeze is in effect. After that it will be only reliability updates.

I'm wondering if Mercedes are going for a bigger turbo because they can't get the E10 fuel performance where they need it to be, hence the big turbo which will have a negative affect aero

We can use Indycar as a comparison. The F1 engines are about 840hp on E5 fuel.
Indycar uses E85, 2.2 liters, 12,000 rpm direct injection, 750hp... dual turbos Borg warner EFR 7165.
https://www.indycar.com/Fan-Info/INDYCA ... ifications

Just to keep it simple I am assuming air flow and power is a direct relation to the cross sectional area of the turbo wheels. If Indycar had a single turbocharger it would be roughly a 100mm compressor wheel and 91mm exhaust wheel. This is actually close to the estimate we made for F1 in the engine thread. So it seems that the fuel type does not affect the turbocharger size that much even going from E5 to E85. So F1 changing to E10 we should not expect much of a change in turbocharge size either.

But I am curious about the materials and the shape of the wheels.

[ispano6]

I’ve always found the "British bias" thing very xenophobic and should be discouraged. it is a unhealthy sneer.

Especially as Red Bulls are made and based in UK. I do not see how it can be a nationalist bias.
Ferrari made and based in Italy I can understand.

More like a Euro-bias with the UK mashed in. Maybe that is more to do with race start times. Or that the FIA is considered largerly European. There is the "stupid" Americans or no American drivers fast enough because European drivers start from a younger age bias. Or Asian drivers aren't fast enough because, well, they all drive like Taki!

It would be nice to see more representation in the upper echelons of the FIA and it looks to be improving.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... acuow.html

The US and China have a huge following, though I wonder why Canada, Australia, Mexico and Japan weren't surveyed given their history, engine manufacturers, and drivers in the sport.

RedBull now sponsors quite a number of Asian athletes from several sports. Maybe Albon is one of their first prominent athletes.

[Ryar]

OK let's get back on topic.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2022/02/07 ... -the-year/

Max Verstappen, the 2021 Formula 1 World Champion, was awarded the Autosport’s International Racing Driver of the Year award on Sunday.

Another feather in the cap for the Champ!

[Just_a_fan]

OK let's get back on topic.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2022/02/07 ... -the-year/

Max Verstappen, the 2021 Formula 1 World Champion, was awarded the Autosport’s International Racing Driver of the Year award on Sunday.

Another feather in the cap for the Champ!

Well done Max.

Just another 7 to go...

[Ryar]

OK let's get back on topic.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2022/02/07 ... -the-year/

Max Verstappen, the 2021 Formula 1 World Champion, was awarded the Autosport’s International Racing Driver of the Year award on Sunday.

Another feather in the cap for the Champ!

Well done Max.

Just another 7 to go...

He doesn't have 2 second a lap fast car for that to happen.
Besides, that would be the death of F1 that we so dearly love. I would be happy with one or two more for him with a fight like 2021, spread across a decade. I wish to see Charles, Lando, Sainz, Ric, Pierre and George to be champions in the next decade. F1 has been betrayed by nauseating, dominant eras. Less of it please.

[Just_a_fan]

OK let's get back on topic.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2022/02/07 ... -the-year/



Another feather in the cap for the Champ!

Well done Max.

Just another 7 to go...

He doesn't have 2 second a lap fast car for that to happen.

Ha, ha. Very good.

He does have a tame RD though...

Besides, that would be the death of F1 that we so dearly love. I would be happy with one or two more for him with a fight like 2021, spread across a decade. I wish to see Charles, Lando, Sainz, Ric, Pierre and George to be champions in the next decade. F1 has been betrayed by nauseating, dominant eras. Less of it please.

I see Lando got the British Driver of the Year award for the third time, so that's something for the "not Lewis again" brigade. Interesting to see if he or George get it next year. Of course, if either wins the 2022 title, they'll likely take the international driver award.

As for dominance, there have been periods of dominance by various teams and generally those that didn't like those teams or strongly supported another didn't like it. That's how we roll. I remember not really liking the Ferrari dominance of the early 2000s, for example. If Max and Red Bull become dominant for the next few years, will you be decrying it? I think possibly that you won't. And that's fine . I reserve the right to complain about the Red Bull being 2 seconds a lap faster than everyone else, of course.

[Ryar]

If Max and Red Bull become dominant for the next few years, will you be decrying it? I think possibly that you won't. And that's fine . I reserve the right to complain about the Red Bull being 2 seconds a lap faster than everyone else, of course.

I said this before and I say it again, I like your mind reading skills.
I would absolutely hate it if Max would be driving 2 second a lap fast RB car and dominating the years to come. Zero regret in saying it.
I like Max as an exciting, natural talent, but it would all be of no meaning if he is disappearing at the front without fighting and prevailing. It makes the rest of the talent on the grid look stupid and leave them frustrated and leaving him with hollow count of championships. Lewis himself went through that frusting time for so many years and then there was Jenson and Fernando. It would be a shame if we see don't see the young folks on the grid not having an opportunity to consistently mix it up on the top step of the podium.

[AeroDynamic]

OK let's get back on topic.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2022/02/07 ... -the-year/



Another feather in the cap for the Champ!

I think Max did enough good performances especially consistently, to be recognised for that in the vein of performance. But his antics like break checking, and not keeping it within the lines, leaves me thinking there could be better examples of driver of the year.

Well done Max.

Just another 7 to go...

He doesn't have 2 second a lap fast car for that to happen.
Besides, that would be the death of F1 that we so dearly love. I would be happy with one or two more for him with a fight like 2021, spread across a decade. I wish to see Charles, Lando, Sainz, Ric, Pierre and George to be champions in the next decade. F1 has been betrayed by nauseating, dominant eras. Less of it please.

It is true that usually they give this award to the champion each year.

But It’s not unusual for a sensational and generational great in a top team with a top car to make 2 seconds on the rest either. Part of the 2 seconds difference is in the driver. Styria 2020 qualifying emphasised as much.

If Max can be sensational enough and great enough on track (and I don’t mean in a contrived way off track by the likes of the F1 media machine for the sake of breaking monotony in F1 in looking for a suitable challenger to hype up) then he can win this award without winning the title or being in Dominant car. That would be a real feather in the cap

[Just_a_fan]

If Max and Red Bull become dominant for the next few years, will you be decrying it? I think possibly that you won't. And that's fine . I reserve the right to complain about the Red Bull being 2 seconds a lap faster than everyone else, of course.

I said this before and I say it again, I like your mind reading skills.
I would absolutely hate it if Max would be driving 2 second a lap fast RB car and dominating the years to come. Zero regret in saying it.
I like Max as an exciting, natural talent, but it would all be of no meaning if he is disappearing at the front without fighting and prevailing. It makes the rest of the talent on the grid look stupid and leave them frustrated and leaving him with hollow count of championships. Lewis himself went through that frusting time for so many years and then there was Jenson and Fernando. It would be a shame if we see don't see the young folks on the grid not having an opportunity to consistently mix it up on the top step of the podium.

I'd love to see several drivers in with a shout, but I fear that it is unlikely. We'll find out in a few weeks, I guess.

[Just_a_fan]

If Max can be sensational enough and great enough on track (and I don’t mean in a contrived way off track by the likes of the F1 media machine for the sake of breaking monotony in F1 in looking for a suitable challenger to hype up) then he can win this award without winning the title or being in Dominant car. That would be a real feather in the cap

Kimi, Jensen and Lewis all did that before winning the title, of course. As did Montoya and Alesi, but neither of those went on to take the title, of course.

[AeroDynamic]

If Max can be sensational enough and great enough on track (and I don’t mean in a contrived way off track by the likes of the F1 media machine for the sake of breaking monotony in F1 in looking for a suitable challenger to hype up) then he can win this award without winning the title or being in Dominant car. That would be a real feather in the cap

Kimi, Jensen and Lewis all did that before winning the title, of course. As did Montoya and Alesi, but neither of those went on to take the title, of course.

Montoya’s award is impressive isn’t it?

I’ve been attacked for this unpopular opinion before, but despite how great Max can be, I’m still yet to see some truly sensational drives that captivate people. When I watched F1 after the crash-phase he went through, I felt like F1 was telling me to think he’s a great rather than thinking it myself. That’s what I was talking about earlier with the contrived nature that they pump up drivers with these days.

George’s lap in Spa was, admittedly a pretty sensational lap, but even with that it felt a bit contrived, and I appreciated that Max called out the fact that the media were overlooking how much the Williams had improved. It was interesting to see Max realise how the media overhype new drivers since liberty came in.

[Wouter]

OK let's get back on topic.

https://www.grandprix247.com/2022/02/07 ... -the-year/

Max Verstappen, the 2021 Formula 1 World Champion, was awarded the Autosport’s International Racing Driver of the Year award on Sunday.

Another feather in the cap for the Champ!

[AeroDynamic]

If Max and Red Bull become dominant for the next few years, will you be decrying it? I think possibly that you won't. And that's fine . I reserve the right to complain about the Red Bull being 2 seconds a lap faster than everyone else, of course.

I said this before and I say it again, I like your mind reading skills.
I would absolutely hate it if Max would be driving 2 second a lap fast RB car and dominating the years to come. Zero regret in saying it.
I like Max as an exciting, natural talent, but it would all be of no meaning if he is disappearing at the front without fighting and prevailing. It makes the rest of the talent on the grid look stupid and leave them frustrated and leaving him with hollow count of championships. Lewis himself went through that frusting time for so many years and then there was Jenson and Fernando. It would be a shame if we see don't see the young folks on the grid not having an opportunity to consistently mix it up on the top step of the podium.

I do feel it would be hollow if a driver who was unproven against the very best on the grid in the same car, ended up in a dominant car and won several titles. Unfortunately, Red Bull have been the best at doing this, starting with Vettel, and again, a rookie that didn’t get on top of Daniel enough and then Daniel’s best resume is beating Vettel.. Vettel was considered a great for the dominant titles, so initially this made Daniel shine on his CV.. but despite Vettel being younger than Hamilton, his image of being a sensational great has plummeted. Since Daniel left RBR so has his, after Norris dominated him in the McLaren (a normal team that develops cars equally to drivers) other teammates have proved Vettel and Ricciardo’s perceived greatness may have been more car than themselves.. and maybe more relative to who their teammates were at the time.

I wouldn’t begrudge Hamilton for being in a top car, dominating, after he proved to be as great If not greater-as a rookie- against the very best established drivers in his rookie year in the Same car.

At least Vettel did something sensational though, what he did in the toro rosso in 2008 atleast suggests he was still a very top driver at one stage.

But like I said, if RBR is a dominant team, they are the most likely to produce champions in dominant cars that have been rushed through the young driver program they pioneered in the sport, who have not proven to earn such a dominant car.

[Ryar]

If Max and Red Bull become dominant for the next few years, will you be decrying it? I think possibly that you won't. And that's fine . I reserve the right to complain about the Red Bull being 2 seconds a lap faster than everyone else, of course.

I said this before and I say it again, I like your mind reading skills.
I would absolutely hate it if Max would be driving 2 second a lap fast RB car and dominating the years to come. Zero regret in saying it.
I like Max as an exciting, natural talent, but it would all be of no meaning if he is disappearing at the front without fighting and prevailing. It makes the rest of the talent on the grid look stupid and leave them frustrated and leaving him with hollow count of championships. Lewis himself went through that frusting time for so many years and then there was Jenson and Fernando. It would be a shame if we see don't see the young folks on the grid not having an opportunity to consistently mix it up on the top step of the podium.

I do feel it would be hollow if a driver who was unproven against the very best on the grid in the same car, ended up in a dominant car and won several titles. Unfortunately, Red Bull have been the best at doing this, starting with Vettel, and again, a rookie that didn’t get on top of Daniel enough and then Daniel’s best resume is beating Vettel.. Vettel was considered a great for the dominant titles, so initially this made Daniel shine on his CV.. but despite Vettel being younger than Hamilton, his image of being a sensational great has plummeted. Since Daniel left RBR so has his, after Norris dominated him in the McLaren (a normal team that develops cars equally to drivers) other teammates have proved Vettel and Ricciardo’s perceived greatness may have been more car than themselves.. and maybe more relative to who their teammates were at the time.

I wouldn’t begrudge Hamilton for being in a top car, dominating, after he proved to be as great If not greater-as a rookie- against the very best established drivers in his rookie year in the Same car.

At least Vettel did something sensational though, what he did in the toro rosso in 2008 atleast suggests he was still a very top driver at one stage.

But like I said, if RBR is a dominant team, they are the most likely to produce champions in dominant cars that have been rushed through the young driver program they pioneered in the sport, who have not proven to earn such a dominant car.

You should stop driving the threads offtopic. This is not, "Let's prove Hamilton is Great... Again" thread. You take Max, Daniel and RB to Mercedes thread and you bring Hamilton to RB thread and derail them all. If points are relevant to the topic of the thread and maintain that boundary, then it's debatable.