Ferrari F1-75

[Fede90]

Not conviced about new Ferrari's sides.
https://i.postimg.cc/kgQDPYPd/Senza-titolo.jpg

Aston seems have more space to flow the air from the front to the rear by the "slim zone" beneath radiators

I see what you mean with this. Anyone more skilled to comment please do so, but to me it looks like the Ferrari solution would energise the air and potentially spool up a vortex through the small undercut and over the top of the rear floor surface, where the Aston appears to have a natural airflow across that area.

Anyone?

Aston airflow may look more natural but to me it *feels* to me like there is more development potential with solutions without the massively undercut sidepods (à la Ferrari/McLarn). Take the Aston idea: the airflow is already about as clean as you can achieve with the huge undercut when it arrives at the rear; where can you achieve more gains substantially with this idea? Can always achieve better airflow over/around sidepods however with an idea like McLaren. On the other hand it seems difficult for the big undercut cars especially with the less controlled cooling louvres of AR/AM to change their bodywork much to achieve a lot better flow to the beam wing with the same concept. It looks as though it'd be easiest to find early performance but harder to develop to my untrained eye. Of course I'm happy to be wrong as it'll be an opportunity to learn!

Thanks for your explain

[LM10]

Binotto on whether Ferrari has a Plan B: "Right now there is no point in having a plan B, we are starting with a car in which we have put the best of ourselves. Looking at the data we are convinced that the car will work."

Binotto: "The F1-75 was designed to perform aerodynamically, and this objective led to other choices such as the geometry of the suspension, both front and rear. Quite extreme choices have been made but not for purely mechanical reasons, but to help the aerodynamic performance."

Binotto: "The power unit as a whole represents a milestone in our path of innovation, an important one also because the engines will be frozen for the next four seasons, so trying to achieve maximum performance was an absolute priority for us."

Binotto: "We revised the PU in all its aspects, the ICE, the valve angles, the compression ratio, and many other parameters. The work on the hybrid part had already started last year in the second half of the season, and we continued on that path to try to optimise everything."


via tami on Twitter

[outer_bongolia]

It’s going to be interesting when it’s raining at the start. The side pod bowl will add a few kilos

[wogx]

Ah, those stupid engineers with a dozen years of experience. How could they not have foreseen this? /s

[PlatinumZealot]

Having hot radiator air come out of the top of the sidepods like that will allow air to stick to the surface. Believe it or not, the kinematic viscosity of air increases with temperature, you can see this as the boundary layer on the ground increases on hot days.

https://www.engineersedge.com/images/air-viscosity.png

It's not a huge change in kV, but may make enough of a difference to delay detachment.

It’s inconsequential, or you’d have to model the cars at different times of day / cloud cover, etc.

Ferrari, I believe, is quoted that this had a positive effect in the wind tunnel, which would account for any of that.

Dude, the air coming off the engine is ~140c, different times of day/cloud cover, etc is inconsequential if anything. 140c vs 30c = 180% increase in kV.

Goldie i hope you notice the chart is in micropascal seconds!

I never once designed anything using micropascal seconds a big differentiator.

Micropascal seconds?!

No designer is going to do two different experiments for that small range.

As Hoffman said Inconsequential.

And the radiators air is not 142 degrees celcius.
A typical engine coolant temp could be 85C to maybe 110C...
The air need temp difference to cool all that so the leaving temperature is going to be less than that range.

For the charge air coolers the inlet temp is hot but it also has a much lower leaving temperature. So for the CAC the air leaving is even cooler than what you would see for radiator. Maybe as low as 45 degrees celcius.

The team would likely put the intercooler in front of the radiators because of this.

Anyway what I am saying is there hot air from those vents will not be any where near 140 degrees celcius.

[SmallSoldier]

I don't think Ferrari came by this design lightly. regardless of what Gary says about it being designed by 2 different teams that didn't meet in the middle.... judging by the haas release, I'm pretty sure Ferrari are quite aware of the benefits of a slim style sidepod. And looking at Alfa, I'm pretty sure they have some idea of the benefits of the large undercut.
The side view of the sidepods remind me of the F2002. And that was a pretty good car.

Well, it’s against the rules to share design data, so Ferrari shouldn’t have had any access to Haas or Alfa information… If they did, it would be cheating and they wouldn’t run that risk.

[DiogoBrand]

It’s going to be interesting when it’s raining at the start. The side pod bowl will add a few kilos

What about the rear wing? What about the cockpit?
There are and have always been so many places for water to collect on F1 cars, I don't know why all of the sudden this concern that these sidepods can collect half a liter of water when it's stationary under the rain.

I have spoken to Binotto and he said that on rain days they'll have 4 people holding umbrellas over the car: One for the cockpit, one for each sidepod and one for the rear wing. Can we move on now?


On a more technical note: Can someone explain what regulation was preventing teams from adding cooling louvers over the sidepods, what was the reason for it and why did they allow it again for the new regulations?

[wowgr8]

Binotto on whether Ferrari has a Plan B: "Right now there is no point in having a plan B, we are starting with a car in which we have put the best of ourselves. Looking at the data we are convinced that the car will work."

Binotto: "The F1-75 was designed to perform aerodynamically, and this objective led to other choices such as the geometry of the suspension, both front and rear. Quite extreme choices have been made but not for purely mechanical reasons, but to help the aerodynamic performance."

Binotto: "The power unit as a whole represents a milestone in our path of innovation, an important one also because the engines will be frozen for the next four seasons, so trying to achieve maximum performance was an absolute priority for us."

Binotto: "We revised the PU in all its aspects, the ICE, the valve angles, the compression ratio, and many other parameters. The work on the hybrid part had already started last year in the second half of the season, and we continued on that path to try to optimise everything."


via tami on Twitter

Tami was working overtime today kudos to her. Ferrari are proud and confident in the design and I hope it works but if it flops I wonder what that spells for the technical department. Binotto will be the scapegoat but the tech department, David Sanchez, Enrico Cardile (not 100% sure these are the guys) should also face the music

[organic]

On a more technical note: Can someone explain what regulation was preventing teams from adding cooling louvers over the sidepods, what was the reason for it and why did they allow it again for the new regulations?

I believe louvres were previously banned by the 2009 R75 volume rule. I do not know if I'm 100% correct about the precise reason for the ban but the whole 2009 rule change seemed to try to clear/clean up the mid to rear of the cars in order to reduce turbulence. The removal of these cooling louvres was part of that turbulence & rear "clean up" attempt.

[holeindalip]

Why would any rain pool on the side pod when it’ll run down the louvers?

[organic]

Why would any rain pool on the side pod when it’ll run down the louvers?

There's definitely a local minimum at the bottom of the sidepod that will not flow into any louvres and one could imagine water filling up this region:



I hope you like my paint skills

[organic]

B Sport analysis. He has a nice angle of the miniscule undercut on the F1-75.

[AtlasZX]

Could this be a thing? the undecut design have an high pressure area near the floor that is a low pressure area? and without bargeboards and vortex generators, the venturi tunnels sucks air from the undercut? where the ferrari solution create a low pressure area around the sidepods?

[JPower]

B Sport analysis. He has a nice angle of the miniscule undercut on the F1-75.

Perfect description of the sidepods IMO. Maxed out the height to push front tire wake way outside and keep it there, but used the inner sidepod scoop to push air towards the center of the car.

[NtsParadize]

On a more technical note: Can someone explain what regulation was preventing teams from adding cooling louvers over the sidepods, what was the reason for it and why did they allow it again for the new regulations?

I believe louvres were previously banned by the 2009 R75 volume rule. I do not know if I'm 100% correct about the precise reason for the ban but the whole 2009 rule change seemed to try to clear/clean up the mid to rear of the cars in order to reduce turbulence. The removal of these cooling louvres was part of that turbulence & rear "clean up" attempt.

And why did they allow it again?