We're living in a police state...

[Roger the knife]

It’s time for a rant. If lying is this serious, then Bernie should be embarrassed to open his mouth. As someone who has spent his life being economical with the truth, and living off the financial benefits of such behaviour, he now has the temerity to slam McL for acting likewise. And surely building a car with flexi wings, flexi floors and such is also fraud. Deliberately driving into the opposition to win the world title, it’s all been done before, and it’s part of life, politicians are elected to lie.

We need to put this into perspective, or are we really living in a police state, where the police (Bernie and Max) are the real crooks.

The Teams should declare UDI, and to hell with the FIA and FOM

[virtuso13]

Yo bro ,you have hit the nail on the head. =D>

[wesley123]

i completely agree with you.

The fia always has such loose actions and always has the dumbest penalties possible(no im nott rying to call some previous things), it simply looks like fia has a hate on mclaren or something, as mclaren seems to be the one who always gets the punishments or problems with others.

[nae]

i completely agree with you.

+1

[DaveKillens]

In agreement. But I do not consider the environment is one of a police state, but rather a dictatorship run by some very selfish, self-centered, corrupt and vindictive people. Unless you're on incredibly firm ground, if you mess with Max or Bernie they will b---h-slap you into oblivion. And even if you are in the right, they will do everything they can to destroy you.

[outer_bongolia]

i completely agree with you.

The fia always has such loose actions and always has the dumbest penalties possible(no im nott rying to call some previous things), it simply looks like fia has a hate on mclaren or something, as mclaren seems to be the one who always gets the punishments or problems with others.

Actually the reason why McLaren will be penalized is very simple. I do not want to be a conspiracy theorist, but Mosley and Ecclestone both want a single engine supplier for F1, and their fondness of Ferrari is not a well hidden secret.

Mercedes does not want its name tarnished. Another scandal with McLaren and Mercedes will leave F1. Toyota was talking about leaving F1 if their season was uncompetitive again. Renault is also considering pulling the plug on their F1 works. That only leaves BMW, which is a smaller team compared to Ferrari and could be easy to kick out. Voila, we've got a Ferrari only F1.

This is a nightmare scenario. But the escalation of issues followed by unreasonably tough punishments by FIA towards McLaren points towards that. I do not think any other team gets this behavior.

I think McLaren and Hamilton did something stupid, and they should get grid penalties, but this is ridiculous.

[Roger the knife]

Breakaway is the only answer. Right now all the teams seem to be on the same page regarding businees procedures required, si it's time to kick Bernie in to touch, before he divides thenm again. The man can't be trusted, even Ferrari know that they will be betrayed, their secret payment to stay with the FIA was revealed asoon as it suited Bernie's needs, the man has gone too far, and it's time to move on

[wesley123]

yep, true thing.

It still is weird that all those teams still are in the formula 1, every race gets won at the green table. As team you can actually not run a car and let the drivers go on foot, then they can pretest at the fia because other teams have an advantage because they do have a car.

The teams really should leave the formula 1 and go somewhere else, like IRL or something, there it is real racing and it is getting more popular every year, same for lms and alms, think about it how much publicity you will generate if you beat audi at le mans, there are much more gains then in f1, and you are away from the fia as nor the lms nor the alms is from the fia.

[donskar]

i completely agree with you.

The fia always has such loose actions and always has the dumbest penalties possible(no im nott rying to call some previous things), it simply looks like fia has a hate on mclaren or something, as mclaren seems to be the one who always gets the punishments or problems with others.

Actually the reason why McLaren will be penalized is very simple. I do not want to be a conspiracy theorist, but Mosley and Ecclestone both want a single engine supplier for F1, and their fondness of Ferrari is not a well hidden secret.

Mercedes does not want its name tarnished. Another scandal with McLaren and Mercedes will leave F1. Toyota was talking about leaving F1 if their season was uncompetitive again. Renault is also considering pulling the plug on their F1 works. That only leaves BMW, which is a smaller team compared to Ferrari and could be easy to kick out. Voila, we've got a Ferrari only F1.

This is a nightmare scenario. But the escalation of issues followed by unreasonably tough punishments by FIA towards McLaren points towards that. I do not think any other team gets this behavior.

I think McLaren and Hamilton did something stupid, and they should get grid penalties, but this is ridiculous.

May I respectfully nominate the above for the 2009 "Mondo Bizzaro" award?

If I understand the reasoning behind this post, outer_bongolia is suggesting that Max and Bernie are orchestrating some huge conspiracy to destroy the goose that is laying so many huge golden eggs for them.

What I read is outer_bongolia saying that the FIA's goal is

a Ferrari only F1.

And I guess they want this because

Mosley and Ecclestone both want a single engine supplier for F1, and their fondness of Ferrari is not a well hidden secret.

I sense that being rational is off topic in this particular thread, but bear with me for a moment:

1) A series dominated by Ferrari, without even the hope of a competitor (McLaren kept Ferrari honest even during the M Schu era) would be BAD for F1 as a money making tool. Bernie and Spanky would be HURTING themselves!

2) If the FIA-Spanky-Bernie cabal pulled off this grand conspiracy, the major manufacturers would be ENCOURAGED to start a competing series.

3) Most important, Ferrari is now one of the most savvy marketers in the world. Enzo has been dead a long time. Ferrari the global business certainly knows that dominating a castrated F1 would NOT be a positive for their sales efforts. And Ferrari also knows that cars win marketing points - not engines.

[xpensive]

I agree with most said on this thread about the Evil-Twins, but when one gets his kicks from the greenback, I believe the other is a thoroughbred power-addict and not much else.

For whatever reason, this witch-hunt has now lost all proportions, why I think there's an obvious risk that Mercedes will join Renault and Toyota out by the end of this season.

[Ciro Pabón]

I'd say opinions are divided: some people thinks that "somebody hit the nail in the head with the hammer" but others think that "the hammer hit somebody in the head with a nail".

A cynicist would say that FIA is not an example of a police state. They're an egregious example of democracy at work. Let's face it, in modern democracy (the most perfect way found... yet) you don't have to bend the rules for powerful people to win, the rules are already made that way.

Now, every time a team is punished, somebody raises the issue that infractors shouldn't be punished and referees are in favor of the "enemies" of a team.

Oh, no, it's not a simple punishment. Always there is a more sordid story that somehow implies the team is falling victim of a complicated scheme, that we, the innocent TV viewer public do not appreciate in full.

All right, I concede some times this point of view can be true. Besides, probably Hamilton was shortchanged when trying to defend his team, following instructions he didn't issue.

However, once upon a time, you couldn't be called a sportsman until you learned to take defeat graciously. Actually, some extraordinary examples of sportmanship did their utmost to be punished when referees did not detect their own faults.

...Moss suspects the court of public opinion will be far slower to show leniency.

Yes, yes, I know Mr. Moss sometimes is out of orbit, but, in the end, what McLaren has to prove right now is NOT what are the ultimate goals of FOM, what they have to prove is that they didn't lie.

So, I don't think there is a conspiracy behind this punishment and I also think that Hamilton could be less guilty than his team.

Can I make a final pun? We do not live in a police state, but some people live in a denial state.

[WhiteBlue]

I do not know if police state is an appropriate tag for the UK but there are plenty of countries around the globe where we still enjoy considerable freedom. Just the fact that homosexuals can be mayors and party chiefs and Spanky can have his way of sexual amusement prooves that we have come a long way since Adolf. He used to have these guys gassed and burned, you know.

I guess nobody in his right mind would interfere with Lewis and Martin if they were taking liberties in private matters. But they choose to lie to the public and the media and that is a bit risky considering the the powers of the keyboard today. The hacks love to crucify the heroes when they misbehave and in this case public opinion and personal inclination would offer the same options for the PTB. There is nothing the british public enjoys more than public executions of those who are caught doing wrong. So McLaren really have no option but to take it on the chin and ride it out.

[xpensive]

Hey Belatti, is Diego Armando Maradona still considered a national hero in the land of the pampas?

The way I remember, he lied his teeth out about "the hand of God", sending England out of the WC, and got away with it?

[Scuderia_Russ]

A dictatorship works though. Democracy will not work with F1 because nothing will ever be agreed upon. The original poster is worthy of a column in the Daily Mail with that sort of hyped up rhetoric. I am surprised it has been taken seriously.

[andartop]

I so wish we didn't have a "police state" in F1: every team would cheat so we'd have a different winner on every race, every car would look so different, some would be competing with Group B rally cars, others with Pikes Peak prototypes, the drivers would be free to crash each other out, swear, lie and spit to each other, the teams would hire professional thieves to break in each other's factories, or assassins to "take out" the odd unbeatable talent..! But, best of all, we wouldn't have to listen to the same old boring "Ferrari conspiracy" BS every single time someone --- up and got punished for it..