Mercedes W13

[Just_a_fan]

What's impressed me is that the car is always collecting aero data, even without the big rakes attached. Mercedes have sensors on the floor, under the floor, on the rear wing, probably other places too.

It's like they are using the car as a full size wind tunnel model.

Interested to see what they bring to Bahrain as an update package.

I really don't find it very impressive or surprising that Mercedes or any other team has an abundance of sensors on the car.

It's not just sensors but rather they have aero probes in all sorts of places including in the diffuser. None of the other teams have anything like that - some have a few on the exposed floor, for example, but Mercedes have them on just about every major aero component. It's impressive that they are doing this and it's surprising that other teams aren't really doing much of it at all. In a brand new aero rule set, you'd think they'd all be doing everything they can to correlate the design tools and the real car.

Perhaps every other team is hugely confident that they're correct...that could be a big slice of hubris pie if they aren't.

[dans79]

Perhaps every other team is hugely confident that they're correct...that could be a big slice of hubris pie if they aren't.

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that a lot of teams don't have the infrastructure in place to accomplish anything useful with the data before the next test.

If memory serves Merc's expenditures increased significantly in 2020 before the costcap kicked in. Getting systems in place to process and correlate data more efficiently would be expensive initially but would also help in the cost cap era!

[Big Tea]

What's impressed me is that the car is always collecting aero data, even without the big rakes attached. Mercedes have sensors on the floor, under the floor, on the rear wing, probably other places too.

It's like they are using the car as a full size wind tunnel model.

Interested to see what they bring to Bahrain as an update package.

I really don't find it very impressive or surprising that Mercedes or any other team has an abundance of sensors on the car.

It's not just sensors but rather they have aero probes in all sorts of places including in the diffuser. None of the other teams have anything like that - some have a few on the exposed floor, for example, but Mercedes have them on just about every major aero component. It's impressive that they are doing this and it's surprising that other teams aren't really doing much of it at all. In a brand new aero rule set, you'd think they'd all be doing everything they can to correlate the design tools and the real car.

Perhaps every other team is hugely confident that they're correct...that could be a big slice of hubris pie if they aren't.

Its a balancing act. You spend time fitting sensors or finishing off last minuet items and afterthoughts.
The more 'ready to go' you are the more time spent deciding where to fit them then doing it

[AR3-GP]

What's impressed me is that the car is always collecting aero data, even without the big rakes attached. Mercedes have sensors on the floor, under the floor, on the rear wing, probably other places too.

It's like they are using the car as a full size wind tunnel model.

Interested to see what they bring to Bahrain as an update package.

I really don't find it very impressive or surprising that Mercedes or any other team has an abundance of sensors on the car.

Most teams did not have the variety of well integrated kiel probes that Mercedes displayed in Barcelona. The Mercedes was laced with them for general running. Other teams only ran the large kiel rakes which are a significant blockage source. The Merc seemed to have individual and discreet kiel probe installations above the floor, on the rear wing, in the sidepods, in the inlets that were semi-permanently installed and allowed them to monitor flow conditions for the entire test without the obstruction of giant kiel rakes. If you had the choice, you'd have them. If you were running out of time before the test, you most likely won't have them.

[Hoffman900]

What's impressed me is that the car is always collecting aero data, even without the big rakes attached. Mercedes have sensors on the floor, under the floor, on the rear wing, probably other places too.

It's like they are using the car as a full size wind tunnel model.

Interested to see what they bring to Bahrain as an update package.

I really don't find it very impressive or surprising that Mercedes or any other team has an abundance of sensors on the car.

Most teams did not have the variety of well integrated kiel probes that Mercedes displayed in Barcelona. The Mercedes was laced with them for general running. Other teams only ran the large kiel rakes which are a significant blockage source. The Merc seemed to have individual and discreet kiel probe installations above the floor, on the rear wing, in the sidepods, in the inlets that were semi-permanently installed and allowed them to monitor flow conditions for the entire test without the obstruction of giant kiel rakes. If you had the choice, you'd have them. If you were running out of time before the test, you most likely won't have them.

I’m surprised we don’t see more of these as opposed to dousing the car in flow-vis. I know they have their costs and do influence airflow locally, but I think I’d be more interesting in what’s happening in the air flow stream as opposed to directly on the surface.

[Just_a_fan]

I really don't find it very impressive or surprising that Mercedes or any other team has an abundance of sensors on the car.

It's not just sensors but rather they have aero probes in all sorts of places including in the diffuser. None of the other teams have anything like that - some have a few on the exposed floor, for example, but Mercedes have them on just about every major aero component. It's impressive that they are doing this and it's surprising that other teams aren't really doing much of it at all. In a brand new aero rule set, you'd think they'd all be doing everything they can to correlate the design tools and the real car.

Perhaps every other team is hugely confident that they're correct...that could be a big slice of hubris pie if they aren't.

Its a balancing act. You spend time fitting sensors or finishing off last minuet items and afterthoughts.
The more 'ready to go' you are the more time spent deciding where to fit them then doing it

Or you plan to have them from day one and thus they're incorporated as you build the car. These aren't "ooh, I've got a spare half hour, I think I'll lob a few probes on the car" items. These will have been carefully designed in to the build process to record data at specific points around the car. If Mercedes are the only team who had time to fit these systems, that suggests everyone else was behind the curve right up to the last minute. Which is quite a suggestion.

[JPower]

It's not just sensors but rather they have aero probes in all sorts of places including in the diffuser. None of the other teams have anything like that - some have a few on the exposed floor, for example, but Mercedes have them on just about every major aero component. It's impressive that they are doing this and it's surprising that other teams aren't really doing much of it at all. In a brand new aero rule set, you'd think they'd all be doing everything they can to correlate the design tools and the real car.

Perhaps every other team is hugely confident that they're correct...that could be a big slice of hubris pie if they aren't.

Its a balancing act. You spend time fitting sensors or finishing off last minuet items and afterthoughts.
The more 'ready to go' you are the more time spent deciding where to fit them then doing it

Or you plan to have them from day one and thus they're incorporated as you build the car. These aren't "ooh, I've got a spare half hour, I think I'll lob a few probes on the car" items. These will have been carefully designed in to the build process to record data at specific points around the car. If Mercedes are the only team who had time to fit these systems, that suggests everyone else was behind the curve right up to the last minute. Which is quite a suggestion.

I don't think they're the only team. According one report, Ferrari at the very least had sensors in their floor to measure deflection at speed.

[SiLo]

It's not the first time they have run with more sensors on the car either. I'm actually surprised that more teams are not doing this.

[Big Tea]

It's not just sensors but rather they have aero probes in all sorts of places including in the diffuser. None of the other teams have anything like that - some have a few on the exposed floor, for example, but Mercedes have them on just about every major aero component. It's impressive that they are doing this and it's surprising that other teams aren't really doing much of it at all. In a brand new aero rule set, you'd think they'd all be doing everything they can to correlate the design tools and the real car.

Perhaps every other team is hugely confident that they're correct...that could be a big slice of hubris pie if they aren't.

Its a balancing act. You spend time fitting sensors or finishing off last minuet items and afterthoughts.
The more 'ready to go' you are the more time spent deciding where to fit them then doing it

Or you plan to have them from day one and thus they're incorporated as you build the car. These aren't "ooh, I've got a spare half hour, I think I'll lob a few probes on the car" items. These will have been carefully designed in to the build process to record data at specific points around the car. If Mercedes are the only team who had time to fit these systems, that suggests everyone else was behind the curve right up to the last minute. Which is quite a suggestion.

That means everything would have gone exactly to plan. Even more impressive, but there would undoubtedly have been spare days planned which were probably not there at the end

[Just_a_fan]

Its a balancing act. You spend time fitting sensors or finishing off last minuet items and afterthoughts.
The more 'ready to go' you are the more time spent deciding where to fit them then doing it

Or you plan to have them from day one and thus they're incorporated as you build the car. These aren't "ooh, I've got a spare half hour, I think I'll lob a few probes on the car" items. These will have been carefully designed in to the build process to record data at specific points around the car. If Mercedes are the only team who had time to fit these systems, that suggests everyone else was behind the curve right up to the last minute. Which is quite a suggestion.

That means everything would have gone exactly to plan. Even more impressive, but there would undoubtedly have been spare days planned which were probably not there at the end

I think they just said "we're going to have these kiel probes in these locations on the car at the first test". The fabricators then incorporated the appropriate parts as they built the various bits of the car. No different to saying "we'll have this layup here, this one here" really. But the key is that someone thought about it early on in the design process.

[Stu]

It's not just sensors but rather they have aero probes in all sorts of places including in the diffuser. None of the other teams have anything like that - some have a few on the exposed floor, for example, but Mercedes have them on just about every major aero component. It's impressive that they are doing this and it's surprising that other teams aren't really doing much of it at all. In a brand new aero rule set, you'd think they'd all be doing everything they can to correlate the design tools and the real car.

Perhaps every other team is hugely confident that they're correct...that could be a big slice of hubris pie if they aren't.

Its a balancing act. You spend time fitting sensors or finishing off last minuet items and afterthoughts.
The more 'ready to go' you are the more time spent deciding where to fit them then doing it

Or you plan to have them from day one and thus they're incorporated as you build the car. These aren't "ooh, I've got a spare half hour, I think I'll lob a few probes on the car" items. These will have been carefully designed in to the build process to record data at specific points around the car. If Mercedes are the only team who had time to fit these systems, that suggests everyone else was behind the curve right up to the last minute. Which is quite a suggestion.

Ferrari were running them for the whole of last year (on top of the diffuser & under the front wing) I didn’t notice that any other team was using them. A useful tool.

[Just_a_fan]

Its a balancing act. You spend time fitting sensors or finishing off last minuet items and afterthoughts.
The more 'ready to go' you are the more time spent deciding where to fit them then doing it

Or you plan to have them from day one and thus they're incorporated as you build the car. These aren't "ooh, I've got a spare half hour, I think I'll lob a few probes on the car" items. These will have been carefully designed in to the build process to record data at specific points around the car. If Mercedes are the only team who had time to fit these systems, that suggests everyone else was behind the curve right up to the last minute. Which is quite a suggestion.

Ferrari were running them for the whole of last year (on top of the diffuser & under the front wing) I didn’t notice that any other team was using them. A useful tool.

Mercedes were running them on the floor, if I remember correctly.

[basti313]

What's impressed me is that the car is always collecting aero data, even without the big rakes attached. Mercedes have sensors on the floor, under the floor, on the rear wing, probably other places too.

It's like they are using the car as a full size wind tunnel model.

Interested to see what they bring to Bahrain as an update package.

That is something that a lot of them are doing, there are now some very small aero sensors that allow you to monitor surface pressures (and therefore airflow) without adding a great deal of weight or bulk. The big rakes allow them to measure the flow away from the surface (to test for correlation with CFD), the shapes of these have really evolved in the last few years!!

So far most have a few here and there. Mercedes even have them in the diffuser which none of the other teams appear to be doing.

??? I am surprised by this conclusion. I saw tape on every car. The McLaren or the RedBull were plastered with Al tape on the floor. Below they have strain or pressure sensors in testing.
That other teams take another approach does not mean they do not have sensors.Especially on the RedBull you could see a big bulge of sensor wires in the lower sidepod during testing.

[Just_a_fan]

That is something that a lot of them are doing, there are now some very small aero sensors that allow you to monitor surface pressures (and therefore airflow) without adding a great deal of weight or bulk. The big rakes allow them to measure the flow away from the surface (to test for correlation with CFD), the shapes of these have really evolved in the last few years!!

So far most have a few here and there. Mercedes even have them in the diffuser which none of the other teams appear to be doing.

??? I am surprised by this conclusion. I saw tape on every car. The McLaren or the RedBull were plastered with Al tape on the floor. Below they have strain or pressure sensors in testing.
That other teams take another approach does not mean they do not have sensors.Especially on the RedBull you could see a big bulge of sensor wires in the lower sidepod during testing.

I was talking specifically about the kiel probes that Mercedes seem to have all over the car and which others seem to have few, if any, of.

[basti313]

So far most have a few here and there. Mercedes even have them in the diffuser which none of the other teams appear to be doing.

??? I am surprised by this conclusion. I saw tape on every car. The McLaren or the RedBull were plastered with Al tape on the floor. Below they have strain or pressure sensors in testing.
That other teams take another approach does not mean they do not have sensors.Especially on the RedBull you could see a big bulge of sensor wires in the lower sidepod during testing.

I was talking specifically about the kiel probes that Mercedes seem to have all over the car and which others seem to have few, if any, of.

Yes, I am talking about these as well.
Why Merc is using these and others are doing more indirect measurements with strain sensors for example I do not know. But I can not see where you would put of the discussion on "prepared" or "not ready" or where you can make a conclusion on what they try to measure there. Integrating the strain sensors well into the floor needs to planned well ahead as well.
Maybe it is simply buried in the concept that Merc needs to know the flow more accurate, where others have downwash and do not care so much about this flow.
The other point of course is, that the other teams may run the strain sensors in the floor also in the coming races. They just add the wiring for FP1 and 2 and throw it out after Friday. The bigger sensors Merc uses disturb more and I think it is not so easy to remove them.