2022 Oracle | Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[JordanMugen]

If they don't have a history of team orders, how do you explain multi-21?

The team order was for Vettel to hold position as he had unfairly been given a more favourable strategy than Webber, due to threats from the cars behind. Webber, as the race leader, had rightful dues of pit priority and hence with Webber having had to give up the pit priority to Vettel, Vettel was given a team order to stay behind which Vettel ignored.

I.e., that was only a 'team order' in the sense of making sure the pit strategies were fair to the number two driver and race leader.

[Ryar]

It's fun to see Hamilton's position as highest grosser being shaken by a super talented 24 year old driver.

A driver that was lucky to get 2 second a lap faster car for 7 long years that no one had in the modern F1 era, is somehow a greater achiever and justified to command 50+ million pay and a talented driver that beat him in equal machinery getting the deal is a stuff is a problem. A driver that hasn't won a single race yet getting 25 million a year deal is a lot funny in my opinion.

It's a massive statement by Red Bull Racing of their intent to stay in F1, that they are willing to pay such a retainer with that long contract. While there are always question marks over Mercedes' long term commitment to the sport.

Remember this is his salary set for 8 years into the future, and most of Hamilton's is on previous negotiations.
Compare your salary now with that of 8 years ago and it will not look fat

TBH I'm happy for him and hope he sticks around to collect

Lewis signed the deal for 33 million a year when he joined Mercedes. As part of his second renewal for 2019/20, he then started getting 55 million a year. It's not like he got 55 million from 2013.

[Just_a_fan]

It's fun to see Hamilton's position as highest grosser being shaken by a super talented 24 year old driver.

A driver that was lucky to get 2 second a lap faster car for 7 long years that no one had in the modern F1 era, is somehow a greater achiever and justified to command 50+ million pay and a talented driver that beat him in equal machinery getting the deal is a stuff is a problem. A driver that hasn't won a single race yet getting 25 million a year deal is a lot funny in my opinion.

It's a massive statement by Red Bull Racing of their intent to stay in F1, that they are willing to pay such a retainer with that long contract. While there are always question marks over Mercedes' long term commitment to the sport.

Remember this is his salary set for 8 years into the future, and most of Hamilton's is on previous negotiations.
Compare your salary now with that of 8 years ago and it will not look fat

TBH I'm happy for him and hope he sticks around to collect

Lewis signed the deal for 33 million a year when he joined Mercedes. As part of his second renewal for 2019/20, he then started getting 55 million a year. It's not like he got 55 million from 2013.

He's had more than one deal which allowed for new salary negotiations. Max has signed a long deal so there won't be a break in which to renegotiate a higher salary. I think that's the point he was making.

I wonder if Max's deal has a salary increment clause in it - it would be a sensible thing to have asked for when signing such a long (by F1 standards) contract. A kind of "40 million in years 1 and 2, 44 million in years 3 and 4..." that sort of thing. I'd guess that there's some form of "if build a rubbish car, I can leave" clause in there somewhere too so Max can get out if Red Bull drop the ball. Likewise I wouldn't be surprised if Red Bull have a "if you don't perform we can chop you early" clause on their side.

It's the non-salary clauses that take time in such discussions. The money is pretty much easy stuff. I remember DC saying he turned down a contract with Ferrari because he wouldn't sign a "number 2 driver" clause. As he later admitted, whilst laughing, that was rather silly of him.

The ever higher salaries aren't really that indicative of anything anyway. It's just like the silliness with the record points totals that Sebastien and Lewis have - more points are available now so bigger career totals are a given. Max will doubtless overtake those two if he stays in the sport for as long as they have and has access to decent cars. Likewise salaries - the idea of "a record driver salary" is silly because all salaries are going up over time anyway. What's amazing today for a top driver will look a bit lame in 20 years, for example. A driver at the back of the field is making money that would have looked great for midfield drivers 20 years ago.

[Ryar]

Ah, relying on this old junk, eh?

Ryar is 100% correct...

Er, no he isn't. But it's a nice trope to bash Hamilton with for those that dislike him for their own various reasons.

Of course it doesn't suit someone with tinted glasses. Look at Lewis' performances when other drivers have had equal cars/performance and see how many times he has won. 2007, 2008 (alomst lost), 2010, 2012, 2016 (while his fans like to blame reliability, while conveniently ignoring his truck load of errors), 2021. The only years he won, was when he had those dominant cars and a weak team mate. Even in 2021, he was nowhere until Brazil where Mercedes, magically turned around 2-3 tenth deficit into 4 tenths advantage. Seb in 2010 and 2012 had far more competitive years to win by mounting a genuine championship battle and same goes with Max.

The point is, using those stats of easy wins, trying to put a question mark over Max getting a worthy deal sounds sour.

[Just_a_fan]

Ryar is 100% correct...

Er, no he isn't. But it's a nice trope to bash Hamilton with for those that dislike him for their own various reasons.

Of course it doesn't suit someone with tinted glasses. Look at Lewis' performances when other drivers have had equal cars/performance and see how many times he has won. 2007, 2008 (alomst lost), 2010, 2012, 2016 (while his fans like to blame reliability, while conveniently ignoring his truck load of errors), 2021. The only years he won, was when he had those dominant cars and a weak team mate. Even in 2021, he was nowhere until Brazil where Mercedes, magically turned around 2-3 tenth deficit into 4 tenths advantage. Seb in 2010 and 2012 had far more competitive years to win by mounting a genuine championship battle and same goes with Max.

The point is, using those stats of easy wins, trying to put a question mark over Max getting a worthy deal sounds sour.

You're saying 2007 was him failing? Wow, tough crowd.

You do know that f1 champions all have top cars? Did Senna win titles in a less than brilliant car? Or Fangio? Or Michael? Or Max?

[dans79]

You do know that f1 champions all have top cars? Did Senna win titles in a less than brilliant car? Or Fangio? Or Michael? Or Max?

That's just a really inconvenient fact, that a lot of people like to overlook when it suits there agenda!

[Just_a_fan]

You do know that f1 champions all have top cars? Did Senna win titles in a less than brilliant car? Or Fangio? Or Michael? Or Max?

That's just a really inconvenient fact, that a lot of people like to overlook when it suits there agenda!

Indeed so.

[PlatinumZealot]

It's fun to see Hamilton's position as highest grosser being shaken by a super talented 24 year old driver.

A driver that was lucky to get 2 second a lap faster car for 7 long years that no one had in the modern F1 era, is somehow a greater achiever and justified to command 50+ million pay and a talented driver that beat him in equal machinery getting the deal is a stuff is a problem. A driver that hasn't won a single race yet getting 25 million a year deal is a lot funny in my opinion.

It's a massive statement by Red Bull Racing of their intent to stay in F1, that they are willing to pay such a retainer with that long contract. While there are always question marks over Mercedes' long term commitment to the sport.

It's not that Lewis was ever out and out the highest paid by gigantic margins. Sebatian and Alonso's "reported" salaries at Ferrari always rivaled his. These guys salaries are not even close to what Schumacher was getting after adding promotions. Schumacher used to compete with Tiger Woods regularly for highest paid sporstman. I remember a 98 million dollar figure....

No one is shaken about Max's salary. Very likley Max is still not the highest paid because Red Bull is not known for paying high figures. In fact we don't know the driver salaries really! They are all estimates by so called journalists. What we do know is that Helmut Marko said a salary like Lewis has is too expensive for Formula 1.

Let's play around with this reported 50 million USD figure (it was confirmed as USD not Euros). Account for rapid inflation of about 7% per year,50 million Us dollars over six years is about 40 million USD a year. Convert that to pounds and it's not all that shocking.

(I am assuming this contract is for 2023 to 2028?)

Mod edit: removed tactless personal jibe.

[ringo]

Verstappen is 1 from 1 in wining a WDC with a car capable of regularly winning races, which is pretty good going. 1 car capable of winning regularly, 1 WDC returned. Pretty good.

It is absolutely a shame that the 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020 Red Bulls were not capable of winning regularly. Ricciardo, Verstappen, Kvyat, Gasly and Albon would certainly have a lot more victories if they were.

Vettel has a better record than Max in that regard.
From a purist point of view Max championship was not of his own efforts. It has an asterick to it. He had the best car buoyed by regulations and a refocussed Newey who also claimed his car was the best and he was outraced by Hamilton. So i would put Vettel ahead of Max when it comes to making the most of what you got right out of the box. 2022 is Max's year to win a championship on his own merrits.

[Dee]

Verstappen is 1 from 1 in wining a WDC with a car capable of regularly winning races, which is pretty good going. 1 car capable of winning regularly, 1 WDC returned. Pretty good.

It is absolutely a shame that the 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020 Red Bulls were not capable of winning regularly. Ricciardo, Verstappen, Kvyat, Gasly and Albon would certainly have a lot more victories if they were.

Vettel has a better record than Max in that regard.
From a purist point of view Max championship was not of his own efforts. It has an asterick to it. He had the best car buoyed by regulations and a refocussed Newey who also claimed his car was the best and he was outraced by Hamilton. So i would put Vettel ahead of Max when it comes to making the most of what you got right out of the box. 2022 is Max's year to win a championship on his own merrits.

From a purists point of view Masi --- up but Max is a worthy and deserved Champion, all of his own making

All data as reviewed by different analysts shows that Merc was faster in race pace and qualifying pace on average over the season.

https://www.racefans.net/2022/01/17/ana ... tle-fight/

[jz11]

so I opened the thread to see what's new with RB team, and last page is nothing but rumors and speculation and the same actors bashing the 2021 championship outcome again

mods, does this really belong here?

[Stu]

Not really, but it did start on-topic (discussing Max’s new contract), it is being moderated and many posts have either been deleted or edited.

[JordanMugen]

Vettel has a better record than Max in that regard.

I don't see how, Vettel had a car capable of winning regularly seven times ('09,10,11,12,13,17,18) and has four titles to show for it, so less than the 100% rate of Verstappen.

Vettel took four wins in '09, but Webber took two other wins in the RBR, so in theory Vettel could have matched the six wins that driver's title winner Button scored and negated or overhauled Button's 9pt WDC margin.

IIRC Vettel had unnecessary crashes in Australia and Malaysia, so that too (plus Webber outperforming Vettel in some races), could have cost RBR the WDC despite having a regular race winning car.

[HPD]

so I opened the thread to see what's new with RB team, and last page is nothing but rumors and speculation and the same actors bashing the 2021 championship outcome again

mods, does this really belong here?

The same for me. When I read things about 2021 and driver comparison... I closed the page. Sorry..

[hollus]

Quick mod clarification:

Mercedes fans are welcome to post in this thread, same way Red Bull fans are welcome to post in the Mercedes thread.

BUT!

Mercedes fans are welcome in this thread to talk about Red Bull or Max or Perez, NOT to talk about Mercedes of Hamilton. A similar principle applies in the other place, of course.

That said, the last pages have contained more Mercedes talk then Red Bull talk, but that has been supported about equally by Mercedes' fans and by Red Bull's fans posts.

Please, try to remain on topic. Comparisons are OK, but don't make the posts about the wrong team/driver.

It is a large and complicated forum, discussions can only stay on topic with some focus and self-restrain effort form the posters. If you post on mobile and the thread topic does not display... take those 2 extra seconds to scroll before making a post.