2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[AeroDynamic]

I guess I don't look at it that way and Maybe im wrong for doing so. But the mirror is the mirror, and the wing is the wing. They've designed the sidepod the way they have (fair and legal) and the crash structure has to be on the car, they have put it where its aerodynamically beneficial (which is legal and that's the spirit of the sport) the carbon fibre skin wrapped around the crash structure, should also be aerodynamically beneficial. I think its an example of a team being mad they pulled off something clever and they know they cannot successfully replicate it because it hinges on the extremely efficient cooling (sidepod) solution. Which none of the teams can copy (at least this season)

[LM10]

I'm looking deeper.
I am putting forward that Ferrari's strategy is a compromise. They aren't fighting for the win, they just want to to finish the race and if all is good they pick up a podium.

Possibly if they go lower ride height they will end up in trouble and they aren't taking that risk.

I'm not worried about Ferrari.

Mercedes on the other hand wants to push. They need that extra. They have the pace to contend with RedBull and will take the risk of porpoising.


That is my impression.

Will all cars produce the same amount of downforce for a given ride height? What about the possibility of a car producing the same downforce levels riding higher as another car riding lower?

[dialtone]

Tuesday meeting with FIA technical delegate Tomazsis . Ferrari will file a complaint on Mercedes Spaceship mirrors (Binotto's words)

I wonder where Binotto thinks they belong? the mirror design is fair and legal.

I think they are talking about making the top side impact structure a huge downwash wing. Which is against the spirit of the rule (even thought its legal). Thats their argument

He also specifically said that in 2018 their mirrors were entirely legal too but they were banned because they were against the spirit of the rules. So he believes that if that's how it worked in 2018 it should be the same now.

[dans79]

I wonder where Binotto thinks they belong? the mirror design is fair and legal.

I think they are talking about making the top side impact structure a huge downwash wing. Which is against the spirit of the rule (even thought its legal). Thats their argument

He also specifically said that in 2018 their mirrors were entirely legal too but they were banned because they were against the spirit of the rules. So he believes that if that's how it worked in 2018 it should be the same now.

If memory serves, the 2018 Ferrari mirrors were "illegal" for a completely different reason!

[shamyakovic]

I think they are talking about making the top side impact structure a huge downwash wing. Which is against the spirit of the rule (even thought its legal). Thats their argument

He also specifically said that in 2018 their mirrors were entirely legal too but they were banned because they were against the spirit of the rules. So he believes that if that's how it worked in 2018 it should be the same now.

If memory serves, the 2018 Ferrari mirrors were "illegal" for a completely different reason!

That wing above the mirror was the one which was banned'

The actual wing was used until the last GP without the wing element on the mirror.

[dialtone]

I think they are talking about making the top side impact structure a huge downwash wing. Which is against the spirit of the rule (even thought its legal). Thats their argument

He also specifically said that in 2018 their mirrors were entirely legal too but they were banned because they were against the spirit of the rules. So he believes that if that's how it worked in 2018 it should be the same now.

If memory serves, the 2018 Ferrari mirrors were "illegal" for a completely different reason!

That's easy to verify: https://www.racefans.net/2018/05/14/fia ... be-banned/

“There’s a liberal interpretation of the word ‘mounting’,” said Whiting. “That’s how they’ve become legal because there’s no bodywork allowed in the area.
“The interpretation hinges on whether we think that’s a mounting or not. We somehow think not, so we’re going to take some action on that.”

Whiting said the team had exploited a grey area in the rules with its design, which was why they’d been allowed to run it at the Spanish Grand Prix.

“If it was a clear breach of the regulations they wouldn’t have been allowed to use it here. But we’ll clarify that to everybody.”

If the team runs the same design in Monaco “we’ll probably go and see the stewards about it,” said Whiting. “But I think the TD [technical directive] will make it clear.”

The FIA had previously confirmed teams are allowed to mount mirrors on the Halo.

“We sent a TD a few weeks ago in response to a number of questions from other teams about whether the principle of mounting the mirror on the Halo was acceptable. We answered yes, it was, and we gave a few stipulations, one that it has to be a mounting.”

The design of Ferrari’s mounting doesn’t fit with the FIA’s intended interpretation of the directive. “It’s just a matter of interpretation,” said Whiting. “We feel that something that is such a tenuous interpretation is not something that we’re happy with.”

However Sebastian Vettel said the team’s reason for mounting the mirrors on the Halo was not primarily aimed at gaining a performance advantage.

“For us it’s straightforward – I see better.” said Vettel. “That was the point of moving them. We asked already in the beginning of the year if we can put them on the Halo because then they would just be in a better position to see what’s going on behind.”

But Whiting believes the design used by Ferrari in Spain was also aimed at making the car quicker. “I doubt they would be there if there wasn’t a measurable aero advantage,” he said. “These days, that doesn’t have to be big.”

So yeah, it's was legal, everyone recognized that it was about interpretation of the rule, FIA initially even approved teams putting mirrors there, but FIA later and Whiting decided that it was about gaining performance and thus banned it.

I don't know how much more spirit of the rules than this it gets.

[shamyakovic]

He also specifically said that in 2018 their mirrors were entirely legal too but they were banned because they were against the spirit of the rules. So he believes that if that's how it worked in 2018 it should be the same now.

If memory serves, the 2018 Ferrari mirrors were "illegal" for a completely different reason!

That's easy to verify: https://www.racefans.net/2018/05/14/fia ... be-banned/

“There’s a liberal interpretation of the word ‘mounting’,” said Whiting. “That’s how they’ve become legal because there’s no bodywork allowed in the area.
“The interpretation hinges on whether we think that’s a mounting or not. We somehow think not, so we’re going to take some action on that.”

Whiting said the team had exploited a grey area in the rules with its design, which was why they’d been allowed to run it at the Spanish Grand Prix.

“If it was a clear breach of the regulations they wouldn’t have been allowed to use it here. But we’ll clarify that to everybody.”

If the team runs the same design in Monaco “we’ll probably go and see the stewards about it,” said Whiting. “But I think the TD [technical directive] will make it clear.”

The FIA had previously confirmed teams are allowed to mount mirrors on the Halo.

“We sent a TD a few weeks ago in response to a number of questions from other teams about whether the principle of mounting the mirror on the Halo was acceptable. We answered yes, it was, and we gave a few stipulations, one that it has to be a mounting.”

The design of Ferrari’s mounting doesn’t fit with the FIA’s intended interpretation of the directive. “It’s just a matter of interpretation,” said Whiting. “We feel that something that is such a tenuous interpretation is not something that we’re happy with.”

However Sebastian Vettel said the team’s reason for mounting the mirrors on the Halo was not primarily aimed at gaining a performance advantage.

“For us it’s straightforward – I see better.” said Vettel. “That was the point of moving them. We asked already in the beginning of the year if we can put them on the Halo because then they would just be in a better position to see what’s going on behind.”

But Whiting believes the design used by Ferrari in Spain was also aimed at making the car quicker. “I doubt they would be there if there wasn’t a measurable aero advantage,” he said. “These days, that doesn’t have to be big.”

So yeah, it's was legal, everyone recognized that it was about interpretation of the rule, FIA initially even approved teams putting mirrors there, but FIA later and Whiting decided that it was about gaining performance and thus banned it.

I don't know how much more spirit of the rules than this it gets.

Again you are confusing it, the actual halo mounted mirror is legal and as my photos above show they raced with that until the last race in 2018.... Its the wing above the mirror which was banned.

This one'


Whiting is talking about the wing above the mirror here... they think its not a mirror mount and is in a place where body parts are not allowed. This is why that mirror wing was banned however the halo mirror was retained

[PlatinumZealot]

The spirit ofthe rules is to reduce the wake of the car. There is no issues with having wing-like elements on the side pod becauae everyone's side pod has wing-like element on it. Just that Mercedes own is bigger!

[PlatinumZealot]

I'm looking deeper.
I am putting forward that Ferrari's strategy is a compromise. They aren't fighting for the win, they just want to to finish the race and if all is good they pick up a podium.

Possibly if they go lower ride height they will end up in trouble and they aren't taking that risk.

I'm not worried about Ferrari.

Mercedes on the other hand wants to push. They need that extra. They have the pace to contend with RedBull and will take the risk of porpoising.


That is my impression.

Will all cars produce the same amount of downforce for a given ride height? What about the possibility of a car producing the same downforce levels riding higher as another car riding lower?

I believe thats a very slim possibility. I strongly beleieve Ferrari simply playing it safe and they will not be a threat to pole position. They will do well to podium.

[dialtone]

Whiting is talking about the wing above the mirror here... they think its not a mirror mount and is in a place where body parts are not allowed. This is why that mirror wing was banned however the halo mirror was retained

Yes, I understand that part, but the same can be said about the small winglets below the mirror in the W13, they aren't a mountpoint for the mirror and during their rules discussion Binotto had the impression that the fundamental idea was to clean up the cars aero surfaces to avoid disturbing the car behind. As Binotto says, they would want to avoid every team coming up with complex mirror designs. His complaint doesn't have much to do with whether they are good or bad for the car or even easy or hard to copy, just with the incentive it creates.

Along these lines I think it the same as how they banned the Ferrari mirrors, but hey, it's not for me to decide at the end of the day.

[dans79]

Whiting is talking about the wing above the mirror here... they think its not a mirror mount and is in a place where body parts are not allowed. This is why that mirror wing was banned however the halo mirror was retained

Yes, I understand that part, but the same can be said about the small winglets below the mirror in the W13, they aren't a mountpoint for the mirror and during their rules discussion Binotto had the impression that the fundamental idea was to clean up the cars aero surfaces to avoid disturbing the car behind. As Binotto says, they would want to avoid every team coming up with complex mirror designs. His complaint doesn't have much to do with whether they are good or bad for the car or even easy or hard to copy, just with the incentive it creates.

Along these lines I think it the same as how they banned the Ferrari mirrors, but hey, it's not for me to decide at the end of the day.

Merc isn't the only car with those little winglets.

[dialtone]

Whiting is talking about the wing above the mirror here... they think its not a mirror mount and is in a place where body parts are not allowed. This is why that mirror wing was banned however the halo mirror was retained

Yes, I understand that part, but the same can be said about the small winglets below the mirror in the W13, they aren't a mountpoint for the mirror and during their rules discussion Binotto had the impression that the fundamental idea was to clean up the cars aero surfaces to avoid disturbing the car behind. As Binotto says, they would want to avoid every team coming up with complex mirror designs. His complaint doesn't have much to do with whether they are good or bad for the car or even easy or hard to copy, just with the incentive it creates.

Along these lines I think it the same as how they banned the Ferrari mirrors, but hey, it's not for me to decide at the end of the day.

Merc isn't the only car with those little winglets.

Yep I agree. IMHO I doubt they are critical to the performance of any of the cars that use them, they provide some aero advantage and, if they are approved, every car will grow complex mirrors. That's just about how I see it.

[Marty_Y]

The final day of pre-season testing for 2022 saw the team complete its most laps so far in Bahrain with Lewis running a race simulation in the morning and George focusing on a single lap programme in the afternoon. The team experimented with a range of set up configurations to better understand the bouncing issues affecting this generation of cars and harvest data which will be worked on over the coming days as the team tries to unlock the true performance of the W13.

The team will be back on track in Bahrain in six days’ time for FP1 as we enter the first race weekend of the 2022 F1 season.

Lewis Hamilton:
We have some hurdles to overcome and obviously next week we'll get a much better showing of our pace. I'm sure everyone can figure out that we are not the quickest at the moment. There is potential within our car to get us there but we've just got to learn to be able to extract it and fix some of the problems, which is what we're working flat-out on. I think everyone struggled out on this bumpy track and we come out of testing knowing that we still have a lot of work to do. There's a confidence within the team that we can always work through whatever problem we're facing and that’s what we’ll do. I have all the faith in the men and women back at the factories to get on top of our issues. One thing is for certain, we’ll be bringing our fighting spirit to the first race next weekend!

George Russell:
It’s been a productive few days and very intriguing at the same time, with so much to learn about these 2022 cars and tyres. We got through our programme with few reliability issues so great from that perspective. We were trying to get every last bit of performance out of the car and push the limits and when you’re doing that, you’re bouncing around a lot! It’s not the most comfortable but I don’t really care about comfort as long as the performance is there. At the moment, we seem a step behind our rivals and we have a lot of work to do between now and next week to better understand the car. There’s a lot of potential in the W13 and I believe our guys are going to get to the bottom of it, we just need to find a way to unlock our performance. The bouncing is affecting our ability to put the car in the right window and the team are working incredibly hard to find solutions for this. This is a long game and I do believe our performance is there, we’ve just got to find it.

Andrew Shovlin
We’ve had a busy day here but that’s always the case on the last day of testing. The programme was similar to yesterday but with Lewis doing the race work in the morning and George doing lower fuel and softer tyres in the afternoon. Both sessions have been quite instructive, we’ve made a bit of progress with the bouncing which in turn has made the car less of a handful on the limit and it also feels like we’ve made a step in the right direction with setup today. There’s still a lot of pace to come if we can make further gains on the bouncing and get the car more settled. We’ve got a lot of good data so hopefully we can gain a bit more understanding of the issues in the next few days.

From a reliability point of view, the chassis and power unit have run without issue which is encouraging to see and testament to a lot of good work in Brackley and Brixworth. Judging the car from a performance point of view is less easy, we struggled to get the first laps out of the harder tyres but on softer rubber it’s coming more easily and we look to be in better shape. It feels like we need to find a bit of pace if we want to be fighting for the win at the first race but we’re learning and developing at a good rate so we’ll just focus on those aspects and see where we stand in seven days’ time.

[Henri]

The final day of pre-season testing for 2022 saw the team complete its most laps so far in Bahrain with Lewis running a race simulation in the morning and George focusing on a single lap programme in the afternoon. The team experimented with a range of set up configurations to better understand the bouncing issues affecting this generation of cars and harvest data which will be worked on over the coming days as the team tries to unlock the true performance of the W13.

The team will be back on track in Bahrain in six days’ time for FP1 as we enter the first race weekend of the 2022 F1 season.

Lewis Hamilton:
We have some hurdles to overcome and obviously next week we'll get a much better showing of our pace. I'm sure everyone can figure out that we are not the quickest at the moment. There is potential within our car to get us there but we've just got to learn to be able to extract it and fix some of the problems, which is what we're working flat-out on. I think everyone struggled out on this bumpy track and we come out of testing knowing that we still have a lot of work to do. There's a confidence within the team that we can always work through whatever problem we're facing and that’s what we’ll do. I have all the faith in the men and women back at the factories to get on top of our issues. One thing is for certain, we’ll be bringing our fighting spirit to the first race next weekend!

George Russell:
It’s been a productive few days and very intriguing at the same time, with so much to learn about these 2022 cars and tyres. We got through our programme with few reliability issues so great from that perspective. We were trying to get every last bit of performance out of the car and push the limits and when you’re doing that, you’re bouncing around a lot! It’s not the most comfortable but I don’t really care about comfort as long as the performance is there. At the moment, we seem a step behind our rivals and we have a lot of work to do between now and next week to better understand the car. There’s a lot of potential in the W13 and I believe our guys are going to get to the bottom of it, we just need to find a way to unlock our performance. The bouncing is affecting our ability to put the car in the right window and the team are working incredibly hard to find solutions for this. This is a long game and I do believe our performance is there, we’ve just got to find it.

Andrew Shovlin
We’ve had a busy day here but that’s always the case on the last day of testing. The programme was similar to yesterday but with Lewis doing the race work in the morning and George doing lower fuel and softer tyres in the afternoon. Both sessions have been quite instructive, we’ve made a bit of progress with the bouncing which in turn has made the car less of a handful on the limit and it also feels like we’ve made a step in the right direction with setup today. There’s still a lot of pace to come if we can make further gains on the bouncing and get the car more settled. We’ve got a lot of good data so hopefully we can gain a bit more understanding of the issues in the next few days.

From a reliability point of view, the chassis and power unit have run without issue which is encouraging to see and testament to a lot of good work in Brackley and Brixworth. Judging the car from a performance point of view is less easy, we struggled to get the first laps out of the harder tyres but on softer rubber it’s coming more easily and we look to be in better shape. It feels like we need to find a bit of pace if we want to be fighting for the win at the first race but we’re learning and developing at a good rate so we’ll just focus on those aspects and see where we stand in seven days’ time.

Its good shovlin is saying they have pace to come

[AR3-GP]

The ban on aero mirrors is a needless bit of pedantry under a budget cap formula. It's not going to cause a spending war. Let them.