FIA Thread

[hollus]

Interesting with the ultra-detailed part distance point scheme.

10 points for finding the flaw(s) in this particular one:

1st – 19 points
2nd – 14 points
3rd – 12 points
4th – 9 points
5th – 8 point
6th – 6 points
7th – 5 points
8th – 3 points
9th – 2 points
10th – 1 point

It hardly matters, but it takes a lot of committee work to come up with those point gaps.

[SmallSoldier]

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2022/02 ... on-meets-2

Nice report from the sensible and un-biased Joe Saward.

It remains to be seen what this means, but it is not thought likely that the federation will axe Race Director Michael Masi, as this would obviously be a sign of the FIA kowtowing to pressures from external forces, particularly as the FIA Stewards in Abu Dhabi rejected the Mercedes-Benz appeal and by doing so supported Masi’s actions, whether it was popular or not. They are the official referees of the sport and thus the FIA wants them to be respected. To remove Masi would be unwise and would create unhelpful precedents for the sport. It is far more likely that the analysis will focus on the way that the Safety Car is used, as this was the fundamental reason that Lewis Hamilton lost the World Championship. Th Safety Car rules have never been fair but with new technology there is an opportunity to find new ways to bring races under caution without the leader losing the advantage that has been built up. There may also be a change to the pitlane rules so that a driver does not suffer based on where the car is when the race goes under yellow.

Everyone feels for Lewis and what happened but some of the crusaders who are trying to mount witch-hunts against Masi need to understand – as the FIA Stewards in Abu Dhabi obviously did – that there was nothing fundamentally wrong with what the Race Director did, even if the result was patently unfair and Hamilton did not deserve to lose the race and thus the title.

This basically mirrors my position. I think MB overplayed their hand.

Many people, including current and former drivers and TV pundits share the same opinion with regards to the decision making and willing to see Masi continue. It remains to be seen if FIA would get bullied or not by Toto (I doubt if the Daimler supports it so can't say Mercedes).

It’s a polarizing situation and one that of course have people emotionally invested in the different sides of the situation… As you say, many people may agree with Masi (it’s interesting though, because making a count would be pretty hard and always debatable since who’s opinion matter more) and many people (based on what I’ve read, more than the ones that agree), disagree with how Masi handled the situation.

It’s a shame though, that we are already trying to establish a narrative that if the FIA does agree with those that think that Masi’s actions were wrong, it is because of Mercedes / Toto “bullying them”, I disagree with such a statement since it’s a cope out… If the FIA does take action against Masi is because they agree that the actions from him at the last race weren’t correct (I’m not arguing intention, simply based on what the rules are as written today)… This same argument goes for those afraid that the FIA will actually validate Masi’s actions, in which case the other camp will say that the FIA intervened to make Max a Champion.

At the end, I’m afraid that regardless of the decision there is going to be people that are leaving logic in their trash cans and are ready to assume one thing or the other based on the decision.

Given the fact that the FIA actually went to the lengths of performing an investigation (something that is sui generis for this type of situations), I will side which whatever outcome from it… If it is in favor of Masi, great! We can put it to rest and hopefully they simply put rules in place to avoid a repeat… If it’s against Masi’s call, then great! We can put it to rest and hope that rules are put in place so that we can avoid all the polemic behind it and it’s clear to all involve how this situations should be handled in the future.

[Stu]

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2022/02 ... on-meets-2

Nice report from the sensible and un-biased Joe Saward.



This basically mirrors my position. I think MB overplayed their hand.

Many people, including current and former drivers and TV pundits share the same opinion with regards to the decision making and willing to see Masi continue. It remains to be seen if FIA would get bullied or not by Toto (I doubt if the Daimler supports it so can't say Mercedes).

It’s a polarizing situation and one that of course have people emotionally invested in the different sides of the situation… As you say, many people may agree with Masi (it’s interesting though, because making a count would be pretty hard and always debatable since who’s opinion matter more) and many people (based on what I’ve read, more than the ones that agree), disagree with how Masi handled the situation.

It’s a shame though, that we are already trying to establish a narrative that if the FIA does agree with those that think that Masi’s actions were wrong, it is because of Mercedes / Toto “bullying them”, I disagree with such a statement since it’s a cope out… If the FIA does take action against Masi is because they agree that the actions from him at the last race weren’t correct (I’m not arguing intention, simply based on what the rules are as written today)… This same argument goes for those afraid that the FIA will actually validate Masi’s actions, in which case the other camp will say that the FIA intervened to make Max a Champion.

At the end, I’m afraid that regardless of the decision there is going to be people that are leaving logic in their trash cans and are ready to assume one thing or the other based on the decision.

Given the fact that the FIA actually went to the lengths of performing an investigation (something that is sui generis for this type of situations), I will side which whatever outcome from it… If it is in favor of Masi, great! We can put it to rest and hopefully they simply put rules in place to avoid a repeat… If it’s against Masi’s call, then great! We can put it to rest and hope that rules are put in place so that we can avoid all the polemic behind it and it’s clear to all involve how this situations should be handled in the future.

That is bang-on!!
Pretty much draws a line under the whole thing.

[NathanOlder]

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2022/02 ... on-meets-2

Nice report from the sensible and un-biased Joe Saward.



This basically mirrors my position. I think MB overplayed their hand.

Many people, including current and former drivers and TV pundits share the same opinion with regards to the decision making and willing to see Masi continue. It remains to be seen if FIA would get bullied or not by Toto (I doubt if the Daimler supports it so can't say Mercedes).

It’s a polarizing situation and one that of course have people emotionally invested in the different sides of the situation… As you say, many people may agree with Masi (it’s interesting though, because making a count would be pretty hard and always debatable since who’s opinion matter more) and many people (based on what I’ve read, more than the ones that agree), disagree with how Masi handled the situation.

It’s a shame though, that we are already trying to establish a narrative that if the FIA does agree with those that think that Masi’s actions were wrong, it is because of Mercedes / Toto “bullying them”, I disagree with such a statement since it’s a cope out… If the FIA does take action against Masi is because they agree that the actions from him at the last race weren’t correct (I’m not arguing intention, simply based on what the rules are as written today)… This same argument goes for those afraid that the FIA will actually validate Masi’s actions, in which case the other camp will say that the FIA intervened to make Max a Champion.

At the end, I’m afraid that regardless of the decision there is going to be people that are leaving logic in their trash cans and are ready to assume one thing or the other based on the decision.

Given the fact that the FIA actually went to the lengths of performing an investigation (something that is sui generis for this type of situations), I will side which whatever outcome from it… If it is in favor of Masi, great! We can put it to rest and hopefully they simply put rules in place to avoid a repeat… If it’s against Masi’s call, then great! We can put it to rest and hope that rules are put in place so that we can avoid all the polemic behind it and it’s clear to all involve how this situations should be handled in the future.

If it's in favour of masi, then surely he was correct and rules don't need to change ? Rules won't need to be put in place to avoid a repeat ?

[AeroDynamic]

https://joesaward.wordpress.com/2022/02 ... on-meets-2

Nice report from the sensible and un-biased Joe Saward.



This basically mirrors my position. I think MB overplayed their hand.

Many people, including current and former drivers and TV pundits share the same opinion with regards to the decision making and willing to see Masi continue. It remains to be seen if FIA would get bullied or not by Toto (I doubt if the Daimler supports it so can't say Mercedes).

It’s a polarizing situation and one that of course have people emotionally invested in the different sides of the situation… As you say, many people may agree with Masi (it’s interesting though, because making a count would be pretty hard and always debatable since who’s opinion matter more) and many people (based on what I’ve read, more than the ones that agree), disagree with how Masi handled the situation.

It’s a shame though, that we are already trying to establish a narrative that if the FIA does agree with those that think that Masi’s actions were wrong, it is because of Mercedes / Toto “bullying them”, I disagree with such a statement since it’s a cope out… If the FIA does take action against Masi is because they agree that the actions from him at the last race weren’t correct (I’m not arguing intention, simply based on what the rules are as written today)… This same argument goes for those afraid that the FIA will actually validate Masi’s actions, in which case the other camp will say that the FIA intervened to make Max a Champion.

At the end, I’m afraid that regardless of the decision there is going to be people that are leaving logic in their trash cans and are ready to assume one thing or the other based on the decision.

Given the fact that the FIA actually went to the lengths of performing an investigation (something that is sui generis for this type of situations), I will side which whatever outcome from it… If it is in favor of Masi, great! We can put it to rest and hopefully they simply put rules in place to avoid a repeat… If it’s against Masi’s call, then great! We can put it to rest and hope that rules are put in place so that we can avoid all the polemic behind it and it’s clear to all involve how this situations should be handled in the future.

Thank you. That's about as real as you can be about all of this.

Massive Respect.

[rscsr]

Interesting with the ultra-detailed part distance point scheme.

10 points for finding the flaw(s) in this particular one:

1st – 19 points
2nd – 14 points
3rd – 12 points
4th – 9 points
5th – 8 point
6th – 6 points
7th – 5 points
8th – 3 points
9th – 2 points
10th – 1 point

It hardly matters, but it takes a lot of committee work to come up with those point gaps.

Interesting that gpblog posted a different scheme: https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/104542/f ... races.html

there they show a more sensible distribution:
1st - 19 points
2nd - 14
3rd - 10
4th - 8
5th - 6
6th - 5
7th - 4
8th - 3
9th - 2
10th - 1

[Restomaniac]

What he did was fundamentally wrong because he basically consciously decided the outcome of the race and thus the title.

This is just patently false. All the race director did was let some lapped cars unlap. The overtake for the race win and the associated championship points happened on the circuit, as a typical car race as the Race Director himself noted.

Masi is a great race director who deserves full support.

If you are honestly suggesting that the result wasn’t obvious the second he allowed only 5 cars to pass due to the tyre situation on the lead 2 cars then you’ve not been paying any attention.

I can only assume you and he are being obtuse.

[xaero]

What he did was fundamentally wrong because he basically consciously decided the outcome of the race and thus the title.

This is just patently false. All the race director did was let some lapped cars unlap. The overtake for the race win and the associated championship points happened on the circuit, as a typical car race as the Race Director himself noted.

Masi is a great race director who deserves full support.

If you are honestly suggesting that the result wasn’t obvious the second he allowed only 5 cars to pass due to the tyre situation on the lead 2 cars then you’ve not been paying any attention.

I can only assume you and he are being obtuse.

When hate starts dictating logic

[Ryar]

What he did was fundamentally wrong because he basically consciously decided the outcome of the race and thus the title.

This is just patently false. All the race director did was let some lapped cars unlap. The overtake for the race win and the associated championship points happened on the circuit, as a typical car race as the Race Director himself noted.

Masi is a great race director who deserves full support.

If you are honestly suggesting that the result wasn’t obvious the second he allowed only 5 cars to pass due to the tyre situation on the lead 2 cars then you’ve not been paying any attention.

I can only assume you and he are being obtuse.

Why should Masi be bothered about the tyre situation of any car? Just because Mercedes didn't choose to pit, should give some kind of soft corner in Race Director's heart?

[AeroDynamic]

[Just_a_fan]

This is just patently false. All the race director did was let some lapped cars unlap. The overtake for the race win and the associated championship points happened on the circuit, as a typical car race as the Race Director himself noted.

Masi is a great race director who deserves full support.

If you are honestly suggesting that the result wasn’t obvious the second he allowed only 5 cars to pass due to the tyre situation on the lead 2 cars then you’ve not been paying any attention.

I can only assume you and he are being obtuse.

Why should Masi be bothered about the tyre situation of any car? Just because Mercedes didn't choose to pit, should give some kind of soft corner in Race Director's heart?

The choice not to pit was driven by the understanding of the written rules and what Masi had previously said was absolutely essential - that all of the cars must be fully unlapped if unlapping occurs before the SC is called in.

At the point the SC was put out, had the rules been followed as written and as demanded by Masi previously, they would either run out of laps or there would be a train of cars between Max and Lewis. Either way pitting would have meant losing track position and thus giving up the race. Staying out meant keeping track position and either finishing behind the SC (win race and title) or restarting for a lap or two but with a lot of cars in between Lewis and Max which would mean a good chance of winning the race and title.

It was the F1 equivalent of Pascal's Wager. Only this time, Masi came along and proved that God doesn't exist thus buggering up Pascal's choice...

[AeroDynamic]

If the FIA genuinely believe nothing untoward happened, and no mistakes were made, they would simply dismiss Mercedes's arguments and let the ICA hammer it home. They haven't done this because they recognise Mercedes – along with many of the teams – issues and arguments, are actually sound and have a lot of weight to them. The fact that Peter Bayer suggested the ICA could well indeed judge in Mercedes favour and void Abu Dhabi as a race, speaks volumes. I really do not see the bully angle at all.

To me, its the teams holding the FIA accountable where they should. Most people agree there is a problem that needs to be addressed. Some think the problem starts and ends with the rules, some think it extends beyond just the rules but also to Masi or the FIA structure. I am part of the latter.

[jjn9128]

I'm confused - can anyone explain to me? The sprint no longer sets pole for the race (Grand Prix = Sunday race) - that's now set by the Friday qualifying. So what sets the grid for the sprint?? Is it same grid order both races?

[Just_a_fan]

I'm confused - can anyone explain to me? The sprint no longer sets pole for the race (Grand Prix = Sunday race) - that's now set by the Friday qualifying. So what sets the grid for the sprint?? Is it same grid order both races?

Qualifying sets the grid for the Sprint. The result of the Sprint sets the grid for the race. Pole position for record purposes is whoever sets the fastest lap in qualifying.

So you set the fastest time in qualifying, you have pole position. You start the sprint from P1 on the grid thanks to that fast time in qualifying. Ending the sprint in P3, you then start Sunday's race from P3 on the grid even though you are, officially, the pole sitter for the weekend.

Simple, eh?

[jjn9128]

Qualifying sets the grid for the Sprint. The result of the Sprint sets the grid for the race. Pole position for record purposes is whoever sets the fastest lap in qualifying.

So you set the fastest time in qualifying, you have pole position. You start the sprint from P1 on the grid thanks to that fast time in qualifying. Ending the sprint in P3, you then start Sunday's race from P3 on the grid even though you are, officially, the pole sitter for the weekend.

Simple, eh?

The FIA statement says Friday qualifying sets the grid for the Grand Prix - which is Sunday though.

Sprint

Following a review of the three Sprint events that took place in 2021 and a recognition by all that the format created positive benefits for the sport, three Sprint events were proposed for 2022, acknowledging this as a sensible number in light of the pressures already on the teams for this season with the introduction of major changes to the regulations. The Commission unanimously approved the three Sprint events for the coming season, incorporating a number of updates to the format based on the feedback of fans, media and teams. The Sprint events will be:

Emilia Romagna Grand Prix
Austrian Grand Prix
Brazilian Grand Prix
The format changes will include:

Change of official session name from Sprint Qualifying to Sprint
Awarding World Championship points for the top eight as follows:
1st – 8 points
2nd – 7 points
3rd – 6 points
4th – 5 points
5th – 4 points
6th – 3 points
7th – 2 points
8th – 1 point
Awarding Pole Position for the Grand Prix to the fastest driver in Qualifying on Friday
Cost Cap Adjustments for Sprint events will remain unchanged from 2021.

https://www.fia.com/news/f1-commission- ... -statement