Ferrari Power Unit Hardware & Software

[ryaan2904]

Could be. Also present in both Haas and alfa cars btw.

[wowgr8]

Binotto is very forthcoming, if Ferrari had gone split turbo I think he would've talked about it but he hasn't mentioned it at all, although Scarbs from the naked car pictures says it's a split turbo and the dramatic change in the engine sound technically should support this theory, we await better engine pics and confirmation

[AR3-GP]

You cannot escape the logic. Heat transfer from the exhaust turbine to the compressor turbine ruins efficiency. The rational for split turbo is entirely thermodynamic in nature.

[ryaan2904]

You cannot escape the logic. Heat transfer from the exhaust turbine to the compressor turbine ruins efficiency. The rational for split turbo is entirely thermodynamic in nature.

Bruh I thought you were told to scoot over to the merc team thread.
Before you move on tho (hopefully), I'd like to point out, if it 'absolutely ruined' thermo efficiency, every single team would've gone for it way before '22.

[gruntguru]

Yes - complete rubbish. Heat transfer from turbine to compressor is not a significant effect.

[AR3-GP]

You cannot escape the logic. Heat transfer from the exhaust turbine to the compressor turbine ruins efficiency. The rational for split turbo is entirely thermodynamic in nature.

Bruh I thought your were told to scoot over to the merc team thread.
Before you move on tho (hopefully), I'd like to point out, if it 'absolutely ruined' thermo efficiency, every single team would've gone for it way before '22.

Why are you people so sensitive? Good grief. Can you please stick to technical matters as opposed to policing who can post where?

At the moment people believe the Ferrari have a split turbo and that is what is being discussed. This has nothing to do with Mercedes. Why do you keep bringing them up?

[PlatinumZealot]

You cannot escape the logic. Heat transfer from the exhaust turbine to the compressor turbine ruins efficiency. The rational for split turbo is entirely thermodynamic in nature.

This can easily be managed and was not a factor.

[AR3-GP]

You cannot escape the logic. Heat transfer from the exhaust turbine to the compressor turbine ruins efficiency. The rational for split turbo is entirely thermodynamic in nature.

This can easily be managed and was not a factor.

I don't think there is a single silver bullet with a split turbo fyi. Just small things here and there which are desireable. Also, we still don't know what turbo is in the Ferrari. Scarbs said it's a split turbo. Binotto wasn't asked directly. That's why split turbos are being discussed here.

And furthermore, theory and execution are two different things. Just because someone is running a split turbo doesn't mean they can build a good one. So other manufacturers might just not have a good engine compared to Ferrari, regardless of turbo. Ferrari was strong in 2019.

[PlatinumZealot]

Lets do some logic.

Hot exhaust gasses pass thru and expand in the turbine, converting some heat to work. About 90% efficient according to the Ferrari video release. (on a side - this figure is sockingly impressive, near 80% is considered cutting egde efficiency). So about 10% of that heat is exhaust and ramainder emanated to the casing of the turbocharger. Lets say exhaust heat is 8% of this. And the remainding 1% to 2% goes to heating up the turbocharger.

We are taking about maybe... (1% to 2%) x 25% x 850hp(or 634kW) =. From 2.hp/1.5kW to 4.25hp /3kW of heat. (this is like the water heater at your home).

The turbo-charger bearing housing is expected to be water cooled and its bearings are oil cooled. The turbocharger shaft is also involved here.

This amount of cooling of the turbine bearings and shaft be reasonably expected to be independent of where the compressor is located. So this 1.5 to 3KW of heat will be cooled by water and oil. This is a lot of heat. Lets say water and oil cooling is 80% efficient. And you can maintain a temperature of 100 C of the oil.. And the water which represents the bulk tempersture of the housing itself.. We know this is basically the same as wngine block temperature. Dunno. Say 95 C or somthing.

The remainder of this heat not in the coolants is now in the body of turbocharger bearing housing. Maybe 200 watts or so...

If the turbocharger is mounted at the rear of the car the heat is dissipated outside of the Vee of the engine into the engine cover exhaust.

The remainder of this heat now can go to the compressor under two conditions....
Is the temoerature of the compressor colder than it? If yes? The heat will go there.. If no.. The compressor will instead transfer heat to it.

Now.. In a split turbocharger... The engine also surrounds the turbocharger bearing housing. So the ambient temperature here is around the temperature of the cylinder heads.

Heat can tranfer along the bearing housing to the compressor (if compressor is colder) and also some radiation to the cylinder heads if cylinder heads are colder.

Again the turbocharger bearing housing should be very close to engine block temperature for a non split turbocharger... And i suspect this is a minscule difference to the slpit turborcharger housing since it is water cooled too.)

[AR3-GP]

Are you saying that Ferrari do or do not have a split turbo?

[PhillipM]

He's saying that thermodynamics between the two are so small to be irrelevant and certainly aren't the reason you'd ever use as a choice between them. Being 'entirely thermodynamic' certainly isn't the reason. Packaging is.

[vorticism]

Chicken and egg. f.e. There's more ventilating air required around the back of the engine than there is at the front. So it is both a packaging and a thermodynamics question. At the back is the turbine, the wastegates, the tailpipe. At the front is an oil tank, an ambient temperature inlet plenum, and a fuel cell.

[DinkLv]

One of Ferrari's MGU-H assemblies between 2016 and 2019. The single intake into the compressor indicates it to be a post-2016 spec since the hot air pipe from the compressor no longer divides the intake into two:

[AR3-GP]

Was the MGU-H inside the V in the image above? Just trying to understand how the assembly contributes to the center of mass. It has also been speculated that the additional sounds from the tv camera this year could be coming from a repositioned compressor (i.e it is a split turbo and the compressor is now on the front of the engine). That's also ideal from a center of mass perspective. In your assembly above, the turbo assembly has a rearward bias, but if they have moved the compressor to the front, then the mass of the MGU-H/Turbo assembly is closer to the center of the car. Moving the compressor to the front also would allow them to reduce the mass of the intake, shorten the intercooler piping, and move the masses forward. As you can see, there isn't 1 big thing, but rather "optimization by 1000 cuts".

[saviour stivala]

8 months ago Gary Anderson on ‘the race podcast’ expressed his first impressions of the ‘superfast’ project, specifically the news that FERRARI decided not to switch to the ‘split-turbo’ philosophy. ‘’Obviously they must have found something that allows it to run even better or solved some problems with the current one. Which perhaps does not work at its best. But I don’t understand the principle behind the decision not to switch to the ‘split-turbo’ philosophy. Having the compressor at the front and the turbine in the rear, therefore separated, allows you to better manage the temperatures, in setting between the turbine and compressor, the MGU-H. I am surprised that FERRARI has not taken this path’’.