FIA Thread

[NathanOlder]

As it didn't happen, no way to know. There could have been so many hypothetical possibilities like a back marker running in to Lewis in an overzealous attempt to win the race!

Backmarkers running into the leader to win the race? How are they going to do that? Run into every car to unlap themselves and then run into all the cars again to overtake them and win the race and all that in 1 lap?

Thanks for driving the point. Then how can one expect the race to restart while back markers in between? How does that make any sense? Total nonsense argument to ask if Max would have won by overtaking all back markers.

Because the race was about to be restarted with backmarkers in the way. As that is nit against the rules. Masi could have done so, was about to do so, the RedBull influenced his decision. Masi had 2 options after he didnt red flag it, restart with back markers in the way, or not restart at all. Guess which one RedBull would want.

[NathanOlder]

I'd be more inclined to believe Max would run into a back marker in his desperation to get passed as fast as possible!

Very likely, he would have been lucky to pass all 5 by the end of the 2nd DRS zone. Not that DRS was available. Then he would have been 3-4 seconds behind going in to the final sector.

[izzy]

I'd be more inclined to believe Max would run into a back marker in his desperation to get passed as fast as possible!

He did that perfectly well on Lewis and won the championship! So what's the point of arguing on things that didn't happen.

The point is to understand why Masi changed his decision. His first decision was legal and correct, and was going to give a racing lap at the end. His second decision was exactly the same in every way except it was illegal and a nightmare in waiting for him and going to give Max the win.

He had 4 minutes to think about it, and get messages. So did he really change it for a team? Not likely I don't think, I mean he turned down teams all the time, every race.

[shamyakovic]

I'd be more inclined to believe Max would run into a back marker in his desperation to get passed as fast as possible!

He did that perfectly well on Lewis and won the championship! So what's the point of arguing on things that didn't happen.

But as he didn't pass any backmarkers before passing Lewis, then like u said before, there is no way of knowing it

[shamyakovic]

I'd be more inclined to believe Max would run into a back marker in his desperation to get passed as fast as possible!

He did that perfectly well on Lewis and won the championship! So what's the point of arguing on things that didn't happen.

The point is to understand why Masi changed his decision. His first decision was legal and correct, and was going to give a racing lap at the end. His second decision was exactly the same in every way except it was illegal and a nightmare in waiting for him and going to give Max the win.

He had 4 minutes to think about it, and get messages. So did he really change it for a team? Not likely I don't think, I mean he turned down teams all the time, every race.

As he used the exact same words Johathan Wheatly used to shut down Toto, it's perfectly clear that he was influenced by redbull. I woulsnt blame redbull, any team would have done it (maybe not to the dirty extend redbull would have done).

[NathanOlder]

Thanks for driving the point. Then how can one expect the race to restart while back markers in between? How does that make any sense? Total nonsense argument to ask if Max would have won by overtaking all back markers.

Because the race was about to be restarted with backmarkers in the way. As that is nit against the rules. Masi could have done so, was about to do so, the RedBull influenced his decision. Masi had 2 options after he didnt red flag it, restart with back markers in the way, or not restart at all. Guess which one RedBull would want.

Masi was confused when he was indecisive of removing the backmarkers when he should have legitimately and delayed the decision. That doesn't mean, there was any chance of restarting the race by leaving the backmarkers in between, Red Bull influence or not. So it's moot argument if Max would cleared the backmarkers and go on a fantasy ride of what could have happened.

The race was only a minute or 2 away from restarting with the backmarkers in the way, Its not fantasy. Its been mentioned many times that the race director has the power to leave all the backmarkers where they are if he has reason to do so, and getting a race restarting before the chequered flag is a valid reason.

[izzy]

He did that perfectly well on Lewis and won the championship! So what's the point of arguing on things that didn't happen.

The point is to understand why Masi changed his decision. His first decision was legal and correct, and was going to give a racing lap at the end. His second decision was exactly the same in every way except it was illegal and a nightmare in waiting for him and going to give Max the win.

He had 4 minutes to think about it, and get messages. So did he really change it for a team? Not likely I don't think, I mean he turned down teams all the time, every race.

As he used the exact same words Johathan Wheatly used to shut down Toto, it's perfectly clear that he was influenced by redbull. I woulsnt blame redbull, any team would have done it (maybe not to the dirty extend redbull would have done).

They weren't exactly the same words and anyway they were a nonsense weren't they, it was less racing if anything. What we lack is a motive, and a team pleading, versus another one, isn't it.

It was extremely brazen, and always, always going to be a nightmare. He left some cars in place! So why? No not to have tea with Jonathan and Christian afterwards

[chrisc90]

I think the 5 in between could/would have pulled to the side and allowed max to pass. Whether all that would have happened before he got to turn 4 when Max passed Lewis is another thing.

Those saying Masi were influenced..... Do you not think Toto influenced Masi mid way through the race when there was a VSC period, rather than pulling out the actual safety car. I think a LOT of people seem to forget that BOTH teams were hinting at the RD to do certain things. Merc had 2 chances to pit onto fresher tyres, (exactly what RB did with Max) Lewis even questioned that decision to stay out on older tyres himself on both counts.

Cant forget the other decisions/influences of teams in previous races, not just Dubai. For me, Merc/Bottas should have been given a penalty for not keeping within 10car lengths in Jeddah to allow the double stack before the red flag come out. That was meant to get looked at during the race, but that never happened after Wheatley rightfully brought it to Masi's attention

[izzy]

I think the 5 in between could/would have pulled to the side and allowed max to pass. Whether all that would have happened before he got to turn 4 when Max passed Lewis is another thing.

Those saying Masi were influenced..... Do you not think Toto influenced Masi mid way through the race when there was a VSC period, rather than pulling out the actual safety car. I think a LOT of people seem to forget that BOTH teams were hinting at the RD to do certain things. Merc had 2 chances to pit onto fresher tyres, (exactly what RB did with Max) Lewis even questioned that decision to stay out on older tyres himself on both counts.

Cant forget the other decisions/influences of teams in previous races, not just Dubai. For me, Merc/Bottas should have been given a penalty for not keeping within 10car lengths in Jeddah to allow the double stack before the red flag come out. That was meant to get looked at during the race, but that never happened after Wheatley rightfully brought it to Masi's attention

There was no chance for them to pit Lewis without giving Max track position. If Max had been in front, why would Masi have unlapped the cars between them? Answer: no reason at all, so he wouldn't have.

The 10 car lengths thing was an example of Masi actually being good at his specialist subject: the rules. As he explained at the time that only applies to the formation lap to not a restart.

[izzy]

Masi was confused when he was indecisive of removing the backmarkers when he should have legitimately and delayed the decision. That doesn't mean, there was any chance of restarting the race by leaving the backmarkers in between, Red Bull influence or not. So it's moot argument if Max would cleared the backmarkers and go on a fantasy ride of what could have happened.

The race was only a minute or 2 away from restarting with the backmarkers in the way, Its not fantasy. Its been mentioned many times that the race director has the power to leave all the backmarkers where they are if he has reason to do so, and getting a race restarting before the chequered flag is a valid reason.

Race director's mistake was that he delayed taking a decision to let back markers go, which led to what happened then. It was never an option to let them race with back markers in between for one lap, so it is a fantasy to imagine it.

He did restart with back markers in place. And he didn't delay his decision, he changed it.

[Big Tea]

Just mentioning, although passing back markers would have been easy for Max, it would also have run down his charge and allowed Lewis to extend the time gap, so we really have no idea what would have happened. But come on guys, it has been done to death now on just about every thread.

[chrisc90]

I think the 5 in between could/would have pulled to the side and allowed max to pass. Whether all that would have happened before he got to turn 4 when Max passed Lewis is another thing.

Those saying Masi were influenced..... Do you not think Toto influenced Masi mid way through the race when there was a VSC period, rather than pulling out the actual safety car. I think a LOT of people seem to forget that BOTH teams were hinting at the RD to do certain things. Merc had 2 chances to pit onto fresher tyres, (exactly what RB did with Max) Lewis even questioned that decision to stay out on older tyres himself on both counts.

Cant forget the other decisions/influences of teams in previous races, not just Dubai. For me, Merc/Bottas should have been given a penalty for not keeping within 10car lengths in Jeddah to allow the double stack before the red flag come out. That was meant to get looked at during the race, but that never happened after Wheatley rightfully brought it to Masi's attention

There was no chance for them to pit Lewis without giving Max track position. If Max had been in front, why would Masi have unlapped the cars between them? Answer: no reason at all, so he wouldn't have.

The 10 car lengths thing was an example of Masi actually being good at his specialist subject: the rules. As he explained at the time that only applies to the formation lap to not a restart.

Then Lewis would have had the faster car to get past Max though? New set of Meds or softs and directly behind max on older tyres means easy overtake (at the VSC period)

Regarding the 10 car rule...this WASNT the formation lap. It was the race where Mick Schumacher was in barrier on lap 10. Last time I knew, there was no formation laps behind the safety car during the actual race.

1mins 15secs onwards in the video (if it allows me to link it). What are your thoughts on that 'incident'?

[izzy]

I think the 5 in between could/would have pulled to the side and allowed max to pass. Whether all that would have happened before he got to turn 4 when Max passed Lewis is another thing.

Those saying Masi were influenced..... Do you not think Toto influenced Masi mid way through the race when there was a VSC period, rather than pulling out the actual safety car. I think a LOT of people seem to forget that BOTH teams were hinting at the RD to do certain things. Merc had 2 chances to pit onto fresher tyres, (exactly what RB did with Max) Lewis even questioned that decision to stay out on older tyres himself on both counts.

Cant forget the other decisions/influences of teams in previous races, not just Dubai. For me, Merc/Bottas should have been given a penalty for not keeping within 10car lengths in Jeddah to allow the double stack before the red flag come out. That was meant to get looked at during the race, but that never happened after Wheatley rightfully brought it to Masi's attention

There was no chance for them to pit Lewis without giving Max track position. If Max had been in front, why would Masi have unlapped the cars between them? Answer: no reason at all, so he wouldn't have.

The 10 car lengths thing was an example of Masi actually being good at his specialist subject: the rules. As he explained at the time that only applies to the formation lap to not a restart.

Then Lewis would have had the faster car to get past Max though? New set of Meds or softs and directly behind max on older tyres means easy overtake (at the VSC period)

Regarding the 10 car rule...this WASNT the formation lap. It was the race where Mick Schumacher was in barrier on lap 10. Last time I knew, there was no formation laps behind the safety car during the actual race.

1mins 15secs onwards in the video (if it allows me to link it). What are your thoughts on that 'incident'?

Lewis would not have been directly behind would he, the rules said that to be sure of having a legal racing lap the lapped cars had to stay in place.

And yes exactly, it wasn't a formation lap, that's what Masi told Jonathan.

[chrisc90]

There was no chance for them to pit Lewis without giving Max track position. If Max had been in front, why would Masi have unlapped the cars between them? Answer: no reason at all, so he wouldn't have.

The 10 car lengths thing was an example of Masi actually being good at his specialist subject: the rules. As he explained at the time that only applies to the formation lap to not a restart.

Then Lewis would have had the faster car to get past Max though? New set of Meds or softs and directly behind max on older tyres means easy overtake (at the VSC period)

Regarding the 10 car rule...this WASNT the formation lap. It was the race where Mick Schumacher was in barrier on lap 10. Last time I knew, there was no formation laps behind the safety car during the actual race.

1mins 15secs onwards in the video (if it allows me to link it). What are your thoughts on that 'incident'?

Lewis would not have been directly behind would he, the rules said that to be sure of having a legal racing lap the lapped cars had to stay in place.

And yes exactly, it wasn't a formation lap, that's what Masi told Jonathan.

I think your confusing yourself, or arent reading exactly what I have wrote.

I didnt mention the end period in Abu Dhabi.... I said the period at the VSC, which I specifically mentioned in my comment (at the VSC period)

Do you think Masi made the right call on not penalising Bottas for failing to adhere to the 10 car maximum gap between cars behind the safety car?

[izzy]

I think your confusing yourself, or arent reading exactly what I have wrote.

I didnt mention the end period in Abu Dhabi.... I said the period at the VSC, which I specifically mentioned in my comment (at the VSC period)

Do you think Masi made the right call on not penalising Bottas for failing to adhere to the 10 car maximum gap between cars behind the safety car?

oh well you're just deflecting.

The whole thing is institutionally dishonest, is my problem with it. An unholy alliance between F1 after the extra money from having Max wdc, various Max vans and Lewis antifans, people with dubious agendas, trolls with fake bad gramer, FIA looking after themselves etc etc. We had Peter Bayer saying it was to finish under green and Masi had to decide in seconds - he's the FIA Head of Single Seaters just blatantly lying like that, and all the tame media doing the same, Martin Brundle and everyone else, being dishonest.

Of course modern F1 has always been like that, I mean Bernie and Max Mosely lol. But still