Ferrari F1-75

[LM10]

I think there is a relationship between porpoising and fuel load.
It may be possible ferrari are running lighter than the others and mercedes are running very heavy.
I will wait until Q1 to get an idea of relative pace.

No single person in whole F1 community has come up with a possible relationship of fuel load and porpoising and there was no single indication of what being the case on track.

Why is it so hard to accept the current picture instead of coming up with some advantageous explanations as to why Mercedes might be porpoising or slower compared to Ferrari?

[Chuckjr]

Have you forgotten previous years cars is 100% different from this years cars, so comparing past winter to me is 100% wrong. With the way Ferrari went about their business and not fully turning up their engine, we are all in for a surprise.

I confident ferrari will be competitive.. the new engine looks powerful

At the end of the day its guessing. There is definetely a reason to be confident. The concept of the car seems to be great, the F1-75 was consistently fast, no matter what tyre they used or when they went on track, and the car just behaved very well. No understeer, drivers were able to break late, take more speed into the corners, get on the throttle early...usually thats good signs. Also that all the other teams engineers said Ferrari is Nr. 1, without suggesting they may run on low fuel(what some egineers always suggested in previous years)...
Things are looking good and its really a reason to be confident. But i think Red Bull sucessfully tweaked their car today and they will be very fast! I think Ferrari and Red Bull are fastest with Mercedes third, but 0.5 sec. behind Red Bull and Ferrari. I also think Mercedes will be in trouble in race conditions, as they probably can't get rid of porpoising and over the course of the season - their concept will prove to be wrong.

Completely agree with you guys.

I think the Merc fans are just wishful thinking at this point. That’s at least what I’m reading in the Merc thread. Ferrari was strong right out of the box, and as Al Unser Jr. said about his Penske years ago when they ran the initial tests, cars that are fast out of the box are usually winners. I’ve found after decades of watching/following racing, that cars stable right away and seem to just get on well all though initial testing end up being genuinely fast. That’s certainly not a rule, but a pattern. The Ferrari has seems to be the most consistently fast from the reports I’ve read, the videos I’ve watched, and conversations here on F1 tech. The words about the Ferrari this year remind me of what I’ve read for almost a decade now re Merc. Hoping this all leads to some change at the sharp end.

I think the way Ferrari addressed the rear tire and rear wing and beam wing situation will show to be superior. I remember when Ferrari released the top of the side pod exhaust exit (was it 98?), and this side pod design this year reminds me of that car - I think it was the f300 but my memory may be failing. Wasn’t that a Rory car also?

[AR3-GP]

I think there is a relationship between porpoising and fuel load.
It may be possible ferrari are running lighter than the others and mercedes are running very heavy.
I will wait until Q1 to get an idea of relative pace.

No single person in whole F1 community has come up with a possible relationship of fuel load and porpoising and there was no single indication of what being the case on track.

Why is it so hard to accept the current picture instead of coming up with some advantageous explanations as to why Mercedes might be porpoising or slower compared to Ferrari?

I have no idea what you two are arguing about, but fuel mass acts as a damper. So yes, it does influence the extent of porpoising. The mass of the car changes the equation which governs the porpoising amplitude.

[ringo]

I think there is a relationship between porpoising and fuel load.
It may be possible ferrari are running lighter than the others and mercedes are running very heavy.
I will wait until Q1 to get an idea of relative pace.

No single person in whole F1 community has come up with a possible relationship of fuel load and porpoising and there was no single indication of what being the case on track.

Why is it so hard to accept the current picture instead of coming up with some advantageous explanations as to why Mercedes might be porpoising or slower compared to Ferrari?

No one else has to come up with it. I have a mind of my own. I am an engineer. There is a relationship.

[One and Only]

I think there is a relationship between porpoising and fuel load.
It may be possible ferrari are running lighter than the others and mercedes are running very heavy.
I will wait until Q1 to get an idea of relative pace.

No single person in whole F1 community has come up with a possible relationship of fuel load and porpoising and there was no single indication of what being the case on track.

Why is it so hard to accept the current picture instead of coming up with some advantageous explanations as to why Mercedes might be porpoising or slower compared to Ferrari?

No one else has to come up with it. I have a mind of my own. I am an engineer. There is a relationship.

Would you care to elaborate? It could be important factor this season.

[LM10]

I think there is a relationship between porpoising and fuel load.
It may be possible ferrari are running lighter than the others and mercedes are running very heavy.
I will wait until Q1 to get an idea of relative pace.

No single person in whole F1 community has come up with a possible relationship of fuel load and porpoising and there was no single indication of what being the case on track.

Why is it so hard to accept the current picture instead of coming up with some advantageous explanations as to why Mercedes might be porpoising or slower compared to Ferrari?

No one else has to come up with it. I have a mind of my own. I am an engineer. There is a relationship.

Of course there is, that’s only logical in my opinion. What I’m trying to say is that it’s not to the extent to explain the porposing problem the Mercedes had relative to RBR or Ferrari. If so, we would have seen them porpoising more on long runs as well, but we didn’t.

[ringo]

No single person in whole F1 community has come up with a possible relationship of fuel load and porpoising and there was no single indication of what being the case on track.

Why is it so hard to accept the current picture instead of coming up with some advantageous explanations as to why Mercedes might be porpoising or slower compared to Ferrari?

No one else has to come up with it. I have a mind of my own. I am an engineer. There is a relationship.

Would you care to elaborate? It could be important factor this season.

From a very basic standpoint. The heavier car will run closer to ground and thus the floor will experience choked flow much earlier down the straights.
The floor chokes then the downforce reduces cause the car to lift. But it wont lift back as high or as quickly as it would a lighter car. So it subsequently choke again.
If the car is going really fast this choking cycle is rapid.
In addition the car and suspension combo has a much lower natural frequency when it's heavier. The damping is being provided by the dampers but also the drag force on the car.
Due to the inertia of the heavier car on compression, I am suspecting the oscilations will not settle as quickly as they would a lighter car. The car will be more quick to compress to the ground and choke when its heavier and the damping from drag will have a smaller impact.

This is my thinking anyway. I have not looked into it any deeper than this. But i know the mass is a factor.

[ringo]

No single person in whole F1 community has come up with a possible relationship of fuel load and porpoising and there was no single indication of what being the case on track.

Why is it so hard to accept the current picture instead of coming up with some advantageous explanations as to why Mercedes might be porpoising or slower compared to Ferrari?

No one else has to come up with it. I have a mind of my own. I am an engineer. There is a relationship.

Of course there is, that’s only logical in my opinion. What I’m trying to say is that it’s not to the extent to explain the porposing problem the Mercedes had relative to RBR or Ferrari. If so, we would have seen them porpoising more on long runs as well, but we didn’t.

Some teams may have simply lifted the ride height on long runs hence why you did not see a problem. So there will be tough decisions now on how to setup the car for the race.
Mercedes are trying to have their cake and eat it.

[Andi76]

I confident ferrari will be competitive.. the new engine looks powerful

At the end of the day its guessing. There is definetely a reason to be confident. The concept of the car seems to be great, the F1-75 was consistently fast, no matter what tyre they used or when they went on track, and the car just behaved very well. No understeer, drivers were able to break late, take more speed into the corners, get on the throttle early...usually thats good signs. Also that all the other teams engineers said Ferrari is Nr. 1, without suggesting they may run on low fuel(what some egineers always suggested in previous years)...
Things are looking good and its really a reason to be confident. But i think Red Bull sucessfully tweaked their car today and they will be very fast! I think Ferrari and Red Bull are fastest with Mercedes third, but 0.5 sec. behind Red Bull and Ferrari. I also think Mercedes will be in trouble in race conditions, as they probably can't get rid of porpoising and over the course of the season - their concept will prove to be wrong.

Completely agree with you guys.

I think the Merc fans are just wishful thinking at this point. That’s at least what I’m reading in the Merc thread. Ferrari was strong right out of the box, and as Al Unser Jr. said about his Penske years ago when they ran the initial tests, cars that are fast out of the box are usually winners. I’ve found after decades of watching/following racing, that cars stable right away and seem to just get on well all though initial testing end up being genuinely fast. That’s certainly not a rule, but a pattern. The Ferrari has seems to be the most consistently fast from the reports I’ve read, the videos I’ve watched, and conversations here on F1 tech. The words about the Ferrari this year remind me of what I’ve read for almost a decade now re Merc. Hoping this all leads to some change at the sharp end.

I think the way Ferrari addressed the rear tire and rear wing and beam wing situation will show to be superior. I remember when Ferrari released the top of the side pod exhaust exit (was it 98?), and this side pod design this year reminds me of that car - I think it was the f300 but my memory may be failing. Wasn’t that a Rory car also?

You are totally right. Periscope exhaust was invented in 1998 on the F300, and it was a Rory Byrne designed car. But even if the F1-75 car looks like there is a lot of Rory Byrne signature, Rory only worked as an adviser and from his home in Phuket on this car and the last car he actually designed was the F2004. So you cannot say this is a Rory Byrne car, even if you can definetely see Rorys influence, i think. I tried to get some more info from Rory about what he did on this car, but he did not comment on that, as his contract does not allow him to talk about that.

[Schippke]

*ahem*

Can this all go in the Team Thread please? Next to none of it has anything to do with the F1-75 itself.

[dialtone]

Some more telemetry comparison of fastest laps in the evening of the test from the big 3.

* Gear Ratios from the Twitter thread were: RBR > Ferrari > Merc.
* Mercedes is the only one to use the 8th gear on the straight to T4, probably due to said gear ratios
* Ferrari opens the DRS 50m later than the others before the finish line
* Ferrari seems to be consistently faster accelerating out of corners
* Ferrari is only one flat out in T7
* Ferrari also seems capable of breaking later in some critical corners like T1, T10 and by a large margin in T13 and T14

It's very impressive to see the acceleration out of slow corners, the engine must be really good, as well as the flat out in T7 must mean the downforce is really good there, but given the decent high speeds it's probably not wing but floor.

It does really seem the F1-75 is a good package of a car.

[nmoleiro]

No one else has to come up with it. I have a mind of my own. I am an engineer. There is a relationship.

Would you care to elaborate? It could be important factor this season.

From a very basic standpoint. The heavier car will run closer to ground and thus the floor will experience choked flow much earlier down the straights.
The floor chokes then the downforce reduces cause the car to lift. But it wont lift back as high or as quickly as it would a lighter car. So it subsequently choke again.
If the car is going really fast this choking cycle is rapid.
In addition the car and suspension combo has a much lower natural frequency when it's heavier. The damping is being provided by the dampers but also the drag force on the car.
Due to the inertia of the heavier car on compression, I am suspecting the oscilations will not settle as quickly as they would a lighter car. The car will be more quick to compress to the ground and choke when its heavier and the damping from drag will have a smaller impact.

This is my thinking anyway. I have not looked into it any deeper than this. But i know the mass is a factor.

Thanks a good line of thought. I’m also engineer here… and seem to struggle to find evidence of cars being higher at end of races or qualy, after all they’re more or less 100kg lighter, more than 10% weight loss thru the race. They should “sit” higher but are they?…
They would have to higher on qualy too to compensate for fuel added for the race, but that would imply losing downforce?…
If they are te same height (more or less) how do they do it?…

[AR3-GP]

Would you care to elaborate? It could be important factor this season.

From a very basic standpoint. The heavier car will run closer to ground and thus the floor will experience choked flow much earlier down the straights.
The floor chokes then the downforce reduces cause the car to lift. But it wont lift back as high or as quickly as it would a lighter car. So it subsequently choke again.
If the car is going really fast this choking cycle is rapid.
In addition the car and suspension combo has a much lower natural frequency when it's heavier. The damping is being provided by the dampers but also the drag force on the car.
Due to the inertia of the heavier car on compression, I am suspecting the oscilations will not settle as quickly as they would a lighter car. The car will be more quick to compress to the ground and choke when its heavier and the damping from drag will have a smaller impact.

This is my thinking anyway. I have not looked into it any deeper than this. But i know the mass is a factor.

Thanks a good line of thought. I’m also engineer here… and seem to struggle to find evidence of cars being higher at end of races or qualy, after all they’re more or less 100kg lighter, more than 10% weight loss thru the race. They should “sit” higher but are they?…
They would have to higher on qualy too to compensate for fuel added for the race, but that would imply losing downforce?…
If they are te same height (more or less) how do they do it?…

The ride height does change but the suspension is very stiff. 100kg is still small compared to a 750kg car and another 750+kg of downforce. If you design a suspension spring that is designed to keep the car suspended above the ground with an aerodynamic downforce that is several times it's own weight at top speed, then you will find that 100kg isn't going to move that suspension very much.

[pantherxxx]

In Maranello the configuration of the mini-sidepods was studied, put in the wind tunnel in a comparison with the side hollowed out in the upper part and the result was noticed to favour a car with more volume than the no-look ones.

Ferrari, therefore, in the first phase of the single-seater development work could take advantage of its sinuous shapes: the partial loss of downforce due to the lifting of the floor from the track to avoid bouncing, seems to be partly compensated by the load and the sidepods are able to produce.

The Maranello engineers, therefore, are confident in a good adaptability of the F1-75 car, in the belief that the double-floor single-seaters are easier to develop, while there are those who argue that the mini-sidepods may have greater chances of development, but require a longer work on the set-up.

The feeling is that in Maranello, although they are still on the third day of testing, they are already working as if this was a Grand Prix weekend: Ferraru is not looking for the times to chase a pole position which is not in the plans even next Saturday, but rather to find the best race pace while understanding the Pirelli tires that will be available.

Ferrari shows sincere behavior: porpoising is well controlled thanks to the adoption of the floor copied from Mclaren and the Brembo system developed on the F1-75 allows the drivers, Charles Laclerc and Carlos Sainz, not to have to deal with the frequent brake locks in the front which deteriorate the tires.

[Vanja #66]

In Maranello the configuration of the mini-sidepods was studied, put in the wind tunnel in a comparison with the side hollowed out in the upper part and the result was noticed to favour a car with more volume than the no-look ones.
...

Is this from a website? If yes, could you forward the link please?