FIA Thread

[chrisc90]

I still cant understand why they dont have 1 panel of stewards across the whole season.

The issues with last season for a LOT of teams, was the consistency of the decisions being made, and the penalties that were given (which is above Masi).

Allowing different teams of stewards or RD's only opens up the goal posts for differing interpretations of the rulings and/or stewards making different decisions between the different panels.

What would have been better, in my opinion, would be to have 2-3 Race Directors, and have the SAME panel of stewards across the season. Together with adding in a guy to monitor teams radios who teams can ask questions to etc. That person can then relay the message/concern onto the Race director panel for consideration.

This would completely stop any teams having a influence on the RD's decision making, and having to deal with team bosses shouting, or hinting at ways in which they want the race handled.

[Wouter]

But it wasn't personal bias, Masi had no reason to change his decision from right to wrong did he?

It was F1 who wanted the extra money from Max WDC. Michael's bosses, and the stewards' bosses.

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Could you maybe explain what you mean by this?

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F1 has gained a lot from a new, fresh WDC with different appeal hasn't it. Lots of new fans, clicks, follows, subscriptions, fans from DTS and wherever, who identify more easily with a young white guy who's pretty straightforward, into hard racing, boxing and all that. And the change is just adding appeal on its own, instead of boring old Lewis and Mercedes for the 6/8th time in a row.

So you can imagine how the F1 money people were looking at the situation: Max right there but just with those lapped cars, and then omg Michael says they won't unlap!! Frick!! And there are those tempting, tempting 3-4 minutes while they clear the track...

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So according to you it was F1 and Michael's bosses and the stewards' bosses who wanted the extra money from Max WDC .
According to me Masi was paid by the FIA. So everyone including the FIA wanted what he did and now the same people fired him? Pretty ungrateful, don't you think?

[Just_a_fan]

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Could you maybe explain what you mean by this?

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F1 has gained a lot from a new, fresh WDC with different appeal hasn't it. Lots of new fans, clicks, follows, subscriptions, fans from DTS and wherever, who identify more easily with a young white guy who's pretty straightforward, into hard racing, boxing and all that. And the change is just adding appeal on its own, instead of boring old Lewis and Mercedes for the 6/8th time in a row.

So you can imagine how the F1 money people were looking at the situation: Max right there but just with those lapped cars, and then omg Michael says they won't unlap!! Frick!! And there are those tempting, tempting 3-4 minutes while they clear the track...

.
So according to you it was F1 and Michael's bosses and the stewards' bosses who wanted the extra money from Max WDC .
According to me Masi was paid by the FIA. So everyone including the FIA wanted what he did and now the same people fired him? Pretty ungrateful, don't you think?

It didn't go to plan which made the FIA look stupid. If you believe the conspiracy hypothesis types.

[izzy]

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F1 has gained a lot from a new, fresh WDC with different appeal hasn't it. Lots of new fans, clicks, follows, subscriptions, fans from DTS and wherever, who identify more easily with a young white guy who's pretty straightforward, into hard racing, boxing and all that. And the change is just adding appeal on its own, instead of boring old Lewis and Mercedes for the 6/8th time in a row.

So you can imagine how the F1 money people were looking at the situation: Max right there but just with those lapped cars, and then omg Michael says they won't unlap!! Frick!! And there are those tempting, tempting 3-4 minutes while they clear the track...

.
So according to you it was F1 and Michael's bosses and the stewards' bosses who wanted the extra money from Max WDC .
According to me Masi was paid by the FIA. So everyone including the FIA wanted what he did and now the same people fired him? Pretty ungrateful, don't you think?

Yes they sacrificed him. Of course now they are going to look after him, let's see.

And it's not 'according to me', it's the only thing that makes sense isn't it?

I mean start from how his initial decision WAS going to have the race end under green. Add in that he was the Race Director who was used to politely declining requests from teams multiple times every race.

Then explain why he would change his perfect, legal decision to the obviously illegal, nightmare one we got? One that he had several minutes to consider.

And then factor in how the new FIA Head of Single Seaters Peter Bayer lied about the race otherwise ending under the SC and about MM having 'seconds' to decide, and the same with for example Martin Brundle and other media insiders saying the same thing, what have we got? I mean, explain it some other way go on

[NathanOlder]

If I understand correctly, Masi was allowed to make his own decisions during the SC if he had a good reason to do so.

I don't see it. He never had the clearance to do what he did in the manner he did it. He had to let all the cars unlap, any cars means all of them, if it was meant as any number of cars, it would have said any number of cars. Its like the same as saying if anyone is French (just as an example) please leave the room. It doesn't mean half the French people , it means all of them. Theres no 2 ways about it, Masi screwed up many times and the final one was so bad, he rightly paid the price with his job. Its done now , lets move on and hope we never see a repeat of 2021 ever again.

[shamyakovic]

If I understand correctly, Masi was allowed to make his own decisions during the SC if he had a good reason to do so.

I don't see it. He never had the clearance to do what he did in the manner he did it. He had to let all the cars unlap, any cars means all of them, if it was meant as any number of cars, it would have said any number of cars. Its like the same as saying if anyone is French (just as an example) please leave the room. It doesn't mean half the French people , it means all of them. Theres no 2 ways about it, Masi screwed up many times and the final one was so bad, he rightly paid the price with his job. Its done now , lets move on and hope we never see a repeat of 2021 ever again.

Agree

[Ryar]

[Big Tea]

Should we maybe have a chat about the pros and cons on not allowing lapped cars to 'unlap'? they still fall under the blue flag rule, and the fact they have been lapped means the cars wishing to pas are faster. If they want to add to the 'show' in other ways why not this?

I am not pushing it, just saying have we thought it through

[Jolle]

When having discussions like these, it always helps to back to the principles. Formula one is called formula one and not balance of performance one because in it's core its a completion where everybody competes under the same rules. What the rule is is less important, as long as everybody are held to the same standerd. Of course, the last race this didn't happen.

As for new safety car rules, as long as the rules are clear and the same for every competitor, it's fair game. My guess the reason that lapped cars could unlap themselves comes from the wish to have the whole field line up once again to have some extra excitement. The rules could also be that until 75% of the race cars need to unlap and the last 25% lapped cars should fall back. Doesn't matter in the lap count.

[AeroDynamic]

Masi out, Freitas and Wittich in
POSTED BY STEFAN JOHANSSON · FEBRUARY 26, 2022

"I’m glad they did it, There seems to be mixed feelings in the F1 paddock, but I have the feeling that comes down more to what personal relationship some people had with him, rather than looking objectively at the job he did since he took on the role."



Full Article and Source

[Big Tea]

When having discussions like these, it always helps to back to the principles. Formula one is called formula one and not balance of performance one because in it's core its a completion where everybody competes under the same rules. What the rule is is less important, as long as everybody are held to the same standerd. Of course, the last race this didn't happen.

As for new safety car rules, as long as the rules are clear and the same for every competitor, it's fair game. My guess the reason that lapped cars could unlap themselves comes from the wish to have the whole field line up once again to have some extra excitement. The rules could also be that until 75% of the race cars need to unlap and the last 25% lapped cars should fall back. Doesn't matter in the lap count.

I agree that what everyone wants above all is to know what is likely to happen in the next few laps so they can adjust their plans accordingly. This I think goes without saying and must be the main aim.

What I think had some baring on the unlapping part is what used to happen at one time of formation finishes for the photographers. (not just F1)

Before good quality TV coverage the most seen photo op was the winner finishing. Some cars conscious of this would take the opportunity to get in on the shot. TBH I can not cite any actual events, it just hangs around in my mind that on one or two occasions there was a photo of the winner amongst a gaggle of backmarkers taking the opportunity for some publicity and a car still trying to catch the leader unable to get through the mess.
This, along with the banning of anyone on the track at the end, which at one time was standard practice to wave a winner home

It is possible I am confusing this with some other series though.

[Pat Pending]

When having discussions like these, it always helps to back to the principles. Formula one is called formula one and not balance of performance one because in it's core its a completion where everybody competes under the same rules. What the rule is is less important, as long as everybody are held to the same standerd. Of course, the last race this didn't happen.

As for new safety car rules, as long as the rules are clear and the same for every competitor, it's fair game. My guess the reason that lapped cars could unlap themselves comes from the wish to have the whole field line up once again to have some extra excitement. The rules could also be that until 75% of the race cars need to unlap and the last 25% lapped cars should fall back. Doesn't matter in the lap count.

I tend to agree.
But whatever the rules are there will be circumstances in which someone loses out. If Latifi had crashed a lap or two later the race would have had to finish behind the pace car, or even be red flagged and a result declared. If he'd crashed a couple of laps earlier the lapped cars would have all been allowed past and there would still have been 2 or 3 laps left to race, in which case Verstappen would certainly have passed Hamilton.
So it's all just the luck of the draw at times. People seem to forget this.

[Jolle]

When having discussions like these, it always helps to back to the principles. Formula one is called formula one and not balance of performance one because in it's core its a completion where everybody competes under the same rules. What the rule is is less important, as long as everybody are held to the same standerd. Of course, the last race this didn't happen.

As for new safety car rules, as long as the rules are clear and the same for every competitor, it's fair game. My guess the reason that lapped cars could unlap themselves comes from the wish to have the whole field line up once again to have some extra excitement. The rules could also be that until 75% of the race cars need to unlap and the last 25% lapped cars should fall back. Doesn't matter in the lap count.

I tend to agree.
But whatever the rules are there will be circumstances in which someone loses out. If Latifi had crashed a lap or two later the race would have had to finish behind the pace car, or even be red flagged and a result declared. If he'd crashed a couple of laps earlier the lapped cars would have all been allowed past and there would still have been 2 or 3 laps left to race, in which case Verstappen would certainly have passed Hamilton.
So it's all just the luck of the draw at times. People seem to forget this.

it is a luck of the draw, but not in this way when not everyone is racing under the same rules. If Latifi crashed two laps earlier, they would have pitted Hamilton, no questions asked, because it would have been clear that there would be enough time to continue racing, then, if both Hamilton and Verstappen would have pitted, they stayed in the order as before. If Verstappen took the option to have track position, he would have been on worn tires and Hamilton on new ones. If for some reason Hamilton would have been unlucky and they both would be on new tires but Verstappen in front, it would be a fair fight to the finish.

[Pat Pending]

When having discussions like these, it always helps to back to the principles. Formula one is called formula one and not balance of performance one because in it's core its a completion where everybody competes under the same rules. What the rule is is less important, as long as everybody are held to the same standerd. Of course, the last race this didn't happen.

As for new safety car rules, as long as the rules are clear and the same for every competitor, it's fair game. My guess the reason that lapped cars could unlap themselves comes from the wish to have the whole field line up once again to have some extra excitement. The rules could also be that until 75% of the race cars need to unlap and the last 25% lapped cars should fall back. Doesn't matter in the lap count.

I tend to agree.
But whatever the rules are there will be circumstances in which someone loses out. If Latifi had crashed a lap or two later the race would have had to finish behind the pace car, or even be red flagged and a result declared. If he'd crashed a couple of laps earlier the lapped cars would have all been allowed past and there would still have been 2 or 3 laps left to race, in which case Verstappen would certainly have passed Hamilton.
So it's all just the luck of the draw at times. People seem to forget this.

it is a luck of the draw, but not in this way when not everyone is racing under the same rules. If Latifi crashed two laps earlier, they would have pitted Hamilton, no questions asked, because it would have been clear that there would be enough time to continue racing, then, if both Hamilton and Verstappen would have pitted, they stayed in the order as before. If Verstappen took the option to have track position, he would have been on worn tires and Hamilton on new ones. If for some reason Hamilton would have been unlucky and they both would be on new tires but Verstappen in front, it would be a fair fight to the finish.

I disagree, and think your using hindsight. I think Merc didn't pit Ham because they didn't know how much racing was going to be left and just didn't want to give up track position.
But we're both guessing. I fully respect your view, I just disagree with it. That's all.

[dans79]

I tend to agree.
But whatever the rules are there will be circumstances in which someone loses out. If Latifi had crashed a lap or two later the race would have had to finish behind the pace car, or even be red flagged and a result declared. If he'd crashed a couple of laps earlier the lapped cars would have all been allowed past and there would still have been 2 or 3 laps left to race, in which case Verstappen would certainly have passed Hamilton.
So it's all just the luck of the draw at times. People seem to forget this.

it is a luck of the draw, but not in this way when not everyone is racing under the same rules. If Latifi crashed two laps earlier, they would have pitted Hamilton, no questions asked, because it would have been clear that there would be enough time to continue racing, then, if both Hamilton and Verstappen would have pitted, they stayed in the order as before. If Verstappen took the option to have track position, he would have been on worn tires and Hamilton on new ones. If for some reason Hamilton would have been unlucky and they both would be on new tires but Verstappen in front, it would be a fair fight to the finish.

I disagree, and think your using hindsight. I think Merc didn't pit Ham because they didn't know how much racing was going to be left and just didn't want to give up track position.
But we're both guessing. I fully respect your view, I just disagree with it. That's all.

All the teams are doing Real-time data analysis, and using it to predict/simulate when the competition will pit, gaps, when the tire cliff will hit, how long safety cars will be, etc etc (merc used to show the interface for theirs in their weekend recap videos).

I'd bet my next paycheck that's why Merc kept Lewis out, the simulation said X% chance the race ends behind the safety car! If Masi hadn't made stuff up along the way, it probably would have as well.