FIA Thread

[chrisc90]

I really cant see how a video ref will help? How long are they going to spend pondering over different video, telemetry etc etc before they come to a decision. 1mins 30 (average - I guess) lap time per track overall and drivers could be 5-10 laps after the offence before a decision is even made to refer it to the stewards. Not like you can stop the race like they do it football, then add laps on at the end.

It's cyclical, having the same stewards led to complaints about bias, to which the answer was to rotate the stewards, which led to complaints about inconsistencies

I suspect the answer lies in changing the way the judicial system works, as it's highly unusual at this level to have the same people working as both prosecutor and judge. And to have so few. The old argument was manpower and shipping people around the world. However, the balance of that argument has changed now the FIA have moved towards some remote working

There's good reason to separate the role of determining which rules may have been broken and the prevailing precedents. It's a team-based activity and largely factual, which leaves the on-venue Stewards free to judge the merits of the case

It sounds like a 6 and two 3's and a game of catch 21. I mean there was talk about bias in the stewarding panel last season . How do you come up with a panel that is consistent, yet non-bias.

Maybe they could remove any team name from telemetry or blur out sponsorships or distinctive parts and present that to stewards (maybe done by the video ref as more time) which would leave them a choice between car A or car B with no way of who committed the offence etc.

Yes, it would be little use in real time, but more so between sessions and after race if the driver feels a penalty was harsh.

Never changes though....Red card in football, team still plays a man down, they could lose the game. What if that cards then rescinded.the damage has still been done

[adrianjordan]

Are we not in agreement that Masi Fooked up big time in AD ?

There are STILL those on this forum defending Masi.

[GrizzleBoy]

Are we not in agreement that Masi Fooked up big time in AD ?

Hey now, that's not fair on Masi.

What's wrong with using the safety car procedures to literally change the the running order of the race/decide who can and cant race on the last lap/place cars around the track so that Max can have his rightful free run at the leader ofbthe race forbthe WDC win?

Especially if you've been given an easy to understand tutorial on how to do it by Johnathan Wheatley?

Seems like a perfectly normal thing any official in any sport would've done.

Stop making such a fuss about it.

Lewis has 7 wdc, what does it matter if Max gets one too? He deserved it anyway, so that makes it okay.

[Just_a_fan]

Are we not in agreement that Masi Fooked up big time in AD ?

Hey now, that's not fair on Masi.

What's wrong with using the safety car procedures to literally change the the running order of the race/decide who can and cant race on the last lap/place cars around the track so that Max can have his rightful free run at the leader ofbthe race forbthe WDC win?

Especially if you've been given an easy to understand tutorial on how to do it by Johnathan Wheatley?

Seems like a perfectly normal thing any official in any sport would've done.

Stop making such a fuss about it.

Lewis has 7 wdc, what does it matter if Max gets one too? He deserved it anyway, so that makes it okay.

[shamyakovic]

Are we not in agreement that Masi Fooked up big time in AD ?

Hey now, that's not fair on Masi.

What's wrong with using the safety car procedures to literally change the the running order of the race/decide who can and cant race on the last lap/place cars around the track so that Max can have his rightful free run at the leader ofbthe race forbthe WDC win?

Especially if you've been given an easy to understand tutorial on how to do it by Johnathan Wheatley?

Seems like a perfectly normal thing any official in any sport would've done.

Stop making such a fuss about it.

Lewis has 7 wdc, what does it matter if Max gets one too? He deserved it anyway, so that makes it okay.

Lol

[Big Tea]

Are we not in agreement that Masi Fooked up big time in AD ?

Hey now, that's not fair on Masi.

What's wrong with using the safety car procedures to literally change the the running order of the race/decide who can and cant race on the last lap/place cars around the track so that Max can have his rightful free run at the leader ofbthe race forbthe WDC win?

Especially if you've been given an easy to understand tutorial on how to do it by Johnathan Wheatley?

Seems like a perfectly normal thing any official in any sport would've done.

Stop making such a fuss about it.

Lewis has 7 wdc, what does it matter if Max gets one too? He deserved it anyway, so that makes it okay.

All true, but I still think a little hard on Masi. He has been in a no win position for a while now just waiting for it to fall on him. Pressure from so many places and all claim the exact opposite of each other.

Yes, something had to be done, but I don't think it was malicious or all his fault.
Still better he has gone though as a line can be drawn.

[Tvetovnato]

Are we not in agreement that Masi Fooked up big time in AD ?

Hey now, that's not fair on Masi.

What's wrong with using the safety car procedures to literally change the the running order of the race/decide who can and cant race on the last lap/place cars around the track so that Max can have his rightful free run at the leader ofbthe race forbthe WDC win?

Especially if you've been given an easy to understand tutorial on how to do it by Johnathan Wheatley?

Seems like a perfectly normal thing any official in any sport would've done.

Stop making such a fuss about it.

Lewis has 7 wdc, what does it matter if Max gets one too? He deserved it anyway, so that makes it okay.

All true, but I still think a little hard on Masi. He has been in a no win position for a while now just waiting for it to fall on him. Pressure from so many places and all claim the exact opposite of each other.

Yes, something had to be done, but I don't think it was malicious or all his fault.
Still better he has gone though as a line can be drawn.

Literally all he had to do was apply the rules normally, and no one in the world would have the right to complain. RB management would probably have done it anyway, but Masi could just have pointed to what’s in the rules, and no one could hold it against him. That’s why we have sporting rules. If you don’t apply the rules properly, people have all the right to be hard on him and call him out for it.

[AeroDynamic]

Are we not in agreement that Masi Fooked up big time in AD ?

Hey now, that's not fair on Masi.

What's wrong with using the safety car procedures to literally change the the running order of the race/decide who can and cant race on the last lap/place cars around the track so that Max can have his rightful free run at the leader ofbthe race forbthe WDC win?

Especially if you've been given an easy to understand tutorial on how to do it by Johnathan Wheatley?

Seems like a perfectly normal thing any official in any sport would've done.

Stop making such a fuss about it.

Lewis has 7 wdc, what does it matter if Max gets one too? He deserved it anyway, so that makes it okay.

funniest post I've read in a while.

[Red Rock Mutley]

...
All true, but I still think a little hard on Masi. He has been in a no win position for a while now just waiting for it to fall on him. Pressure from so many places and all claim the exact opposite of each other...

I think his mistake lay in not fully understanding how badly the turn of events would be received. That lap had developed into a highly chaotic situation, in that the outcomes would vary widely because of small changes in his input. The track was taking longer to clear than anticipated, the finish was fast approaching, and he had guidance not to finish under the safety car. Everything reached a peak at that moment, in that lap.

If you look at what happens if the track cleared earlier, the perception changes dramatically; resuming competition is the default thing to do unless unsafe. A lap later, we finish under the safety car because we don't want to compromise safety for the sake of the show.

We'll have to wait for the report to come out (if it ever does), but I suspect his decision we've scrutinised in minute detail for the last 3 months, is only problematical when viewed in the context of a period of less than a minute, seconds. It's a decision made under duress and in a highly chaotic situation. Humans are very bad at making good decisions in those situations; we simplify the problem into basic terms. I think, when presented with a way to meet his goals, he went for it and didn't consider the perception. It was a bad decision, but very human mistake.

[NathanOlder]

...
All true, but I still think a little hard on Masi. He has been in a no win position for a while now just waiting for it to fall on him. Pressure from so many places and all claim the exact opposite of each other...

I think his mistake lay in not fully understanding how badly the turn of events would be received. That lap had developed into a highly chaotic situation, in that the outcomes would vary widely because of small changes in his input. The track was taking longer to clear than anticipated, the finish was fast approaching, and he had guidance not to finish under the safety car. Everything reached a peak at that moment, in that lap.

If you look at what happens if the track cleared earlier, the perception changes dramatically; resuming competition is the default thing to do unless unsafe. A lap later, we finish under the safety car because we don't want to compromise safety for the sake of the show.

We'll have to wait for the report to come out (if it ever does), but I suspect his decision we've scrutinised in minute detail for the last 3 months, is only problematical when viewed in the context of a period of less than a minute, seconds. It's a decision made under duress and in a highly chaotic situation. Humans are very bad at making good decisions in those situations; we simplify the problem into basic terms. I think, when presented with a way to meet his goals, he went for it and didn't consider the perception. It was a bad decision, but very human mistake.

I think with the penultimate lap , Masi should have stuck to the 'No lapped cars are unlapping themselves' reason being to get a race to finish under green. So Masi did a great job getting the race restarted , stayed within the rules, Merc & RB have no ground to complain. Lewis would have finished 1st and it would have been over . If RedBull complained about the lapped cars, Masi would have said, If I moved them out the way, it would have taken 1 extra lap to do, so finishing under SC. No one could have argued this , and Masi probably would hav ekept his job and we would be moving in to 2022 without 2021 being marred by what happened in Abu Dhabi.

[Red Rock Mutley]

... All true, but I still think a little hard on Masi. He has been in a no win position for a while now just waiting for it to fall on him. Pressure from so many places and all claim the exact opposite of each other...

I think his mistake lay in not fully understanding how badly the turn of events would be received... It was a bad decision, but a very human mistake

I think with the penultimate lap , Masi should have stuck to the 'No lapped cars are unlapping themselves' reason being to get a race to finish under green. So Masi did a great job getting the race restarted , stayed within the rules, Merc & RB have no ground to complain. Lewis would have finished 1st and it would have been over . If RedBull complained about the lapped cars, Masi would have said, If I moved them out the way, it would have taken 1 extra lap to do, so finishing under SC. No one could have argued this , and Masi probably would hav ekept his job and we would be moving in to 2022 without 2021 being marred by what happened in Abu Dhabi.

Given the situation, that does appear to be the only way to stay within the rules as they are written. Sadly, I don't think it would have changed the outcome of the race, nor his fate. As Big Tea said, his situation had become no-win earlier in the year. He had become the centre of a political debate, in which he seemingly had little interest in. Not that he has an effective voice in that arena. Perhaps, he thought it was the FIA's role to play the political game. I have some sympathy; that's not an unreasonable belief

[NathanOlder]

Sadly, I don't think it would have changed the outcome of the race

You mean if the backmarkers were not moved out the way , Max would have still won ? No chance Max would have won with the 5 backmarkers.

[shamyakovic]

Sadly, I don't think it would have changed the outcome of the race

You mean if the backmarkers were not moved out the way , Max would have still won ? No chance Max would have won with the 5 backmarkers.

As it didn't happen, no way to know. There could have been so many hypothetical possibilities like a back marker running in to Lewis in an overzealous attempt to win the race!

Backmarkers running into the leader to win the race? How are they going to do that? Run into every car to unlap themselves and then run into all the cars again to overtake them and win the race and all that in 1 lap?

[shamyakovic]

Sadly, I don't think it would have changed the outcome of the race

You mean if the backmarkers were not moved out the way , Max would have still won ? No chance Max would have won with the 5 backmarkers.

Exactly, there is no way Max would have won with 5 cars in between. Maybe he would come right behind Lewis in the final sector and then Lewis would have easily defended in the last sector

[dans79]

I'd be more inclined to believe Max would run into a back marker in his desperation to get passed as fast as possible!