Mercedes W13

[dans79]

maybe graphene nanofluids, and some kind of new secondary heat exchanger. The primary heat exchangers are fairly locked down by the rules, but secondary ones are pretty wide open!

what do you mean with "secondary heat exchanger"? in addiction to an usual water radiator? (I think water as cooler for
the engine is mandatory) and how an addictional device could help to save space?

it's in the technical regulations.
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... -02-18.pdf

see section 7.4 Heat exchangers

Primary Heat Exchanger: a heat exchanger that uses the air flowing over or through
the car to cool a fluid, which includes all of the core, tubes, header plates, header
tanks and fins.

Secondary Heat Exchanger: a heat exchanger that uses a fluid other than the air
flowing over or through the car to cool another fluid.

I'm not aware of any rules that mandate the use of water, it's just the most common.

special fluids with a higher specific heat means more heat can be transferred away from the PU for a given volume of coolant. The primary exchangers are severely restricted, see 7.4.2!

Secondary exchangers are wide open. This is the only restriction on secondary exchangers.

Secondary heat exchangers must be constructed from metallic materials with the exception
of any sealing or bonding.

Thus, they can have complex geometries to fit into nooks and crannies.

[dans79]

Radiator design might be where its at, microtubes f.e., although it's worth noting no teams have used them in the sidepods (only in the intake post air filter) despite the tech being available for a decade or more.

They can't the rules forbid it in the primary exchangers.

7.4.2 d

The internal cross section of any tube must have an area of at least 10mm2, without considering structural stiffening ribs and the internal fins described in point (e) below.

[SmallSoldier]

https://mobile.twitter.com/GiulyDuchess ... 6528117765

Translation:

Yes, Mercedes will have ultra small bellies. It will have a frightening efficiency over the bottom, especially towards the slipstream/ post/beam wing.
On the other hand the need to have always high enough incidences to generate load in the slow and in braking.
The clue was the post wing >>

I think I need a translation of the translation.

Are they suggesting that the design of the beam wing is proof that the car will have even smaller sidepods?

Their suggestion is not due to the main wing, is due to the Rear Wing, which in Barcelona was the biggest of all teams

[vorticism]

They can't the rules forbid it in the primary exchangers.

7.4.2 d

The internal cross section of any tube must have an area of at least 10mm2, without considering structural stiffening ribs and the internal fins described in point (e) below.

I should have known. Any idea when this was implemented? Nano materials are forbidden in the power unit materials (5.17). Not sure if the coolant is counted as a component in that sense.

The secondary heat exchanger, in not using air flowing "around or through" still relies on the regulated geometry primary radiators. It can only add weight and complexity, like the air-water intercoolers do. However their benefit is greater than their complexity, according to Ferrari and Merc. If so, then, yes, why not an engine or oil 'intercooler?' It could be quite compact as liquid-liquid HEs usually are. But it won't necessarily make the main radiators any smaller.

[Marty_Y]

This sounds more realistic to me than a chemical cooling system.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/merc ... n/8846608/

Will Mercedes really shock F1 with radical 'zeropod' design?
Speculation that Mercedes will arrive in Bahrain with a totally overhauled car ‘without sidepods’ has become a bit of a meme over the last few days, as people try to imagine how that could even work.

By:
Matt Somerfield
Co-author:
Giorgio Piola
Mar 9, 2022, 6:39 PM

[dans79]

Any idea when this was implemented?

No idea, but given the wording of the rules i bet it's been a while!

Nano materials are forbidden in the power unit materials (5.17). Not sure if the coolant is counted as a component in that sense.

even that isn't absolute.

15.5 p

Nano particles are permitted when part of a commercially available polymer or polymer resin.

The secondary heat exchanger, in not using air flowing "around or through" still relies on the regulated geometry primary radiators. It can only add weight and complexity, like the air-water intercoolers do. However their benefit is greater than their complexity, according to Ferrari and Merc. If so, then, yes, why not an engine or oil 'intercooler?' It could be quite compact as liquid-liquid HEs usually are. But it won't necessarily make the main radiators any smaller.

You might be able to make the primaries smaller by allowing the secondaries to act as heat reservoirs. At slow speeds when the primaries don't have enough cooling capacity, the temperature of the fluid in the secondaries will rise, but at high speed when the primaries have more than enough cooling capacity the temperature drops in the secondaries.

You would only be limited by how much heat, and heat cycling the the PU can withstand. if the secondary coolant is water based you are limited to a pressure of 3.75bar (5.24.1).

[AR3-GP]

There was a post earlier about Mercedes reducing the drag of the sidepods. Making them smaller would be consistent.

[Stu]

maybe graphene nanofluids, and some kind of new secondary heat exchanger. The primary heat exchangers are fairly locked down by the rules, but secondary ones are pretty wide open!

what do you mean with "secondary heat exchanger"? in addiction to an usual water radiator? (I think water as cooler for
the engine is mandatory) and how an addictional device could help to save space?

it's in the technical regulations.
https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... -02-18.pdf

see section 7.4 Heat exchangers

Primary Heat Exchanger: a heat exchanger that uses the air flowing over or through
the car to cool a fluid, which includes all of the core, tubes, header plates, header
tanks and fins.

Secondary Heat Exchanger: a heat exchanger that uses a fluid other than the air
flowing over or through the car to cool another fluid.

I'm not aware of any rules that mandate the use of water, it's just the most common.

special fluids with a higher specific heat means more heat can be transferred away from the PU for a given volume of coolant. The primary exchangers are severely restricted, see 7.4.2!

Secondary exchangers are wide open. This is the only restriction on secondary exchangers.

Secondary heat exchangers must be constructed from metallic materials with the exception
of any sealing or bonding.

Thus, they can have complex geometries to fit into nooks and crannies.

They have been using a secondary cooling device since 2014 (the charge-cooler), there were rumours last year of ‘supercooling’ within the inlet plenum; however, these were never proven.

This year there have already been rumours of a cooling system housed within the fuel tank. Now it is of a side-pod free design.

Thing is, if the (current) secondary cooling systems become more powerful than the (current) primary cooling systems, the whole thing becomes illegal anyway…

To run without side pods all primary cooling capacity would have to be carried on the centreline of the car (and still be more effective than the secondary cooling);the roll-hoop inlets have a maximum size. Which leaves surface cooling.

[Hoffman900]

In Honda's Research Library, they have a little white paper entitled:
Research on Coolant Using Nano Additives and Heavy Water

Research was done on coolants with the objective of increasing automobile radiator cooling efficiency and contributing to aerodynamics by enhancing the thermophysical properties of engine coolants.
The research confirmed the effectiveness of adding nano additives to enhance heat conductance, as well as using heavy water in solvent to increase specific heat of the coolant. Because evaluations of cooling performance in actual engines have not shown a clear difference from conventional coolants using water, a precise heat transfer measurement technology was established to clarify the factors affecting heat transfer, and from this, directions were established for the development of engine coolants.

This is for their 2009 F1 program. Doesn't tell you a lot, but certainly shows a thought process.

[dans79]

In Honda's Research Library, they have a little white paper entitled:
Research on Coolant Using Nano Additives and Heavy Water

Research was done on coolants with the objective of increasing automobile radiator cooling efficiency and contributing to aerodynamics by enhancing the thermophysical properties of engine coolants.
The research confirmed the effectiveness of adding nano additives to enhance heat conductance, as well as using heavy water in solvent to increase specific heat of the coolant. Because evaluations of cooling performance in actual engines have not shown a clear difference from conventional coolants using water, a precise heat transfer measurement technology was established to clarify the factors affecting heat transfer, and from this, directions were established for the development of engine coolants.

This is for their 2009 F1 program. Doesn't tell you a lot, but certainly shows a thought process.

And for those that might not be aware of it, The 2008/2009 Honda team is the modern day Merc team!

[dans79]

This year there have already been rumours of a cooling system housed within the fuel tank. Now it is of a side-pod free design.

I think that might be technically legal, but it would come with a host of major issues.

1. The fuel Must be no more than 10C below ambient temperature. (6.4.2)
2. The plenum air temperature must be more 10C above ambient (5.7.8 )
3. The volume and thus capacity of the hear reservoir would change over the course of a race (fuel burn off)

Thus if you use the fuel tank to cool the PU, you have to work even harder to cool the inletchare, while not violating the temperature constraint. Your ability to cool the PU would reduce as the fuel warms, and it's volume reduces.

Thing is, if the (current) secondary cooling systems become more powerful than the (current) primary cooling systems, the whole thing becomes illegal anyway…

How would it be illegal?

[Stu]

This year there have already been rumours of a cooling system housed within the fuel tank. Now it is of a side-pod free design.

I think that might be technically legal, but it would come with a host of major issues.

1. The fuel Must be no more than 10C below ambient temperature. (6.4.2)
2. The plenum air temperature must be more 10C above ambient (5.7.8 )
3. The volume and thus capacity of the hear reservoir would change over the course of a race (fuel burn off)

Thus if you use the fuel tank to cool the PU, you have to work even harder to cool the inletchare, while not violating the temperature constraint. Your ability to cool the PU would reduce as the fuel warms, and it's volume reduces.

Thing is, if the (current) secondary cooling systems become more powerful than the (current) primary cooling systems, the whole thing becomes illegal anyway…

How would it be illegal?

From a legal perspective (and the regulations are a legal document), whichever cooling system does the greater amount of cooling would be considered the primary cooling system. A fine line to play…

[Hoffman900]

This year there have already been rumours of a cooling system housed within the fuel tank. Now it is of a side-pod free design.

I think that might be technically legal, but it would come with a host of major issues.

1. The fuel Must be no more than 10C below ambient temperature. (6.4.2)
2. The plenum air temperature must be more 10C above ambient (5.7.8 )
3. The volume and thus capacity of the hear reservoir would change over the course of a race (fuel burn off)

Thus if you use the fuel tank to cool the PU, you have to work even harder to cool the inletchare, while not violating the temperature constraint. Your ability to cool the PU would reduce as the fuel warms, and it's volume reduces.

Thing is, if the (current) secondary cooling systems become more powerful than the (current) primary cooling systems, the whole thing becomes illegal anyway…

How would it be illegal?

Anyone know what the fuel pressure is for these TJI systems?

I know rail pressure for their port injection set up was 100bar.

Audi’s DTM engine is rules limited to 35MPa (but can go to 50MPa).

Ethanol also has a greater evaporative cooling abilities than gasoline. This is why Indy and other boosted classes have been a long time fan of it or methanol.

My point being, when accounting for the evaporative rate of cooling from high pressure, it should work itself out. That said, a TJI is injecting when cylinder pressure is near its mechanical peak, but it should have a higher delta than a typical low pressure port injected set up.

[AR3-GP]

If you are heating the fuel, and the fuel simply goes to the engine, then are you actually cooling anything?

I can't imagine there is any "heat reservoir" phenomena that allows them to run a reduced cooling system for a 90 minute long race. It would work for some qualifying laps but I think a race distance is too long.

I think the heat reservoir was a component of their "supercooling" system from last season. I imagine for a short duration, a mass was being heated until it reached some sort of equilibrium and the supercooling went away. The report from last season is that engine knock (pre-ignition) is what destroyed all their engines.

[Marty_Y]

This year there have already been rumours of a cooling system housed within the fuel tank. Now it is of a side-pod free design.

I think that might be technically legal, but it would come with a host of major issues.

1. The fuel Must be no more than 10C below ambient temperature. (6.4.2)
2. The plenum air temperature must be more 10C above ambient (5.7.8 )
3. The volume and thus capacity of the hear reservoir would change over the course of a race (fuel burn off)

Thus if you use the fuel tank to cool the PU, you have to work even harder to cool the inletchare, while not violating the temperature constraint. Your ability to cool the PU would reduce as the fuel warms, and it's volume reduces.

Thing is, if the (current) secondary cooling systems become more powerful than the (current) primary cooling systems, the whole thing becomes illegal anyway…

How would it be illegal?

I assume he's saying if the secondary cooling system becomes more powerful than the primary system then the secondary system becomes the primary system and the rules that apply to the primary system would make it illegal?