A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
While there is some squat, they are not taken from the same angle either and the difference accounting for that is a lot less than these photos would suggest.
I was also thinking the same (in regards to the angle of the pictures), but it does help visualize how much the cars are squatting under load and how close to the ground they are running
What’s interesting is that McLaren seem to have a ‘small’ amount of rake
Do others? Or are they completely level?
I wouldn’t dare to make a judgement call, but it would seem that McLaren has a bit more rake than others, with AT apparently running more rake than McLaren… But, the pictures could be deceiving… I let everyone make their own conclusions:
Also, interesting video from “The Race”, not only focusing on the vortices created by the McLaren floor, but explaining what the suspended part of the floor at the rear is probably doing.
They also talk about what the other big 3 teams are doing.
Maybe the biggest takeaway for me and the one that I fully agree with is that if McLaren has porpoising under control, they can focus on adding performance, while others are focusing on mitigating / eliminating the effect.
Also, interesting video from “The Race”, not only focusing on the vortices created by the McLaren floor, but explaining what the suspended part of the floor at the rear is probably doing.
They also talk about what the other big 3 teams are doing.
Maybe the biggest takeaway for me and the one that I fully agree with is that if McLaren has porpoising under control, they can focus on adding performance, while others are focusing on mitigating / eliminating the effect.
You say that, but they also mention as we’ve heard before, McLaren brought updates that induced porpoising
Hopefully they understand why, and your correct in saying they have it under control, but it is a little concerning
Also, It appears the race aren’t too sure how McLaren’s floor helps support the vortices, when they offer up several explanations
This does not surprise me because I’m as confused as everyone else
As you show above, McLaren certainly don’t have a floor running as close to the ground as is suggested, so could the sparks be coming from the tray?
Mercedes are the ones with the flexible floor, as we see they had to strengthen it to STOP porpoising
I’m beginning to think that maybe the Race are correct after all
While there is some squat, they are not taken from the same angle either and the difference accounting for that is a lot less than these photos would suggest.
I was also thinking the same (in regards to the angle of the pictures), but it does help visualize how much the cars are squatting under load and how close to the ground they are running
What’s interesting is that McLaren seem to have a ‘small’ amount of rake
Do others? Or are they completely level?
The rake is only with no aero loading - now that they dont have clever hydraulic suspension systems, they cant set a ride height that is maintained regardless of the aero loading.
You say that, but they also mention as we’ve heard before, McLaren brought updates that induced porpoising
Hopefully they understand why, and your correct in saying they have it under control, but it is a little concerning
To understand porpoising and how to mitigate it, first you need working examples of each side of the coin, which McLaren now have. That could go a long way for them while others are throwing ideas and seeing what sticks (on the track too, which adds considerable lead time). I don't think it's quite the silver bullet The Race is making it out to be, but an advantage for sure.
Also, interesting video from “The Race”, not only focusing on the vortices created by the McLaren floor, but explaining what the suspended part of the floor at the rear is probably doing.
They also talk about what the other big 3 teams are doing.
Maybe the biggest takeaway for me and the one that I fully agree with is that if McLaren has porpoising under control, they can focus on adding performance, while others are focusing on mitigating / eliminating the effect.
You say that, but they also mention as we’ve heard before, McLaren brought updates that induced porpoising
Hopefully they understand why, and your correct in saying they have it under control, but it is a little concerning
Also, It appears the race aren’t too sure how McLaren’s floor helps support the vortices, when they offer up several explanations
This does not surprise me because I’m as confused as everyone else
As you show above, McLaren certainly don’t have a floor running as close to the ground as is suggested, so could the sparks be coming from the tray?
Mercedes are the ones with the flexible floor, as we see they had to strengthen it to STOP porpoising
I’m beginning to think that maybe the Race are correct after all
If they had some “test parts” (I wouldn’t consider them updates) that created porpoising for them, that is actually great news because now they know what works and that doesn’t… That’s what testing is for
If they start with a platform that doesn't porpoise then they can keep it that way and pick and choose what goes on based on it's effect. That is much better than trying to understand the porpoising on a platform that is also constantly changing.
Does anyone know just how much the porpoising affects the speed of the car? Has there been any analysis on this point? Is it ultimately that big a deal to lap time? I can see that it would impact the top speed a little, but I'd love to know more detail if it is available. How much of an issue can this be through high speed corners?
Hello Everyone new to F1 Technical. My question is: Could it be that McLaren benefited from their association with Indycar in terms of figuring out that there could be porpoising?
Hello Everyone new to F1 Technical. My question is: Could it be that McLaren benefited from their association with Indycar in terms of figuring out that there could be porpoising?
It's certainly possible that they asked the IndyCar team if there was anything they needed to be aware of regarding venturi tunnels.
McLaren does move their staff around between the teams to share information. eg Andrew Jarvis has worked for the F1 and IndyCar teams.
Thanks @djos. Reason question came to mind is that Indycar has been using ground effects for decades. Just 1dered if Arrow Mclaren gave their F1 cousins any tips?
Also, interesting video from “The Race”, not only focusing on the vortices created by the McLaren floor, but explaining what the suspended part of the floor at the rear is probably doing.
They also talk about what the other big 3 teams are doing.
Maybe the biggest takeaway for me and the one that I fully agree with is that if McLaren has porpoising under control, they can focus on adding performance, while others are focusing on mitigating / eliminating the effect.
Pictures of vortex are nice but comparing them is useless if the pictures aren't taken with cars at same speed
for example in this picture the vortex of the Ferrari totally different form the one showed in the video and more similar to the McLaren one
Also, interesting video from “The Race”, not only focusing on the vortices created by the McLaren floor, but explaining what the suspended part of the floor at the rear is probably doing.
They also talk about what the other big 3 teams are doing.
Maybe the biggest takeaway for me and the one that I fully agree with is that if McLaren has porpoising under control, they can focus on adding performance, while others are focusing on mitigating / eliminating the effect.
Pictures of vortex are nice but comparing them is useless if the pictures aren't taken with cars at same speed
for example in this picture the vortex of the Ferrari totally different form the one showed in the video and more similar to the McLaren one
Hello Everyone new to F1 Technical. My question is: Could it be that McLaren benefited from their association with Indycar in terms of figuring out that there could be porpoising?
It is possible, but I would suggest a bit unlikely… Based on everything I’ve read so far, porpoising caught the teams by surprise, it wasn’t something that they designed around or that was part of the car calculations (simply because you wouldn’t see it in the CAD or Wind Tunnel models), so it would be unlikely for the team to have asked AMSP about it before hand.
Furthermore, the chassis / aero of the Indycar’s isn’t build by the teams (nor designed), it is an spec class for which they buy a chassis from Dallara… Therefore, the most the team probably is capable of helping with is setup.
The one that could have a bit of a benefit is Haas, since Dallara makes their chassis (as well as Indy’s)
Also, interesting video from “The Race”, not only focusing on the vortices created by the McLaren floor, but explaining what the suspended part of the floor at the rear is probably doing.
They also talk about what the other big 3 teams are doing.
Maybe the biggest takeaway for me and the one that I fully agree with is that if McLaren has porpoising under control, they can focus on adding performance, while others are focusing on mitigating / eliminating the effect.
Pictures of vortex are nice but comparing them is useless if the pictures aren't taken with cars at same speed
for example in this picture the vortex of the Ferrari totally different form the one showed in the video and more similar to the McLaren one
