A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
Sorry if already posted. via Stefan Baldauf of AMuS
Mercedes, Ferrari and Alpha Tauri have even pulled the nose down to above the lowest element. These three teams therefore have the longest noses in the field, but their shapes differ significantly. For example, the rounded and elegant tip of the Silver Arrow protrudes particularly low down.
"The Mercedes solution with the deep nose generates more downforce at the front. They need it for balance because they obviously have a lot of it in the rear," an engineer from the competition tells us. A short nose, on the other hand, allows more air to flow under the car to the rear.
Just out of interest,assuming the overweight claims are to be believed, if a team is double digits overweight, how would they go about reducing it without compromising performance too much? I guess they could use more exotic materials that weigh less but have similar properties which wouldn't need a redesign. Are there any other areas or ways they could lower the weights? 10+ kg is pretty significant when everything is already pretty lean and measured to the gram.
Just out of interest,assuming the overweight claims are to be believed, if a team is double digits overweight, how would they go about reducing it without compromising performance too much? I guess they could use more exotic materials that weigh less but have similar properties which wouldn't need a redesign. Are there any other areas or ways they could lower the weights? 10+ kg is pretty significant when everything is already pretty lean and measured to the gram.
In extreme cases it could mean reducing radiator size and capacity, 1ltr = 1 KG (ish) reducing depth of wings etc, but I would suggest removing or incorporating ancillaries.
It will be difficult to remove material if the crash teats have been passed.
When arguing with a fool, be sure the other person is not doing the same thing.
Obviously I don't work in an F1 team, but I believe the overweight is likely caused by simpler, faster to machine parts that you would use for testing purposes. Imagine spending 15% more machining time to make a part lighter when the team urgently needs to get the car assembled and running to test other more complex systems. They will not waste time with this so inevitably, the teams will have many heavier than race-spec parts on the car in winter testing. The additional weight of prototype non-critical parts, like say the bracket that holds the pedals, or the strut that holds the bib, or some bracket for electronics boxes or the like is not relevant to their testing programme. That extra 10kg won't change their findings. So coming up to the second test, and the first race I suspect they will produce fully machined out parts and lighter body-work.
yes!!! only 3 Kg permitted. So 798 kg the weight limit. Sauber and Mclaren are on it, Mercedes only 1 kg over, Ferrari 3 kg overall. That is the point. The teams knew they had to make compromises on weight versus performance from the begining. The teams that have the car overweight if they dont lose performance on coming to the limit than at least should waste some resources by coming down to 798 kg.
yes!!! only 3 Kg permitted. So 798 kg the weight limit. Sauber and Mclaren are on it, Mercedes only 1 kg over, Ferrari 3 kg overall. That is the point. The teams knew they had to make compromises on weight versus performance from the begining. The teams that have the car overweight if they dont lose performance on coming to the limit than at least should waste some resources by coming down to 798 kg.
I still think that shows a lack of backbone by the FIA. The minimum weight should be seen as a target, if too easily achievable it becomes a poor target. Later this year, when some development has taken place and the cars get below the weight limit, will the limit be reduced to the original?
A very poor show!!
Perspective - Understanding that sometimes the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view.
yes!!! only 3 Kg permitted. So 798 kg the weight limit. Sauber and Mclaren are on it, Mercedes only 1 kg over, Ferrari 3 kg overall. That is the point. The teams knew they had to make compromises on weight versus performance from the begining. The teams that have the car overweight if they dont lose performance on coming to the limit than at least should waste some resources by coming down to 798 kg.
I still think that shows a lack of backbone by the FIA. The minimum weight should be seen as a target, if too easily achievable it becomes a poor target. Later this year, when some development has taken place and the cars get below the weight limit, will the limit be reduced to the original?
A very poor show!!
While I am no fan of increasing the weight, y'all are missing the fact that the wheels and tires came in 1 kg over the model, and the rim aero covers were never included in the model weight that's 2/3 of the 3 kgs right there. The FIA screwed up.
Last edited by mantikos on 07 Mar 2022, 20:21, edited 1 time in total.
Obviously I don't work in an F1 team, but I believe the overweight is likely caused by simpler, faster to machine parts that you would use for testing purposes. Imagine spending 15% more machining time to make a part lighter when the team urgently needs to get the car assembled and running to test other more complex systems.
A good chance exists that this is part of it. I'd add that depending on the part,and its geometry, 15% could be very low. I've seen parts where the finishing passes with small endmills is 90-95% of the total operation time.
Another possibility is that the teams are using lower modulus CF (aka cheaper) for testing, but this means they need more of it.
yes!!! only 3 Kg permitted. So 798 kg the weight limit. Sauber and Mclaren are on it, Mercedes only 1 kg over, Ferrari 3 kg overall. That is the point. The teams knew they had to make compromises on weight versus performance from the begining. The teams that have the car overweight if they dont lose performance on coming to the limit than at least should waste some resources by coming down to 798 kg.
I still think that shows a lack of backbone by the FIA. The minimum weight should be seen as a target, if too easily achievable it becomes a poor target. Later this year, when some development has taken place and the cars get below the weight limit, will the limit be reduced to the original?
A very poor show!!
Agreed. The teams all know the minimum weight limit and they make design choices for their car. If they choose a route that keeps them above that minimum weight limit, then that's their problem. Other teams have got down to the limit (or close to it) and they should benefit from having done that.
I bet if it was Alfa and Haas that were well over and Red Bull et al were achieving the limit, the limit wouldn't be changed. It's just the usual baking in of help to the big teams at the expense of the small ones.
If you are more fortunate than others, build a larger table not a taller fence.
While I am no fan of increasing the weight, y'all are missing the fact that the wheels and tires came in 1 kg over the model, and the rim aero covers were never included in the model weight that's 2/3 of the 3 kgs right there. The FIA screwed up.
This. Increasing by the amount that was (according to this article anyway) a result of the weights of components provided to the teams being incorrect seems pretty logical. Any more than that, I agree, is the team’s’ responsibility.
