2022 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[adrianjordan]

Interesting! I was initially a bit more concerned. But now I am starting to think this "illegal floor" accusation is being fed to media by the Red Bull camp to put additional pressure by means of accusations and media/fia scrutiny to slow them down. McLaren have been cautious and careful in doing anything in the last few years. I hardly believe they will make a mistake as obvious as the 'flexing floor', considering it would be a costly setback when there is a budget cap. Keeping fingers crossed for Bahrain.

In the few days since Barcelona testing concluded, Red Bull has petitioned/complained about no less than 3 issues: to increase minimum weight, to bring back inerters, and apparently they think our floor is illegal/worth looking closely at.

Not to mention Marko accusing the team of doing glory runs when neither car was even in the top 10 of speed traps at any point during testing.

I'm not saying we'll be ahead of Red Bull this year, but clearly they're not liking what they see. I have high hopes for a close battle at the top. With Russell speculating that an active suspension would've helped with porpoising, I feel like both top teams are afraid many others will (or have) closed the gap this year. Ferrari certainly appear to be favorites. I hope we're close behind.

Let's hope that really is the case.

Red Bull falsely accusing a rival of illegal aero.... Surely not!!

[billamend]

Given everything I've seen so far, I'm starting to believe that McLaren is a dark horse for this championship:

• No signs of porpoising
• Very basic car in Barcelona, with plenty of upgrades to come (unlike Ferrari). Reports of it being 4 to 5 months old.
• Good on timing sheets, but very much outside top speeds
• Close to the weight limit, but reportedly using modular builds for testing. Once they start building integrated pieces, I assume the weight will decrease
• Teams (e.g. RB) started to lobby for rules changes (suspension and weight)
• Teams (e.g. RB and Mercedes) started to question McLaren floor for flexing
• Don't remember the last time Seidl had such a grin when asked about the car

Edit: added another point

[JPower]

Given everything I've seen so far, I'm starting to believe that McLaren is a dark horse for this championship:

• No signs of porpoising
• Very basic car in Barcelona, with plenty of upgrades to come (unlike Ferrari). Reports of it being 4 to 5 months old.
• Good on timing sheets, but very much outside top speeds
• Close to the weight limit, but reportedly using modular builds for testing. Once they start building integrated pieces, I assume the weight will decrease
• Teams (e.g. RB) started to lobby for rules changes (suspension and weight)
• Teams (e.g. RB and Mercedes) started to question McLaren floor for flexing

I understand being excited after the first test but given everything you know about the two teams, do you honestly believe Mercedes has designed a worse car than McLaren?

[mythr-ran-dire]

Given everything I've seen so far, I'm starting to believe that McLaren is a dark horse for this championship:

• No signs of porpoising
• Very basic car in Barcelona, with plenty of upgrades to come (unlike Ferrari). Reports of it being 4 to 5 months old.
• Good on timing sheets, but very much outside top speeds
• Close to the weight limit, but reportedly using modular builds for testing. Once they start building integrated pieces, I assume the weight will decrease
• Teams (e.g. RB) started to lobby for rules changes (suspension and weight)
• Teams (e.g. RB and Mercedes) started to question McLaren floor for flexing

I'm not quite so sure. Over on the car thread the discussion suggests that there's not much visually that can change on the car. I suspect where we'll see changes (as many others have also guessed) will be the floor's outer edge, possibly the tunnel entry strakes, and the beam wing.

I do share your optimism about the weight coming down, and stability w.r.t. porpoising.

Where I genuinely think Mclaren have jumped the competition is with the suspension and chassis. In terms of aero we might have come up with some clever ideas but we can't really match what Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull can do in terms of scale and complexity - thanks to the old wind tunnel.

[billamend]

I understand being excited after the first test but given everything you know about the two teams, do you honestly believe Mercedes has designed a worse car than McLaren?

If that is what you interpreted, thats not what I meant. What I mean is that everyone is expecting McLaren to be fighting for 3rd/4th, and maybe they will be fighting for 1st/2nd. Not necessarily meaning that Mercedes has a worse car than McLaren.

Edit: my definition of "dark horse" is that no one is really looking at them as potential front-runners.

[Big Tea]

Given everything I've seen so far, I'm starting to believe that McLaren is a dark horse for this championship:

• No signs of porpoising
• Very basic car in Barcelona, with plenty of upgrades to come (unlike Ferrari). Reports of it being 4 to 5 months old.
• Good on timing sheets, but very much outside top speeds
• Close to the weight limit, but reportedly using modular builds for testing. Once they start building integrated pieces, I assume the weight will decrease
• Teams (e.g. RB) started to lobby for rules changes (suspension and weight)
• Teams (e.g. RB and Mercedes) started to question McLaren floor for flexing

I understand being excited after the first test but given everything you know about the two teams, do you honestly believe Mercedes has designed a worse car than McLaren?

I'm sure Merc would not intend to design a worse car than Mclaren, but until it was actually run on the road all they have is data from their own baseline. A tiny miscalculation or mistranslation and they could easily suffer.
Also, Mclaren are no mugs and have been designing cars a long time with an established team, and there is always a 50/50 call that goes one way with this team that way with another and either could be the best call.
As you, I would expect the Merc to be at least as good, but sometimes it just happens that way.
I would really like to see it happen, be it for Mclaren, AM, or most of the other teams.
Not knowing who is going to win is as good as backing the winner.

[JPower]

I'm sure Merc would not intend to design a worse car than Mclaren, but until it was actually run on the road all they have is data from their own baseline. A tiny miscalculation or mistranslation and they could easily suffer.
Also, Mclaren are no mugs and have been designing cars a long time with an established team, and there is always a 50/50 call that goes one way with this team that way with another and either could be the best call.
As you, I would expect the Merc to be at least as good, but sometimes it just happens that way.
I would really like to see it happen, be it for Mclaren, AM, or most of the other teams.
Not knowing who is going to win is as good as backing the winner.

Does it? I don't see a customer team outperforming a works team over the course of season, especially not one that has the off-track resources Mercedes does and are still in the most dominant run in F1 history.

I understand being excited after the first test but given everything you know about the two teams, do you honestly believe Mercedes has designed a worse car than McLaren?

If that is what you interpreted, thats not what I meant. What I mean is that everyone is expecting McLaren to be fighting for 3rd/4th, and maybe they will be fighting for 1st/2nd. Not necessarily meaning that Mercedes has a worse car than McLaren.

Edit: my definition of "dark horse" is that no one is really looking at them as potential front-runners.

Ah OK, my fault. That makes sense.

[SmallSoldier]

Given everything I've seen so far, I'm starting to believe that McLaren is a dark horse for this championship:

• No signs of porpoising
• Very basic car in Barcelona, with plenty of upgrades to come (unlike Ferrari). Reports of it being 4 to 5 months old.
• Good on timing sheets, but very much outside top speeds
• Close to the weight limit, but reportedly using modular builds for testing. Once they start building integrated pieces, I assume the weight will decrease
• Teams (e.g. RB) started to lobby for rules changes (suspension and weight)
• Teams (e.g. RB and Mercedes) started to question McLaren floor for flexing

I understand being excited after the first test but given everything you know about the two teams, do you honestly believe Mercedes has designed a worse car than McLaren?

I honestly believe that it is possible for McLaren to design a better car than Mercedes, absolutely… How probable, is another question

[SmallSoldier]

Given everything I've seen so far, I'm starting to believe that McLaren is a dark horse for this championship:

• No signs of porpoising
• Very basic car in Barcelona, with plenty of upgrades to come (unlike Ferrari). Reports of it being 4 to 5 months old.
• Good on timing sheets, but very much outside top speeds
• Close to the weight limit, but reportedly using modular builds for testing. Once they start building integrated pieces, I assume the weight will decrease
• Teams (e.g. RB) started to lobby for rules changes (suspension and weight)
• Teams (e.g. RB and Mercedes) started to question McLaren floor for flexing

I'm not quite so sure. Over on the car thread the discussion suggests that there's not much visually that can change on the car. I suspect where we'll see changes (as many others have also guessed) will be the floor's outer edge, possibly the tunnel entry strakes, and the beam wing.

I do share your optimism about the weight coming down, and stability w.r.t. porpoising.

Where I genuinely think Mclaren have jumped the competition is with the suspension and chassis. In terms of aero we might have come up with some clever ideas but we can't really match what Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull can do in terms of scale and complexity - thanks to the old wind tunnel.

Well, that’s the opinion of a couple of individuals… I wouldn’t take that as everyone’s opinion (in regards to parts that they can work on)

[Big Tea]

I'm sure Merc would not intend to design a worse car than Mclaren, but until it was actually run on the road all they have is data from their own baseline. A tiny miscalculation or mistranslation and they could easily suffer.
Also, Mclaren are no mugs and have been designing cars a long time with an established team, and there is always a 50/50 call that goes one way with this team that way with another and either could be the best call.
As you, I would expect the Merc to be at least as good, but sometimes it just happens that way.
I would really like to see it happen, be it for Mclaren, AM, or most of the other teams.
Not knowing who is going to win is as good as backing the winner.

Does it? I don't see a customer team outperforming a works team over the course of season, especially not one that has the off-track resources Mercedes does and are still in the most dominant run in F1 history.

I understand being excited after the first test but given everything you know about the two teams, do you honestly believe Mercedes has designed a worse car than McLaren?

If that is what you interpreted, thats not what I meant. What I mean is that everyone is expecting McLaren to be fighting for 3rd/4th, and maybe they will be fighting for 1st/2nd. Not necessarily meaning that Mercedes has a worse car than McLaren.

Edit: my definition of "dark horse" is that no one is really looking at them as potential front-runners.

Ah OK, my fault. That makes sense.

Mclaren have 8 titles (ok, over a longer period, but I say with stronger opposition)
I would settle for a team that run the top two close early season. I fully expect Ferrari to be up there, Mclaren joining the battle would be better and AM joining in better still

First season with new regs, who knows? Not likely, but not impossible

[BMMR61]

If there’s any time when a domination ends it’s when there’s a major rule change (check), or a financial shift in the order (check). Another is when a team becomes so embroiled in a title battle through to the end of the season it diverts resources from next year’s car. Yes McLaren have an outdated wind tunnel but they have come off three straight seasons of solid growth and look like their calibration has been pretty accurate. Last season’s concluding races since Russia are the only blip in the March forward. If there’s any time when McLaren are going to make a major leap forward it’s a time like this. Level playing field financially and the experience of maximising this level of budget. Time will tell but Barcelona looked promising.

[djos]

Given everything I've seen so far, I'm starting to believe that McLaren is a dark horse for this championship:

• No signs of porpoising
• Very basic car in Barcelona, with plenty of upgrades to come (unlike Ferrari). Reports of it being 4 to 5 months old.
• Good on timing sheets, but very much outside top speeds
• Close to the weight limit, but reportedly using modular builds for testing. Once they start building integrated pieces, I assume the weight will decrease
• Teams (e.g. RB) started to lobby for rules changes (suspension and weight)
• Teams (e.g. RB and Mercedes) started to question McLaren floor for flexing

I understand being excited after the first test but given everything you know about the two teams, do you honestly believe Mercedes has designed a worse car than McLaren?

Mclaren have more CFD and Wind tunnel time than RBR and Merc so they can investigate more options.

[adrianjordan]

Does it? I don't see a customer team outperforming a works team over the course of season, especially not one that has the off-track resources Mercedes does and are still in the most dominant run in F1 history.

Mercedes have less CFD and windtunnel time than McLaren and likewise had less last season. So I'd say that gives the Woking team a fighting chance of making up for their outdated windtunnel.

[Emag]

I would advise caution with expectations. Nothing "otherworldly" came out of testing which suggests McLaren will be fighting for the title.

But even if it did, it is not wise to get caught up on testing predictions. Ferrari was thought to be way ahead back in 2019 after testing. Yet they struggled behind Mercedes all season. And if RedBull had a decent second driver, they would have probably finished ahead of Ferrari that year.

Trust in what the team is saying, and what goals they have set. They are not placing those goals arbitrarily, but rather basing them on the resources available and deficits to the teams ahead. The realistic goal the team has is 4th on the constructors but much closer than they were last year.

Therefore my expectation is the team's expectation. If they outperform that, then that's amazing. But it is not fair to the team to expect more, and then be disappointed on them for not reaching unrealistic targets we are placing.

[Big Tea]

I would advise caution with expectations. Nothing "otherworldly" came out of testing which suggests McLaren will be fighting for the title.

But even if it did, it is not wise to get caught up on testing predictions. Ferrari was thought to be way ahead back in 2019 after testing. Yet they struggled behind Mercedes all season. And if RedBull had a decent second driver, they would have probably finished ahead of Ferrari that year.

Trust in what the team is saying, and what goals they have set. They are not placing those goals arbitrarily, but rather basing them on the resources available and deficits to the teams ahead. The realistic goal the team has is 4th on the constructors but much closer than they were last year.

Therefore my expectation is the team's expectation. If they outperform that, then that's amazing. But it is not fair to the team to expect more, and then be disappointed on them for not reaching unrealistic targets we are placing.

I would settle for upsetting the apple cart now and again. If there are only 2 teams in it they can calculate what they need to be ahead at a set point (and the end) but if there are two more teams with the possibility of finishing anywhere in the top 4, especially getting a couple of cars in between, it would really shake up the interest.

For example a race with Mclaren Ferrari AT on the podium would really mess up any expectation of Merc and Red Bull for a while even if every 3rd race it is back to the old order.