The Obvious has become VERY Obvious!

[TauToadmiester]

As everyone here already knows or should, A great/fast/reliable car is a MUST and a great team/strategy is a MUST, whereas most/all current F1 drivers are likely good enough to win races if not win the championship.

Luck most of the time is the driver or team actions (accident avoidance (Kubica-Vettel), tire change fiascos (Fer), etc) but only rarely the Whim/Capriciousness of the Universe (rain/heat). ie- nearly all F1 things are under control of humans!

Witness, the brawn drivers (great car/team so far), driver/s are good enough (even if Flav thinks not), universe helped in Malaysia, but look at the known great divers, Alonso, Massa, Kimi, etc who do not have that great car, well Flav are these slaggard-truck drivers? I think NOT!

I personally like the reversal of fortunes this year so far!! I like the 2 tire rule which causes mix ups if team strategy is not great. I actually think the FIA diffusor decision was to continue the mix up, for the good of the sport, not necessarily correct on the tech/intent rule side of things.

But the OBVIOUS is, tada, A great car, NOT quite so much the great F1 driver who can pull a bad car up (Ferrari, Force-I, BMW, etc). But of course the driver DOES matter, he who does not screw up and with pace!

Even MS/F had his/their bad races/years!!

'The proceeding has been a statement of the OBVIOUS'

On with this chaotic season!!!!!

[avatar]

MS = M Schumcher
F = Fangio/Fernando ?

[nudger]

not sure i agree about the diffusor....i think had the decision gone the other way (irrespective of whether that was right or not) we would likely have a much more interesting season.
as things are, its going to be some time before a brawn dosnt win in the dry, or a red bull dosnt win in the wet.

[jon-mullen]

There is a very real difference between the champions that are tooling around at the back of the pack this year and some of last year's backmarkers that are scoring points finishes. The difference is that the champions are still driving at the limit despite their cars.

Button didn't drive at his limit the last two years. The team told him the car had a "fundamental aerodynamic flaw" and he gave up. (In case you're wondering, yes, I can read his mind.) Every driver last year finished ahead of him in points excepting the FIF1s and the SAs (duh).

Now he's got a fast car. Good for him. But I think we both know there are drivers in that field who WANT IT A LOT MORE. That's why they've already won championships (Alonso, Raikkonen, and even Lewis) and will win championships (Vettel, Massa still has time). I mean, hell, did you see Vettel's pole lap? That was the limit. You ever need to find the limit, call one of those guys.

If Button wins this championship I will eat my hat. And his stubble does make him look like a sluggard truck driver. Please Jenson, prove me wrong.

[Richard]

As everyone here already knows or should, A great/fast/reliable car is a MUST and a great team/strategy is a MUST, whereas most/all current F1 drivers are likely good enough to win races if not win the championship.

Nearly, but not quite.

A weaker driver will never be able to pull out the pole qualifying laps that the great drivers achieve. Equally, the great drivers seem to be able to overtake whereas as others merely follow the car in front and wait for strategy to sort itself out. The great drivers use rain to their advantage. Great drivers will take more risks and have more accidents, but the overall balance is to their advantage. All these factors are needed every lap, of every race, to win a championship.

Sure, you need a good car and strategy to have the tools available, but it still takes talent to nail the advtange home (and beat your teammate - ref Alonso 07 and the both Ferraris in both 07 & 08).

[fizzer]

Don't forget that a great driver is necessary to really help a team's development. This is even more important now with limited testing.

Telemetry is all well and good, but it can't describe certain nuances of a car's behavior like a driver - how all those data points coalesce into an overall feel for the car. You hear the word "balance" a hundred times over a GP weekend on the coverage. That's really only something a driver can ascertain and the ideal balance is unique to each driver.

Car development is reflective of both driver and engineer skill.

[PNSD]

Button didn't drive at his limit the last two years. The team told him the car had a "fundamental aerodynamic flaw" and he gave up. (In case you're wondering, yes, I can read his mind.) Every driver last year finished ahead of him in points excepting the FIF1s and the SAs (duh).

Now he's got a fast car. Good for him. But I think we both know there are drivers in that field who WANT IT A LOT MORE. That's why they've already won championships (Alonso, Raikkonen, and even Lewis) and will win championships (Vettel, Massa still has time). I mean, hell, did you see Vettel's pole lap? That was the limit. You ever need to find the limit, call one of those guys.

If Button wins this championship I will eat my hat. And his stubble does make him look like a sluggard truck driver. Please Jenson, prove me wrong.

Im sorry but who are you to comment on Buttons commitment to either 07, 08 or even say others want it more?!

This is an F1technical forum, not a childs playground. Unless you can provide statistical, factual evidence to back up your claims do not comment such silly things. Did you even see some of the drives Button had in 2007? The amount of overtaking he did? Before you even begin to question his commitment take a 'real' look at what happened. Ok, I REALLY REALLY want to be an F1 champion, hell, more than anyone, why am I not? I mean, using your logic, if I want it more then I get it? Im sorry but that is such a blind comment to make.

[jon-mullen]

Did I see some of Button's drives in '07...yes, all of them in fact.

Do I remember a single one...no, not really.

Thankfully, these statistics are available! Let's see...17 starts, 0 wins, 0 podiums, 0 poles, 0 fast laps, 6 points. Rubens had a better finish in 11 of 17 GPs.

Maybe Jenson had some great drives if you put your ITV goggles on, but from what I can see his best finish was 5th in the (wet) Chinese GP.

Now, when I think of the '07 season and how much a driver wants to win the championship, I think of the Nurburgring (European GP). Your boy Button spun off on lap 2 (not sure if you recall that or if it's worth recalling), but what most people would remember was this:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egWx6rbt ... re=related[/youtube]

Lewis had a 12 point advantage over Alonso to start the race, but went off in the early stages. He was able to keep the car running but would not finish in the points. Raikkonen was forced to retire with a hydraulics problem. No doubt tasting blood, Alonso is not willing to let the final laps tick down without closing the WDC points gap to Hamilton as much as possible. Some ragged-edge driving and a ballsy move later, he wins.

So dude, that's my great drive from 2007. You mentioned this isn't a child's playground, so I assume you have examples of Button's great 2007 drives? Cause it's the weirdest thing, the first page of youtube results for "Jenson Button 2007" doesn't have a single F1 lap...weird isn't it?

[TheMinister]

Im sorry but who are you to comment on Buttons commitment to either 07, 08 or even say others want it more?!

This is an F1technical forum, not a childs playground. Unless you can provide statistical, factual evidence to back up your claims do not comment such silly things. Did you even see some of the drives Button had in 2007? The amount of overtaking he did? Before you even begin to question his commitment take a 'real' look at what happened. Ok, I REALLY REALLY want to be an F1 champion, hell, more than anyone, why am I not? I mean, using your logic, if I want it more then I get it? Im sorry but that is such a blind comment to make.

Don't go crazy, for some things there is no such thing as statistical, factual evidence. And it's hardly a bold claim- if he can't win, can you really blame him for not being at his absolute sharpest?
Of course talent is involved but it's that extra desire to succeed that you need to be one of the true greats. And it's not so much about on the track commitment (I'd imagine the overtaking bit is fun) as putting in extra hours in the gym, working setups, learning the rules inside-out. The boring bits are often where competitions (this is true of most sport) are won.