Haas VF-22

[LM10]

For a car that's fairly refined everywhere else I'm surprised at how basic (and big) the sidepods are, they look like they're from the FOM model but with no big undercut

Ferrari having issues with cooling or reliability? The Alfa also has fairly plump sidepods

I know this isn't a direct comparison, but here the flat top and similar louvre usage is evident
https://maxf1.net/wp-content/uploads/20 ... jpg?x78659
https://i.imgur.com/XMGKzV0.png

Why are you so pessimistic and almost searching for an issue on the Ferrari or the Ferrari PU all the time?

The Ferrari PU has a completely different cooling layout to others. No center cooling, so naturally their airbox is going to be smaller and on the other hand the sidepods wider. Also, it’s been told many times that teams seem to have chosen wider sidepods this season. Binotto told they have room left and could have packaged tighter, but purposely didn’t.

[jumpingfish]

Will the CoG be lower compared to other non-Ferrari PU teams?
viewtopic.php?p=1032619#p1032619

[basti313]

I don't know.

They have an intriguing spine exhaust.. but relative to the ferrari side pods, they have less louvres. Maybe if Ferrari's power and concept really is the way to go, the Haas might be fighting for a podium sometimes?

I do not see the innovations you claim. Distributing openings over the bodywork in every place is no innovation. This is just managing the problem and every vent is just a new problem in aero.

When speaking about innovations, "no vents" is THE innovation. If Merc, McLaren, maybe RedBull get the concept of heat management right, then we again have F1 and F1.5....this time well visible by the number of crazy venting slits in the bodywork.

What are you even talking about? The vents are part of the aerodynamic concept. They’re there primarily for aero purposes. It’s because those teams have chosen to do it, not because they try to solve problems.

No. No team would chose for any other vent except the rear end vent around the exhaust if they can. Similar to the vents on the cockpit sides in the past, you close whatever you can and you close the vents in the front first.

It is very simple: You want to direct the hot air into the area between the rear wing and beam wing and nowhere else. Any hot and disturbed air that goes on to the rear wing is hurting the performance of the rear wing.

Exactly this is what Binotto is talking about: They make the airbox slim to get clean air to the rear wing.

If Haas now has to let hot air out at the top directly in front of the rear wing this is a killer. This is why they use this fin cape to direct the hot air down, below the rear wing.
I simply can not see any good in distributing vents over the car. Every vent makes it harder to control the airflow and needs workarounds to direct it.

[basti313]

A legal hole was never a good hole in F1 so far.

F-duct? S-duct?

Thank you, I had the same idea when writing. But this is a duct, not a hole. Happy to hear other ideas

[JPower]

No. No team would chose for any other vent except the rear end vent around the exhaust if they can. Similar to the vents on the cockpit sides in the past, you close whatever you can and you close the vents in the front first.

It is very simple: You want to direct the hot air into the area between the rear wing and beam wing and nowhere else. Any hot and disturbed air that goes on to the rear wing is hurting the performance of the rear wing.

Exactly this is what Binotto is talking about: They make the airbox slim to get clean air to the rear wing.

If Haas now has to let hot air out at the top directly in front of the rear wing this is a killer. This is why they use this fin cape to direct the hot air down, below the rear wing.
I simply can not see any good in distributing vents over the car. Every vent makes it harder to control the airflow and needs workarounds to direct it.

That's good to know. Obviously Haas and others don't agree.

[LM10]

I do not see the innovations you claim. Distributing openings over the bodywork in every place is no innovation. This is just managing the problem and every vent is just a new problem in aero.

When speaking about innovations, "no vents" is THE innovation. If Merc, McLaren, maybe RedBull get the concept of heat management right, then we again have F1 and F1.5....this time well visible by the number of crazy venting slits in the bodywork.

What are you even talking about? The vents are part of the aerodynamic concept. They’re there primarily for aero purposes. It’s because those teams have chosen to do it, not because they try to solve problems.

No. No team would chose for any other vent except the rear end vent around the exhaust if they can. Similar to the vents on the cockpit sides in the past, you close whatever you can and you close the vents in the front first.

It is very simple: You want to direct the hot air into the area between the rear wing and beam wing and nowhere else. Any hot and disturbed air that goes on to the rear wing is hurting the performance of the rear wing.

Exactly this is what Binotto is talking about: They make the airbox slim to get clean air to the rear wing.

If Haas now has to let hot air out at the top directly in front of the rear wing this is a killer. This is why they use this fin cape to direct the hot air down, below the rear wing.
I simply can not see any good in distributing vents over the car. Every vent makes it harder to control the airflow and needs workarounds to direct it.

I’m not talking about the vents directly in front of the rear wing like in case of Haas. I mean the vents on the sidepod. As for Ferrari for example there seems to be a reason and a theory why they put the vents into the tub region of the sidepod.

Or let’s talk about Aston Martin which also has vents on the sidepod. That car has almost zero outlet around the exhaust. Why have they chosen to put vents on the sidepods instead of opening up at the back a bit?

[Sieper]

Will the CoG be lower compared to other non-Ferrari PU teams?
viewtopic.php?p=1032619#p1032619

Probably yes. Less centerline cooling means less weight above the engine, and more next to it, which is lower down. AMR seems to have the most weight up the highest from all teams sofar.

[PhillipM]

I'm fairly certain they don't hand them radiators as well. They just give them data on cooling requirements.

They can, but they can also outline recommendations, or sell them as a package as part of the engine supply.

[PlatinumZealot]

For a car that's fairly refined everywhere else I'm surprised at how basic (and big) the sidepods are, they look like they're from the FOM model but with no big undercut

Ferrari having issues with cooling or reliability? The Alfa also has fairly plump sidepods

I know this isn't a direct comparison, but here the flat top and similar louvre usage is evident
https://maxf1.net/wp-content/uploads/20 ... jpg?x78659
https://i.imgur.com/XMGKzV0.png

It's just pre-season. Aim is to dial in a few things first. The car will develop.

[molina]

What are you even talking about? The vents are part of the aerodynamic concept. They’re there primarily for aero purposes. It’s because those teams have chosen to do it, not because they try to solve problems.

No. No team would chose for any other vent except the rear end vent around the exhaust if they can. Similar to the vents on the cockpit sides in the past, you close whatever you can and you close the vents in the front first.

It is very simple: You want to direct the hot air into the area between the rear wing and beam wing and nowhere else. Any hot and disturbed air that goes on to the rear wing is hurting the performance of the rear wing.

Exactly this is what Binotto is talking about: They make the airbox slim to get clean air to the rear wing.

If Haas now has to let hot air out at the top directly in front of the rear wing this is a killer. This is why they use this fin cape to direct the hot air down, below the rear wing.
I simply can not see any good in distributing vents over the car. Every vent makes it harder to control the airflow and needs workarounds to direct it.

I’m not talking about the vents directly in front of the rear wing like in case of Haas. I mean the vents on the sidepod. As for Ferrari for example there seems to be a reason and a theory why they put the vents into the tub region of the sidepod.

Or let’s talk about Aston Martin which also has vents on the sidepod. That car has almost zero outlet around the exhaust. Why have they chosen to put vents on the sidepods instead of opening up at the back a bit?

As always, compromise.

I agree with the above explanation on that opening holes is always a bad idea but being a bad idea still can be a good reason to have them if they can channel more free air through the center area due to having a tight airbox.

Also, opening/closing vents is an easy way of playing with cooling. On circuits less demanding they can just close all of them and won't have this downside plus they will still have a slim airbox.

[godlameroso]

Add HAAS to the downslope inlet gang. Very Ferrari, Mercedes, Williams, AMR like.

[Fer.Fan]

https://i.postimg.cc/SxLzccvm/ojir-VF22 ... 8s-XWk.jpg

Massive load on front wing, Haas are confident regarding downforce. If you compare with others teams their load on front wing is just massive.

[godlameroso]

https://i.postimg.cc/SxLzccvm/ojir-VF22 ... 8s-XWk.jpg

Massive load on front wing, Haas are confident regarding downforce. If you compare with others teams their load on front wing is just massive.

Notice the main plane has an upturned lip across the entire span of the leading edge. Bellmouth style converging duct to really cram the airflow from below.

[ryaan2904]

For a car that's fairly refined everywhere else I'm surprised at how basic (and big) the sidepods are, they look like they're from the FOM model but with no big undercut

Ferrari having issues with cooling or reliability? The Alfa also has fairly plump sidepods

I know this isn't a direct comparison, but here the flat top and similar louvre usage is evident
https://maxf1.net/wp-content/uploads/20 ... jpg?x78659
https://i.imgur.com/XMGKzV0.png

Major brit journalist vibe here. How can you know Ferrari are having cooling issues?
Assuming something with the ferrari PU design requires sidepod cooling is one thing, straightaway assuming an issue? Wrong attitude mate

[ryaan2904]

Will the CoG be lower compared to other non-Ferrari PU teams?
viewtopic.php?p=1032619#p1032619

Probably yes. Less centerline cooling means less weight above the engine, and more next to it, which is lower down. AMR seems to have the most weight up the highest from all teams sofar.

Wait till you see the alpine