Mercedes W13

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NicoS
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Joined: 11 Feb 2022, 17:21

Re: Mercedes W13

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PlatinumZealot wrote:
13 Mar 2022, 15:28
I agree that we haven't seen the proper floor for this car yet. If they spotted the problem 2 weeks ago, they will be taking their time to carefully produce the solution for the race.

Look out in FP1 for the new floor.
Ok. We will.

LM10
LM10
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Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 00:07

Re: Mercedes W13

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basti313 wrote:
12 Mar 2022, 21:07
Next week...still I fear we will see nothing different than 2014....we may never see the real power of the 2022 engine in Q.
Because...?

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RZS10
359
Joined: 07 Dec 2013, 01:23

Re: Mercedes W13

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MOD EDIT: Removal of deleted posts references
[My edit: removal of further references to now deleted posts.
Context here was that the proportions of the car had changed and the question why there was no top down image of the Bahrain spec yet]


Mercedes themselves haven't posted any image from the top apart from the render afaik, they have no influence with regards to what any photographer does, so the only logical conlusion is that there simply isn't any photograph available.
[...]
Image
Last edited by RZS10 on 13 Mar 2022, 21:07, edited 4 times in total.

shamyakovic
shamyakovic
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Joined: 26 Dec 2013, 22:40

Re: Mercedes W13

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shamyakovic wrote:
13 Mar 2022, 15:17
Stu wrote:
13 Mar 2022, 15:11
shamyakovic wrote:
13 Mar 2022, 13:36

True, I was surprised to see the floor stay there for second test in a row... and also they have a very basic floor. I guess a new floor will solve most issues.
I am guessing they had a production issue or they made went the wrong direction with the floor and are now awaiting for new floor
The floor stay for the second test looked far less improvised than the one that appeared at the first test.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/105970/f ... cedes.html

It looks like the FIA allowed the stay which can be used legally used.
Mercedes thinking it will not be useful

For Mercedes, this is not the case. At the German team, there are doubts about the FIA's solution. An engineer from the team spoke to AMuS: '' Sometimes it helps, but sometimes it doesn't.'' This is also evident with the W13 still bouncing hard over the track.
I have a tin foil idea :mrgreen:

Are Mercedes exaggerating their bouncing issues to convince the FIA (we know there is a meeting on this tuesday to confirm the weight issues and bouncing issues) to allow packers, dampers in the suspension again?
I could be wrong, but its a possibility :D

LM10
LM10
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Joined: 07 Mar 2018, 00:07

Re: Mercedes W13

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shamyakovic wrote:
13 Mar 2022, 16:22
shamyakovic wrote:
13 Mar 2022, 15:17
Stu wrote:
13 Mar 2022, 15:11


The floor stay for the second test looked far less improvised than the one that appeared at the first test.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/105970/f ... cedes.html

It looks like the FIA allowed the stay which can be used legally used.
Mercedes thinking it will not be useful

For Mercedes, this is not the case. At the German team, there are doubts about the FIA's solution. An engineer from the team spoke to AMuS: '' Sometimes it helps, but sometimes it doesn't.'' This is also evident with the W13 still bouncing hard over the track.
I have a tin foil idea :mrgreen:

Are Mercedes exaggerating their bouncing issues to convince the FIA (we know there is a meeting on this tuesday to confirm the weight issues and bouncing issues) to allow packers, dampers in the suspension again?
I could be wrong, but its a possibility :D
As 8 (or 9?) of 10 teams need to accept a probable rule change, I doubt that would happen.
Last edited by LM10 on 13 Mar 2022, 16:33, edited 2 times in total.

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chrisc90
41
Joined: 23 Feb 2022, 21:22

Re: Mercedes W13

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shamyakovic wrote:
13 Mar 2022, 16:22
shamyakovic wrote:
13 Mar 2022, 15:17
Stu wrote:
13 Mar 2022, 15:11


The floor stay for the second test looked far less improvised than the one that appeared at the first test.
https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/105970/f ... cedes.html

It looks like the FIA allowed the stay which can be used legally used.
Mercedes thinking it will not be useful

For Mercedes, this is not the case. At the German team, there are doubts about the FIA's solution. An engineer from the team spoke to AMuS: '' Sometimes it helps, but sometimes it doesn't.'' This is also evident with the W13 still bouncing hard over the track.
I have a tin foil idea :mrgreen:

Are Mercedes exaggerating their bouncing issues to convince the FIA (we know there is a meeting on this tuesday to confirm the weight issues and bouncing issues) to allow packers, dampers in the suspension again?
I could be wrong, but its a possibility :D
I think that idea would be very quickly shot down by teams who have managed to make a car that doesn't bounce along the road. If a few teams can do it, then there's no reason for those teams who cant do it to improve ideas to make their car not bounce. I think it wouldnt be very good to change the rules because one team cant make a car that doesnt bounce, whilst others can.
Mess with the Bull - you get the horns.

shamyakovic
shamyakovic
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Joined: 26 Dec 2013, 22:40

Re: Mercedes W13

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LM10 wrote:
13 Mar 2022, 16:28
shamyakovic wrote:
13 Mar 2022, 16:22
shamyakovic wrote:
13 Mar 2022, 15:17


https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/105970/f ... cedes.html

It looks like the FIA allowed the stay which can be used legally used.
Mercedes thinking it will not be useful

For Mercedes, this is not the case. At the German team, there are doubts about the FIA's solution. An engineer from the team spoke to AMuS: '' Sometimes it helps, but sometimes it doesn't.'' This is also evident with the W13 still bouncing hard over the track.
I have a tin foil idea :mrgreen:

Are Mercedes exaggerating their bouncing issues to convince the FIA (we know there is a meeting on this tuesday to confirm the weight issues and bouncing issues) to allow packers, dampers in the suspension again?
I could be wrong, but its a possibility :D
As 8 (or 9?) of 10 teams need to accept a probable rule change, I doubt that would happen.
Yes its 8 /10
It could all be a give or take kind of situation.
They can argue as Merc doesn't seem to suffer with weight issues, so if others want the weight increased then merc want dampers back! Otherwise merc teams wont wont for the weight increase :lol: its just some tin foil time :lol:
Last edited by shamyakovic on 13 Mar 2022, 17:03, edited 1 time in total.

holeindalip
holeindalip
17
Joined: 11 Jun 2013, 01:58
Location: Decatur,IL USA

Re: Mercedes W13

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Yes, the hot air cannons got increased with the new sidepods, in one of the hottest races(testing I might add). So what happens when they go to cooler tracks? I’m assuming they will have a smaller engine cover will smaller cannons and/or the gills closed off…

El_KaPpa
El_KaPpa
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Joined: 20 Feb 2013, 14:33

Re: Mercedes W13

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I read an article where they said that Merc are really sandbagging: "The Silver Arrows have sat mid-leaderboard throughout testing, onboard footage of the W13 does show however both drivers avoiding eighth gear at times, resulting in a significantly lower top speed compared to their rivals. The W13 will be fully unleashed next weekend at the first Grand Prix of the season, only then will the paddock understand where Mercedes are in comparison to the other teams. Mercedes have gathered plenty of data across the three day test, the W13 is proving to be impeccably reliable."
Of course I struggle. I just don’t quit.

smilodon
smilodon
0
Joined: 10 Mar 2022, 21:24

Re: Mercedes W13

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I have a question.
Imagine if Mercedes wants the left side of their car with zeropod and the right side with the old one.... I know it wouldn't work, but there's my question...

Is it allowed to make an asymmetric car or they have to make the left and the right side with the same layout?

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Vyssion
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Joined: 10 Jun 2012, 14:40

Re: Mercedes W13

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Alright...
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Back on topic.
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NicoS
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Joined: 11 Feb 2022, 17:21

Re: Mercedes W13

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Comparing launch spec W13 to current version...
appears that a many components have been moved higher.
Launch spec quite slim
Image

current spec: area under air intake occupies a lot more volume.
Image
Image

Curiously not many images available for direct comparison.

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ringo
230
Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: Mercedes W13

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AeroDynamic wrote:
13 Mar 2022, 10:55
I'm not sure if its just good downforce. It might be weight as well. Does anyone have an order of cars by wheel base length? I've been curious to learn where the cars are different in that aspect.

The Mercedes has lived up to its recent trend of concept: efficiency and low drag over downforce. The concept is extreme and the downforce performance hinges on that floor maybe even more than the other cars with the bulk-sidepods. So, the fact that their unresolved porpoising is in their way from really activating the peak potential of that car concept is not surprising. The more the raise the ride height, perhaps the greater the ratio of downforce loss there is on their car because its even more sensitive and dependent on this than the others?

If they sort out the porpoising (and I have no doubt they will) I won't be surprised if that car supersedes the rest with margin.

https://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/G ... 880386.jpg
I agree. The other cars may have a larger % of their downforce coming from wings and beam wing. W13 may have gambled all their chips on the floor.
For Sure!!

holeindalip
holeindalip
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Joined: 11 Jun 2013, 01:58
Location: Decatur,IL USA

Re: Mercedes W13

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NicoS wrote:
13 Mar 2022, 21:10
Comparing launch spec W13 to current version...
appears that a many components have been moved higher.
Launch spec quite slim
https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/mgl ... -w13-1.jpg

current spec: area under air intake occupies a lot more volume.
https://d3cm515ijfiu6w.cloudfront.net/w ... anetf1.jpg
https://static.motor.es/fotos-noticias/ ... 7556_2.jpg

Curiously not many images available for direct comparison.
No components have been moved, they just opened the space up for the hot air cannons, post pictures of the internals that shows components have been moved.

dialtone
dialtone
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Joined: 25 Feb 2019, 01:31

Re: Mercedes W13

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ringo wrote:
13 Mar 2022, 21:19
AeroDynamic wrote:
13 Mar 2022, 10:55
I'm not sure if its just good downforce. It might be weight as well. Does anyone have an order of cars by wheel base length? I've been curious to learn where the cars are different in that aspect.

The Mercedes has lived up to its recent trend of concept: efficiency and low drag over downforce. The concept is extreme and the downforce performance hinges on that floor maybe even more than the other cars with the bulk-sidepods. So, the fact that their unresolved porpoising is in their way from really activating the peak potential of that car concept is not surprising. The more the raise the ride height, perhaps the greater the ratio of downforce loss there is on their car because its even more sensitive and dependent on this than the others?

If they sort out the porpoising (and I have no doubt they will) I won't be surprised if that car supersedes the rest with margin.

https://imgr1.auto-motor-und-sport.de/G ... 880386.jpg
I agree. The other cars may have a larger % of their downforce coming from wings and beam wing. W13 may have gambled all their chips on the floor.
Sorry but... do you have some pointers for this conclusion?

Image

From this picture F1-75 has both less front wing and less rear wing than the W13.

Image

RB-18 has perhaps somewhat slightly more rear wing, although primarily behind the centerline cooling which is less used, and less front wing.

But as a comment overall I'm not sure what benefit would be being more floor or more wing, it's a balance, on slow corners the floor will not help much, while the wings will get in the way on a straight. Any way to allocate the downforce is going to come down to a compromise with how they have other areas in the car setup like suspensions.