Ferrari F1-75

[DragonSGC]

Perfect description of the sidepods IMO. Maxed out the height to push front tire wake way outside and keep it there, but used the inner sidepod scoop to push air towards the center of the car.

I haven't seen anyone overlay the sidepod volumes on top of the overhead view of the Ferrari yet; is anyone able to do that/ have we not received overhead views? I would imagine if B Sport says they're up to legality limit then they are but it would nonetheless be nice to get the visual representation. That first time seeing the VF-22 with the legality boxes was pretty special for me.

I like the Ferrari idea of creating a wall to the front tyre wake. The McLaren idea of attempting to push it outboard but retain slim sidepods seems naive to some extent? Perhaps I am assuming too much of my "CFD eyeballs"

That is what he suggested in his review of the MCL36. I think mentioned that he didn't understand how McLaren was going to handle the tire wake with their design. I guess we'd need the teams to actually show and explain to us to verify.

At least what some have surmised that Mclaren may have a split channel between the venturi tunnels and the chassis thats fed by the T-Tray and using that high energy air turned by the bottom part of the side pod to create outwash and blow the wake outboard, see my crude paint drawing, also just noticed my spelling mistake please don't shame me.



Seeing as this is the F1-75 thread though need to get back on topic seems Ferrari are using their faux undercut to try and do the same thing but their wider and flat sided sidepods are providing them extra protection against the wheel wake

[JPBD1990]

Could this be a thing? the undecut design have an high pressure area near the floor that is a low pressure area? and without bargeboards and vortex generators, the venturi tunnels sucks air from the undercut? where the ferrari solution create a low pressure area around the sidepods?
http://i.imgur.com/seyurAC.jpg

This!
Anyone aerodynamically minded who understands air pressures better than me please chime in, but this seems to make perfect sense?

If they’ve managed to ‘seal’ the floor edge by creating a low pressure zone, outwash the tyre wake, and down wash the top of the sidepods to energise the rear wing/beam wing, this could be a stroke of genius!

Of course it could simply be less effective than the heavily undercut cars/down wash cars like alpha and redbull are (expected to be) where there’s just inevitably more air passing directly over the diffuser.

With the size of the diffuser, I still have a gut feeling that a tighter rear sidepod/heavily undercut sidepod provides more air to the top of the diffuser which is probably the most powerful aerodynamic Device on the car in this generation - thus I think will probably work better.

But I am an OG Ferrari Stan, so I obviously HOPE this is the way to go

[e30ernest]

Could this be a thing? the undecut design have an high pressure area near the floor that is a low pressure area? and without bargeboards and vortex generators, the venturi tunnels sucks air from the undercut? where the ferrari solution create a low pressure area around the sidepods?
http://i.imgur.com/seyurAC.jpg

This!
Anyone aerodynamically minded who understands air pressures better than me please chime in, but this seems to make perfect sense?

If they’ve managed to ‘seal’ the floor edge by creating a low pressure zone, outwash the tyre wake, and down wash the top of the sidepods to energise the rear wing/beam wing, this could be a stroke of genius!

Of course it could simply be less effective than the heavily undercut cars/down wash cars like alpha and redbull are (expected to be) where there’s just inevitably more air passing directly over the diffuser.

With the size of the diffuser, I still have a gut feeling that a tighter rear sidepod/heavily undercut sidepod provides more air to the top of the diffuser which is probably the most powerful aerodynamic Device on the car in this generation - thus I think will probably work better.

But I am an OG Ferrari Stan, so I obviously HOPE this is the way to go

I might be missing something obvious, but how would that Ferrari side create a low pressure zone? I'm thinking the flow there would be very turbulent with the front tire wake going that way.

[trinidefender]

Having hot radiator air come out of the top of the sidepods like that will allow air to stick to the surface. Believe it or not, the kinematic viscosity of air increases with temperature, you can see this as the boundary layer on the ground increases on hot days.

https://www.engineersedge.com/images/air-viscosity.png

It's not a huge change in kV, but may make enough of a difference to delay detachment.

It’s inconsequential, or you’d have to model the cars at different times of day / cloud cover, etc.

Ferrari, I believe, is quoted that this had a positive effect in the wind tunnel, which would account for any of that.

Dude, the air coming off the engine is ~140c, different times of day/cloud cover, etc is inconsequential if anything. 140c vs 30c = 180% increase in kV.

It definitely does not come out the other side of the radiator at 140 degrees Celsius, not even close. If you want to make that claim then either do some math or show a source.

[mclaren111]

Looks like they can change the inlet easily...

[Stu]

Ferrari is very interesting. The side pods are very down wash near the body, but they look to be using airflow through the outer (bulbous) part of the pod for something very new (in F1, AFAIK).
There is an exhaust to this part where the rear suspension intersects the bodywork; I would say that they are using through-flow to enhance the rear aero (i.e. there is no cooler in the outer part of the pod), the cooling package is tight into the centre (alongside the chassis) and is exhausted through the upper vents); because of the bulbous outer part of the side-pod, the vented air will be largely constrained in where it flows to (much more so than the AM).

Of course, this could be total hog-wash, but so far we are seeing different solutions on every car! Pinch me, I must be dreaming!!

[Tombola37]

What’s the betting that if either Red Bull or Mercedes rock up with identical sidepods, Anderson and co. suddenly change their tune?

ANSYS should ask how these journos have managed to develop CFD eyes.

Gary Anderson lost credibility in 2019.. so dnot take him seriously.. i.m confident in the car

Why did he lose all credibility? This seems to keep coming up but I would like to know the reason behind it? Is it simply the fact he’s old school?

[Thunder]

Quick reminder. This Thread is about the Ferrari F1-75, not Gary Anderson's credibility.

[Gecko]

Perfect description of the sidepods IMO. Maxed out the height to push front tire wake way outside and keep it there, but used the inner sidepod scoop to push air towards the center of the car.

I haven't seen anyone overlay the sidepod volumes on top of the overhead view of the Ferrari yet; is anyone able to do that/ have we not received overhead views? I would imagine if B Sport says they're up to legality limit then they are but it would nonetheless be nice to get the visual representation. That first time seeing the VF-22 with the legality boxes was pretty special for me.

I like the Ferrari idea of creating a wall to the front tyre wake. The McLaren idea of attempting to push it outboard but retain slim sidepods seems naive to some extent? Perhaps I am assuming too much of my "CFD eyeballs"

That is what he suggested in his review of the MCL36. I think mentioned that he didn't understand how McLaren was going to handle the tire wake with their design. I guess we'd need the teams to actually show and explain to us to verify.

I think that is precisely where McLaren (and Williams) actually achieves that better. It takes the air going over the sidepod, pulls it down, and that displaces the wheel wake sideways. The Ferrari concept pushes the wake sideways intially, but it it will be pulled back in onto the beam wing as the sidepod tapers back.

[jagunx51]

is there any rules about wastegate pipe exit?

https://i.imgur.com/jlOJ4vF.png

Yes, here it is

3.8.2 Exhaust Tailpipe
Bodywork declared as “Exhaust Tailpipe” must:
a. Lie within the union of RV-TAIL and RV-TAIL-EXH.
Furthermore, when considering both sides of the car:
b. Over its last 150mm, the Exhaust Tailpipe must comprise of a single tailpipe and its
minimal supports.

I mean the wastegate pipe ..... so far, only Ferrari has it joining the main pipe far outside the bodywork .... Or, is it related to PU performance?

https://i.imgur.com/wTAvor1.jpeg

just found it

An unusual configuration for the wastegate and exhaust pipework has been chosen too (blue arrow), as where we have seen others connect the wastegate pipeworks to the main exhaust tailpipe upstream, Ferrari has opted to present it externally.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferr ... w/8262554/

[jumpingfish]

In Fiorano

[Emag]

B Sport analysis. He has a nice angle of the miniscule undercut on the F1-75.

Perfect description of the sidepods IMO. Maxed out the height to push front tire wake way outside and keep it there, but used the inner sidepod scoop to push air towards the center of the car.

I haven't seen anyone overlay the sidepod volumes on top of the overhead view of the Ferrari yet; is anyone able to do that/ have we not received overhead views? I would imagine if B Sport says they're up to legality limit then they are but it would nonetheless be nice to get the visual representation. That first time seeing the VF-22 with the legality boxes was pretty special for me.

I like the Ferrari idea of creating a wall to the front tyre wake. The McLaren idea of attempting to push it outboard but retain slim sidepods seems naive to some extent? Perhaps I am assuming too much of my "CFD eyeballs"

McLaren hid a lot of things from their car. But the consensus currently remains that the trick McLaren is using to generate outwash and push the tire wake away, lies on that little slot they have at the edge of the tunnel entrance.

They might be using that to channel air towards the sidepods which then push it outwards. And then there has to be something they hid on the floor's edge which helps in this regard as well.

[JPBD1990]

I know this is not a comparison thread so I will make one post about it only.

The absolute juxtaposition of the merc vs Ferrari concept makes me worry. One simply has to, based on recent years, assume Mercedes’ have got it right or near enough, which by extension means Ferrari have not.

In terms of technically, it just seems every other team has prioritised air over the floor and diffuser much, much more.

[Morteza]

[Emag]

I know this is not a comparison thread so I will make one post about it only.

The absolute juxtaposition of the merc vs Ferrari concept makes me worry. One simply has to, based on recent years, assume Mercedes’ have got it right or near enough, which by extension means Ferrari have not.

In terms of technically, it just seems every other team has prioritised air over the floor and diffuser much, much more.

As mentioned prior in a "mini" debate, there is usually more than one way of getting things right. Back in 2017-2018, Mercedes and Ferrari couldn't be more different, yet they were very competitive on different areas.

We just have to wait and see, pointless in trying to speculate what will work and will not just by looking at the cars.