2022 Bahrain Grand Prix - Sakhir, March 18 - 20

[Big Tea]

I think a driver should mainly distinguish itself by driving.


I don't agree. It's more like the propaganda that that they're feeding us, so teams could enhance their own light. There's only one person sitting in the car.

I think should be codified in the rules actually. With the FIA not recognizing or allowing teams on track. To team orders or any crosstalk. Each driver races to achieve the best position. The team just develops the car and submits two independent competitors. They should even examine and sign racing contracts before allowing a driver to race to avoid breaking the rules and dedicated second drivers.

They have tried not giving any hints to drivers in 2016 and it wasn't better. You wouldn't feel like it's better racing if a driver is spending 4 laps trying to recall what is the right button to press while they are having engine issues.

Exactly. The only way you could do this today would be to go back to the cars of the 1980s where there was just a seat, a steering wheel, three pedals and a gear selector. Perhaps that's the real issue here - these people just want to go back to "the good old days".

In the good old days, the mechanic road onboard with the driver to do the tweeks.

[dans79]

The only way you could do this today would be to go back to the cars of the 1980s where there was just a seat, a steering wheel, three pedals and a gear selector. Perhaps that's the real issue here - these people just want to go back to "the good old days".

If memory serves, even back then didn't the driver have dials and what not to adjust the fuel mixture and boost?

[dans79]

Also there's no reason for the driver to be able to change so many things

If you ever get the chance to watch some real cockpit combat footage, you will find the best pilots are the ones who can manage all the little details! F1 is no different, it's about managing all the details.

[silver]

Ah. Give it a break guys. It's OK to wish what one wants to see without killing each other with keyboard.

[mzso]

So you think "driving" is just turning the steering wheel and pushing the two pedals?

How about we get rid of the semi-auto gearboxes too and go back to having a clutch pedal and manual selector?

Making use of every tool available to them is driver's job. Managing deployment is no different to managing brake balance - that's something that has been done for many, many years. Or should brake balance adjustments also be banned?

It's certainly not about following a chart printed out via computer simulation.
I wasn't against managing deployment, but they should do it on their own.
I see no particular reason for the driver to change brake balance at all.

How do you gather that they were helping Leclerc (or for the matter Verstappen with all the notes about brake temperature and having 1 attempt) via simulations?

Setting up a simulation requires more information and time than what was available in half a lap. Ferrari wall saw the SOC issues in LEC's car, told him to go from SOC5 to SOC8 to increase energy recovery and went all the way up to 10 (max energy recovery setting) and allowed him use of K-1 (further aggressive deployment mapping which LEC didn't use). If you think you need a simulation to do the above, you probably are not giving much credit to how smart the people on the wall are. If all was simulation based then nobody would ever make strategy errors in race.

I didn't claim that. But it's no secret that they're running simulations in the background, off-site even.
But I don't think the race engineer making decisions instead of the driver is good either.

[SmallSoldier]

It's certainly not about following a chart printed out via computer simulation.
I wasn't against managing deployment, but they should do it on their own.
I see no particular reason for the driver to change brake balance at all.

How do you gather that they were helping Leclerc (or for the matter Verstappen with all the notes about brake temperature and having 1 attempt) via simulations?

Setting up a simulation requires more information and time than what was available in half a lap. Ferrari wall saw the SOC issues in LEC's car, told him to go from SOC5 to SOC8 to increase energy recovery and went all the way up to 10 (max energy recovery setting) and allowed him use of K-1 (further aggressive deployment mapping which LEC didn't use). If you think you need a simulation to do the above, you probably are not giving much credit to how smart the people on the wall are. If all was simulation based then nobody would ever make strategy errors in race.

I didn't claim that. But it's no secret that they're running simulations in the background, off-site even.
But I don't think the race engineer making decisions instead of the driver is good either.

The amount of information the drivers would need to have available to them in order to make those decisions is what drives the need for constant feedback / information from the wall.

It would be impossible for them to access to every parameter on these cars to make judgements in regards to which settings to use to avoid in most instances, catastrophic failure… They are not in a video game, the wrong setting at the wrong time means a potential DNF.

For the cars to be as fast as they are, they have to run on the limit of most parameters, whether is temperature (engine, brakes, etc), batteries (charge and deployment), fuel consumption, etc… There are effectively an small army of people analyzing this information in real time in order to be able to tell the driver what the optimum or right setting is… Those wouldn’t be decisions the drivers could make on their own.

Limiting / eliminating feedback from the pit wall would end up in cars that are way slower than the current ones (since they wouldn’t be able to drive on the limit) and way less reliable than the current ones… I don’t think that is what F1 wants (and maybe some fans like myself).

[Dee]

https://www.racefans.net/2022/03/22/i-d ... ahrain-gp/

[dans79]

https://www.racefans.net/2022/03/22/i-d ... ahrain-gp/

Not a happy camper!

[Just_a_fan]

I see no particular reason for the driver to change brake balance at all.

It's a tool for changing the way the car handles. Again it's a tool in the skilled driver's toolbox.

[Dee]

https://www.racefans.net/2022/03/22/i-d ... ahrain-gp/

Not a happy camper!

Not al all, but don't think anyone would be with all that going on

For anyone that thought Max didn't think about that turn 4 move;

"Lambiase: Max, the overtake to four is available as well.

Verstappen: Yeah but mate I can’t stay close through turn one."

[dialtone]

Old stuff here but still... Playing around with my FastF1 scripts to get more and better data out of laps and I've now managed to add something interesting:



My new script uses car telemetry to identify the corners, so it only picks up corners in which at least one driver wasn't full throttle. At which point I merge the full corner distance on track and can use that space to calculate not just min speed but also average speed, the data in the boxes is in kmh differences. I need to work on a better way to display the data, but automatically displaying boxes without overlaps and making them nice is itself a hard problem, especially when I can't figure out how to remove the black borders from the boxes.

Anyway this above is the quali lap from the big 3:
* T1-2-3: Merc is clearly faster there, by quite a margin in average speed although min speed is the same for everyone.
* T6-7: as mentioned already before, Ferrari is quite a bit ahead both in minimum speed and in average speed through those corners.
* T9-10: While Ferrari reaches lower min speed, the average speed through the corner is actually much faster by a very significant margin
* T13-15: Similar story, even though min speed is close, Ferrari has much higher average speed through the corner, especially compared to Merc.

[wogx]

Forza Ferrari!

[.poz]

Just remove MGUH MGUK battery, cables etc

A V6 with variable valve timing and a twin variable-geometry turbo with refuelling during pit stops

That’s an F2/Indycar engine or similar. Makes 600bph, weighs 150kg. Uses lots and lots of gas.

Indycar engine are 2.2 liter, with 1200 rpm limit by rules and 1300 mbar (more in qualify and push-to pass) turbo pressure; actual F1 ICE have more or less the same power wit 0,6 liter less...

The actual ICE, without fuel flow limitation, can exceed 1500bph
yes, racing turbo charged engines usually uses a lot of gas because they use a very rich fuel/air mix for cooling

but

the actual ICE are designed to run poor fuel/air mix so probably a compromise can be found
what about water injection ?

[mzso]

How do you gather that they were helping Leclerc (or for the matter Verstappen with all the notes about brake temperature and having 1 attempt) via simulations?

Setting up a simulation requires more information and time than what was available in half a lap. Ferrari wall saw the SOC issues in LEC's car, told him to go from SOC5 to SOC8 to increase energy recovery and went all the way up to 10 (max energy recovery setting) and allowed him use of K-1 (further aggressive deployment mapping which LEC didn't use). If you think you need a simulation to do the above, you probably are not giving much credit to how smart the people on the wall are. If all was simulation based then nobody would ever make strategy errors in race.

I didn't claim that. But it's no secret that they're running simulations in the background, off-site even.
But I don't think the race engineer making decisions instead of the driver is good either.

The amount of information the drivers would need to have available to them in order to make those decisions is what drives the need for constant feedback / information from the wall.

It would be impossible for them to access to every parameter on these cars to make judgements in regards to which settings to use to avoid in most instances, catastrophic failure… They are not in a video game, the wrong setting at the wrong time means a potential DNF.

For the cars to be as fast as they are, they have to run on the limit of most parameters, whether is temperature (engine, brakes, etc), batteries (charge and deployment), fuel consumption, etc… There are effectively an small army of people analyzing this information in real time in order to be able to tell the driver what the optimum or right setting is… Those wouldn’t be decisions the drivers could make on their own.

Limiting / eliminating feedback from the pit wall would end up in cars that are way slower than the current ones (since they wouldn’t be able to drive on the limit) and way less reliable than the current ones… I don’t think that is what F1 wants (and maybe some fans like myself).

Your over-mystifying things. The don't need to be bombarded by information, or have acess to a crazy amount of settings. Leave the drivers a few preset buttons, maybe a knob or two. And they will drive on feel and common sense. Which used to be part of a dirver's skillset. And of course the indications of the car itself. (temperature warnings, fuel level and whatever) There's no reason for them to know anything about the tires or pit stops of others.

That small army is just a money sink, that does not add to racing.

[mzso]

I see no particular reason for the driver to change brake balance at all.

It's a tool for changing the way the car handles. Again it's a tool in the skilled driver's toolbox.

It's something all of them change automatically like human robots. It distinguishes non of them, but takes away some attention that might be better used.
Might as well make it automatic.