2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[ringo]

Yes people like to twist history.

Hamilton drove for Mclaren. Mclaren back then a driver had to be professional.
In fact hamilton was cursed for being too professional and they labeled him as fake.
He wasnt wilding out like kimi and being himself.
Mclaren today is whole different culture.

Hamilton cannot be seen in a good light for some no matter what he does.

[cheeRS]

You must either be 12 years old and as naive as a puppy or are just... ill informed at best.

Ad hominem/responding to tone is a weak rhetorical strategy, mate. It shows that you don't agree with my words, but you don't have a counterargument to defend your opinion.

So you really think that Russell in 2018 was less proffesional than Hamilton in 2005 or 2007?

You made the claim that you’re somehow 100% sure Russel was more professional than Hamilton. Your very metric is subjective, and thus your argument loses all credibility.

Hamilton nearly won the WDC as a rookie against the reigning two time WDC. That’s a fact. Say what you want about team dynamics, but the closest any driver has gotten to that feat is Magnussen getting P2 on debut ~ and where is he now ? Russel didn’t have the clout or ‘professionalism’ to even earn a seat with Mercedes for what, 3 years? If Russel was so outstanding, why did Bottas keep getting contract renewals? Why not just ax Hamilton and save $40million a year? Toto is a shrewd businessman above all else - did he somehow miss this opportunity?

No. He didn’t. LH’s career up until this point is simply : The GoAT: Haters gonna hate.

[AeroDynamic]

Hamilton not only had the reigning two time, lineal Champion beat, he had Raikkonen as well (Champion that year) – the F1 establishment. Until reliability denied him too many times compared to Alonso.

He was leading the Championship predominantly that season until the final 3 rounds. The points deficit between himself and his teammate Alonso and Raikkonen grew as big as 25 points in todays points system. Forget Russell, Max never managed this feat of dominance against a relatively very good teammate in Ricciardo for three years.

You can look at Norris' rookie season against Sainz as well. Englishman vs a Spaniard, in McLaren. Sainz (arguably a very strong teammate now) handily beat Norris in 2019. You put what Hamilton did to Alonso as teammates in McLaren in 2007 in comparison, and you'd have to be a bonafide detractor to not give credit to such a sensational rookie performance at the very top.

[GrizzleBoy]

You know there's something afoot when a Verstappen who only got an F1 seat because of his dad and spent most of his rookie years knows as "crashstappen" who couldn't do a Monaco weekend without putting it in the wall, is hailed as more "naturally gifted racer" than a Lewis Hamilton by people like Brundle and Button.

A Hamilton who actually raced in and won in all single seater series leading to F1 and had almost earned a wdc per year of his F1 career going into 2009 and was easily matching and outperforming world champions while doing so.

Maybe some people just have different definitions of "natural" and "talented".

[AeroDynamic]

Maybe some people just have different definitions of "natural" and "talented".

its a mixture between fans who dont want to be fans of one driver, and the media machine FOM pumping up drivers endlessly to keep the 'excitement' and interest level high in the sport... to manufacture rivalries (Drive to Survive) and recently Championships.

Lewis was sensationalised on merit when he broke out in F1 under the Bernie years. You look at how they tried to pump up Yuki initially and then we never heard about him again once it became impossible to pump him up.

[ringo]

Hamilton not only had the reigning two time, lineal Champion beat, he had Raikkonen as well (Champion that year) – the F1 establishment. Until reliability denied him too many times compared to Alonso.

He was leading the Championship predominantly that season until the final 3 rounds. The points deficit between himself and his teammate Alonso and Raikkonen grew as big as 25 points in todays points system. Forget Russell, Max never managed this feat of dominance against a relatively very good teammate in Ricciardo for three years.

You can look at Norris' rookie season against Sainz as well. Englishman vs a Spaniard, in McLaren. Sainz (arguably a very strong teammate now) handily beat Norris in 2019. You put what Hamilton did to Alonso as teammates in McLaren in 2007 in comparison, and you'd have to be a bonafide detractor to not give credit to such a sensational rookie performance at the very top.

Good post. People forget Alonso was reigning 2 x Champ. He was the the peak of his powers.
Imagine Schumacher or Senna getting beat by a rookie? Hamilton achieved his legendary status by the end of 2007.

[Stu]

You know there's something afoot when a Verstappen who only got an F1 seat because of his dad and spent most of his rookie years knows as "crashstappen" who couldn't do a Monaco weekend without putting it in the wall, is hailed as more "naturally gifted racer" than a Lewis Hamilton by people like Brundle and Button.

A Hamilton who actually raced in and won in all single seater series leading to F1 and had almost earned a wdc per year of his F1 career going into 2009 and was easily matching and outperforming world champions while doing so.

Maybe some people just have different definitions of "natural" and "talented".

To be honest, LH is very talented, but has also had to work hard to polish that talent. He knows why he is good. Schumacher was the same. Some others may have higher talent levels, but with the pressure of the work involved in maintaining the highest levels can break them.
Hakkinen for one was a fabulous talent, but the sheer pressure of having to perform against Schumacher year on year made him question why he was doing it. There are many others (you could go way back and compare Hill and Clark in the same way). The simple fact is that F1 is, first and foremost, a technical pissing contest between teams, then a competition between drivers.
Was Moss better than Hawthorn? Or vice Versa…?

Lewis Hamilton, Greatest of all time?
A matter of opinion.
Winningest of all time? Certainly.
Greatest of his time? Probably.

One of the greats? Definitely.

[Jambier]

Hamilton not only had the reigning two time, lineal Champion beat, he had Raikkonen as well (Champion that year) – the F1 establishment. Until reliability denied him too many times compared to Alonso.

He was leading the Championship predominantly that season until the final 3 rounds. The points deficit between himself and his teammate Alonso and Raikkonen grew as big as 25 points in todays points system. Forget Russell, Max never managed this feat of dominance against a relatively very good teammate in Ricciardo for three years.

You can look at Norris' rookie season against Sainz as well. Englishman vs a Spaniard, in McLaren. Sainz (arguably a very strong teammate now) handily beat Norris in 2019. You put what Hamilton did to Alonso as teammates in McLaren in 2007 in comparison, and you'd have to be a bonafide detractor to not give credit to such a sensational rookie performance at the very top.

Good post. People forget Alonso was reigning 2 x Champ. He was the the peak of his powers.
Imagine Schumacher or Senna getting beat by a rookie? Hamilton achieved his legendary status by the end of 2007.

Rookie with xxxx laps of testing.
With Ron Denis wanting him to shine.
With ALO changing from Michelin to Bridgestone and changing team.

Yes, performance was very good, finish equals in points, but it was a special configuration.

If you put Hamilton in a 2022 Ferrari or any other thing against a very talented rookie anything can happen

[AeroDynamic]

Hamilton not only had the reigning two time, lineal Champion beat, he had Raikkonen as well (Champion that year) – the F1 establishment. Until reliability denied him too many times compared to Alonso.

He was leading the Championship predominantly that season until the final 3 rounds. The points deficit between himself and his teammate Alonso and Raikkonen grew as big as 25 points in todays points system. Forget Russell, Max never managed this feat of dominance against a relatively very good teammate in Ricciardo for three years.

You can look at Norris' rookie season against Sainz as well. Englishman vs a Spaniard, in McLaren. Sainz (arguably a very strong teammate now) handily beat Norris in 2019. You put what Hamilton did to Alonso as teammates in McLaren in 2007 in comparison, and you'd have to be a bonafide detractor to not give credit to such a sensational rookie performance at the very top.

Good post. People forget Alonso was reigning 2 x Champ. He was the the peak of his powers.
Imagine Schumacher or Senna getting beat by a rookie? Hamilton achieved his legendary status by the end of 2007.

Rookie with xxxx laps of testing.
With Ron Denis wanting him to shine.
With ALO changing from Michelin to Bridgestone and changing team.

Yes, performance was very good, finish equals in points, but it was a special configuration.

If you put Hamilton in a 2022 Ferrari or any other thing against a very talented rookie anything can happen

Ron Dennis is supposed to want one of his drivers to 'not shine' ? there was no big bias towards Alonso. They gave him a reliable car more than Hamilton. His performance improved as the season progressed.. and Hamilton was comfortably beating him before Alonso soured his relationship with the team.

Yes back then they had alot of testing laps so he wouldve been boosted by that, but alonso also had alot of test laps in the new car... and if its about testing laps that made such a huge difference, it doesnt explain why after two seasons, Max and Lando did not dominate their teammates. (In Lando and Max's case, they did not enjoy a big points deficit to their team mates, they finished behind none the less)

Alonso changed tyres is the only valid point but it didn't make much difference towards the end of the season either, and i'm not sure if he was testing those new tyres in all those testing laps he had. Not sure why you mentioned changing team.. changing formula is bigger than changing team... and ALO still had all those testing laps.

[NathanOlder]

It sounds like some people think Lewis was driving the Mp4 22 on Bridgestones in his GP2 winning season in 2006

[Ryar]

It sounds like some people think Lewis was driving the Mp4 22 on Bridgestones in his GP2 winning season in 2006

That car was nothing short of dominant in GP2. But why does facts matter anyway. His biggest opponent was Nelson Piquet Jr!!!

[mstar]

Well if you all remember when Lewis and Fernando was at the first test with the groove tyres, Autosport reported senior engineers suggested Lewis was slower than Fernando in the same car/fuel etc -But getting quicker each time he goes out (but so was fernando). He didn't get more testing than fernando before the season in the race car for 2007, i am not sure where that came from.

We all knew come first race how that ended up....

[NathanOlder]

It sounds like some people think Lewis was driving the Mp4 22 on Bridgestones in his GP2 winning season in 2006

That car was nothing short of dominant in GP2. But why does facts matter anyway. His biggest opponent was Nelson Piquet Jr!!!

Totally missed the point.

[NathanOlder]

Well if you all remember when Lewis and Fernando was at the first test with the groove tyres, Autosport reported senior engineers suggested Lewis was slower than Fernando in the same car/fuel etc -But getting quicker each time he goes out (but so was fernando). He didn't get more testing than fernando before the season in the race car for 2007, i am not sure where that came from.

We all knew come first race how that ended up....

Mark Preistley said that Alonso often asked Mclaren to put himself and De La Rosa in the car for testing and Priestley said a few time this is what happened. Also said that the 2 spaniards were working much closer together to help develop the car and setups for Alonso (of course De La Rosa would help his countryman as much as possible). These are a few things I read in Preistleys Autobigraphy.

[ringo]

Hamilton not only had the reigning two time, lineal Champion beat, he had Raikkonen as well (Champion that year) – the F1 establishment. Until reliability denied him too many times compared to Alonso.

He was leading the Championship predominantly that season until the final 3 rounds. The points deficit between himself and his teammate Alonso and Raikkonen grew as big as 25 points in todays points system. Forget Russell, Max never managed this feat of dominance against a relatively very good teammate in Ricciardo for three years.

You can look at Norris' rookie season against Sainz as well. Englishman vs a Spaniard, in McLaren. Sainz (arguably a very strong teammate now) handily beat Norris in 2019. You put what Hamilton did to Alonso as teammates in McLaren in 2007 in comparison, and you'd have to be a bonafide detractor to not give credit to such a sensational rookie performance at the very top.

Good post. People forget Alonso was reigning 2 x Champ. He was the the peak of his powers.
Imagine Schumacher or Senna getting beat by a rookie? Hamilton achieved his legendary status by the end of 2007.

Rookie with xxxx laps of testing.
With Ron Denis wanting him to shine.
With ALO changing from Michelin to Bridgestone and changing team.

Yes, performance was very good, finish equals in points, but it was a special configuration.

If you put Hamilton in a 2022 Ferrari or any other thing against a very talented rookie anything can happen

So you are saying testing equates to more experience than Alonso had fighting Shumacher and Kimi for years?
Hamilton had no business beating Alonso.
I think in time people will undersrand the gravity of what took place.
Tyres, testing, it shouldnt matter. Alonso is super adaptable. he would not suffer compared to a rookie because of a tyre change. In fact he did not make any complaints about tyres affecting him.
And i am an Alonso fan. Alonso is extremely special driver. I still think Hamilton and Alonso have been the best since Shumacher left Ferrari. Alonso maybe lacks the same consistency because of age now but thats about it.