Red Bull RB18

[SmallSoldier]

Redbull has a risk of overheating. The area under the oracle logo will be fried quite often.
They are pushing the limits for sure. Normally the radiator is tilted forward in the sidepods, with the sidepod having reasonable volume for other equipment and for hot air to flow around and out.
This design is as if all the equipment was crammed together then they scalloped that volume that's normally before the radiators.
Fastest car on the grid for sure, based on the floor, the floor vortex generator end plates, the sidepod wing, the undercut, the beam wing, the diffuser, the rear brake ducts... But most reliable and driveable? I think that is the bigger mystery with this machine.
The Mercedes car appears more conservative, but it has equally small sidepods, but most of all the design seems more robust and it just appears to be less aero sensitive.
This indeed is a very extreme and precise design. Nothing was spared. Even the front wheel hub and pull rods are extremely clean and light and low drag.

Very hard to question reliability after the amount of laps they did today.

[Jozsusz]

Redbull has a risk of overheating. The area under the oracle logo will be fried quite often.
They are pushing the limits for sure. Normally the radiator is tilted forward in the sidepods, with the sidepod having reasonable volume for other equipment and for hot air to flow around and out.
This design is as if all the equipment was crammed together then they scalloped that volume that's normally before the radiators.
Fastest car on the grid for sure, based on the floor, the floor vortex generator end plates, the sidepod wing, the undercut, the beam wing, the diffuser, the rear brake ducts... But most reliable and driveable? I think that is the bigger mystery with this machine.
The Mercedes car appears more conservative, but it has equally small sidepods, but most of all the design seems more robust and it just appears to be less aero sensitive.
This indeed is a very extreme and precise design. Nothing was spared. Even the front wheel hub and pull rods are extremely clean and light and low drag.

And what if the Merc is the fastest?
How do you know this? Can you see the airflow?

[trinidefender]

Redbull has a risk of overheating. The area under the oracle logo will be fried quite often.
They are pushing the limits for sure. Normally the radiator is tilted forward in the sidepods, with the sidepod having reasonable volume for other equipment and for hot air to flow around and out.
This design is as if all the equipment was crammed together then they scalloped that volume that's normally before the radiators.
Fastest car on the grid for sure, based on the floor, the floor vortex generator end plates, the sidepod wing, the undercut, the beam wing, the diffuser, the rear brake ducts... But most reliable and driveable? I think that is the bigger mystery with this machine.
The Mercedes car appears more conservative, but it has equally small sidepods, but most of all the design seems more robust and it just appears to be less aero sensitive.
This indeed is a very extreme and precise design. Nothing was spared. Even the front wheel hub and pull rods are extremely clean and light and low drag.

Without trying to sound facetious, what experience are you basing your opinion on?

Absolutely none. All the people who work as aerodynamicists as their day job say you can't judge how much downforce a car will make just looking at it.

It's clear that other cars could have tightened up certain parts of their bodywork but didn't. Ferrari and McLaren are good examples of this. Looks like the sidepods were designed to push airflow outboards. Red bull is just running a different concept.

[AriaanGert]

Redbull has a risk of overheating. The area under the oracle logo will be fried quite often.
They are pushing the limits for sure. Normally the radiator is tilted forward in the sidepods, with the sidepod having reasonable volume for other equipment and for hot air to flow around and out.
This design is as if all the equipment was crammed together then they scalloped that volume that's normally before the radiators.
Fastest car on the grid for sure, based on the floor, the floor vortex generator end plates, the sidepod wing, the undercut, the beam wing, the diffuser, the rear brake ducts... But most reliable and driveable? I think that is the bigger mystery with this machine.
The Mercedes car appears more conservative, but it has equally small sidepods, but most of all the design seems more robust and it just appears to be less aero sensitive.
This indeed is a very extreme and precise design. Nothing was spared. Even the front wheel hub and pull rods are extremely clean and light and low drag.

Without trying to sound facetious, what experience are you basing your opinion on?

It sounds quite logical to me. We know that Newey likes to package very tightly. He has overdone that a few times, so this would not be a surprise.
On the other hand: it doesn't look so tightly packaged to me. When you look from above the side pods seem large enough, and the whole car looks less tight than the Mercedes.

[Hoffman900]

We also have to remember Adrian is just a technical lead. If his engineer subordinates say not to tighten it up anymore, then he won’t. We’re well beyond the era of Adrian sketching things out and going with that, and taking a stab at cooling requirements.

Same goes for all the teams.

They all designed the most aggressive package that their chosen concept allows them to. It’s the same for everyone.

[Ryar]

Redbull has a risk of overheating. The area under the oracle logo will be fried quite often.
They are pushing the limits for sure. Normally the radiator is tilted forward in the sidepods, with the sidepod having reasonable volume for other equipment and for hot air to flow around and out.
This design is as if all the equipment was crammed together then they scalloped that volume that's normally before the radiators.
Fastest car on the grid for sure, based on the floor, the floor vortex generator end plates, the sidepod wing, the undercut, the beam wing, the diffuser, the rear brake ducts... But most reliable and driveable? I think that is the bigger mystery with this machine.
The Mercedes car appears more conservative, but it has equally small sidepods, but most of all the design seems more robust and it just appears to be less aero sensitive.
This indeed is a very extreme and precise design. Nothing was spared. Even the front wheel hub and pull rods are extremely clean and light and low drag.

Without trying to sound facetious, what experience are you basing your opinion on?

It sounds quite logical to me. We know that Newey likes to package very tightly. He has overdone that a few times, so this would not be a surprise.
On the other hand: it doesn't look so tightly packaged to me. When you look from above the side pods seem large enough, and the whole car looks less tight than the Mercedes.

In fact, W13 seems far more tightly packaged than W12 whereas RB18 appears more conservative in packaging as there is a lot of body work at play for seemingly, aero purposes providing more room for ancillaries. It's nowhere as tight as RB16B was.

[Jambier]

Without trying to sound facetious, what experience are you basing your opinion on?

It sounds quite logical to me. We know that Newey likes to package very tightly. He has overdone that a few times, so this would not be a surprise.
On the other hand: it doesn't look so tightly packaged to me. When you look from above the side pods seem large enough, and the whole car looks less tight than the Mercedes.

In fact, W13 seems far more tightly packaged than W12 whereas RB18 appears more conservative in packaging as there is a lot of body work at play for seemingly, aero purposes providing more room for ancillaries. It's nowhere as tight as RB16B was.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMR96LHXoAU ... ame=medium

Because Mercedes is conservative and basically stayed on previous year goals of a tight packaging

Whereas Aston, Alpine, Ferrari or Red Bull tried different things with the sidepods

Thightest sidepod is a choice this year not a goal for all IMO

[PlatinumZealot]

More than anti-dive, this setup, if my mind doesn't fool me, will work diving more than a "neutral" setup. In other words: I see an "anti-anti-dive".

Yup it will work when the car is diving, that's when Newey's team want the effects they're after for sure.. Still it's certainly anti-dive if we think of kinetics. There is more compression of the spring for every inch of dive (pull rod) and the mounts also take any sideways component of the force. So the car dives less.

Kinematically, for aero reasons, maybe less nose movement, or maybe they want to tilt the wheel shrouds back a little or something or even the wishbone itself.. Just guessing of course.

Layman here, could the reason for the novel suspension geometry be to counter porpoising?

The dampers would mainly do that job. Porpoising is really an under-damped oscillation (whether from suspension or from aero). So the dampers would mainly control that problem. The root cause of that problem though is above my knowledge at the moment.

[Hoffman900]

It sounds quite logical to me. We know that Newey likes to package very tightly. He has overdone that a few times, so this would not be a surprise.
On the other hand: it doesn't look so tightly packaged to me. When you look from above the side pods seem large enough, and the whole car looks less tight than the Mercedes.

In fact, W13 seems far more tightly packaged than W12 whereas RB18 appears more conservative in packaging as there is a lot of body work at play for seemingly, aero purposes providing more room for ancillaries. It's nowhere as tight as RB16B was.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMR96LHXoAU ... ame=medium

Because Mercedes is conservative and basically stayed on previous year goals of a tight packaging

Whereas Aston, Alpine, Ferrari or Red Bull tried different things with the sidepods

Thightest sidepod is a choice this year not a goal for all IMO

Tightest isn’t conservative though.

The goal is air shaping and the rules are so different, that what worked before may not now. Remember, everything that comes before dictates what happens after. The entire front end concept is different enough that you can’t look at last year’s mid section and carry it over. Also that mid section if the car dictates what happens at the rear.

I think they’re all aggressive choices, just a different in how they go about it.

[Hoffman900]

Yup it will work when the car is diving, that's when Newey's team want the effects they're after for sure.. Still it's certainly anti-dive if we think of kinetics. There is more compression of the spring for every inch of dive (pull rod) and the mounts also take any sideways component of the force. So the car dives less.

Kinematically, for aero reasons, maybe less nose movement, or maybe they want to tilt the wheel shrouds back a little or something or even the wishbone itself.. Just guessing of course.

Layman here, could the reason for the novel suspension geometry be to counter porpoising?

The dampers would mainly do that job. Porpoising is really an under-damped oscillation (whether from suspension or from aero). So the dampers would mainly control that problem. The root cause of that problem though is above my knowledge at the moment.

My favorite answer in engineering / science: “it depends” or “yes, no, maybe”.

Where it’s occuring can give some clue (high speed vs low speed), but it can still be a combination of the two.

[skwdenyer]

Without trying to sound facetious, what experience are you basing your opinion on?

It sounds quite logical to me. We know that Newey likes to package very tightly. He has overdone that a few times, so this would not be a surprise.
On the other hand: it doesn't look so tightly packaged to me. When you look from above the side pods seem large enough, and the whole car looks less tight than the Mercedes.

In fact, W13 seems far more tightly packaged than W12 whereas RB18 appears more conservative in packaging as there is a lot of body work at play for seemingly, aero purposes providing more room for ancillaries. It's nowhere as tight as RB16B was.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FMR96LHXoAU ... ame=medium

Given the comment earlier about "wait for Bahrain", those sidepods look remarkably as if they are dummies, installed over the top of far slimmer "real ones" - they remind me less of an F1 car in testing, and more of the sort of camouflage panels historically used by road car manufacturers to mask the shape of new cars under test.

[Bandit1216]

From a first approximation, I don't see the anti-dive as being so high. The lower wishbone is also tilted back as well which reduces the anti-dive effect drastically.

https://dm2306files.storage.live.com/y4 ... pmode=none

This baffles me. Looks like neutral ackerman, quite some camber, but huge caster. But why? I would think with ground effect cars, one would want minimum roll and pitch, but caster hints at high roll imo.

[dren]

From a first approximation, I don't see the anti-dive as being so high. The lower wishbone is also tilted back as well which reduces the anti-dive effect drastically.

https://dm2306files.storage.live.com/y4 ... pmode=none

This baffles me. Looks like neutral ackerman, quite some camber, but huge caster. But why? I would think with ground effect cars, one would want minimum roll and pitch, but caster hints at high roll imo.

The side profile in that illustration Tim Wright put together suggests a downwash aero component for the links.

[dren]

Redbull has a risk of overheating. The area under the oracle logo will be fried quite often.
They are pushing the limits for sure. Normally the radiator is tilted forward in the sidepods, with the sidepod having reasonable volume for other equipment and for hot air to flow around and out.
This design is as if all the equipment was crammed together then they scalloped that volume that's normally before the radiators.
Fastest car on the grid for sure, based on the floor, the floor vortex generator end plates, the sidepod wing, the undercut, the beam wing, the diffuser, the rear brake ducts... But most reliable and driveable? I think that is the bigger mystery with this machine.
The Mercedes car appears more conservative, but it has equally small sidepods, but most of all the design seems more robust and it just appears to be less aero sensitive.
This indeed is a very extreme and precise design. Nothing was spared. Even the front wheel hub and pull rods are extremely clean and light and low drag.

Without trying to sound facetious, what experience are you basing your opinion on?

It's all based on the ellipse.

[the EDGE]

From a first approximation, I don't see the anti-dive as being so high. The lower wishbone is also tilted back as well which reduces the anti-dive effect drastically.

https://dm2306files.storage.live.com/y4 ... pmode=none

This baffles me. Looks like neutral ackerman, quite some camber, but huge caster. But why? I would think with ground effect cars, one would want minimum roll and pitch, but caster hints at high roll imo.

The race say it’s to try to replicate the effect of POU suspension that’s now outlawed, lowering the front when you apply lock