McLaren MCL36

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
Motörhead
Motörhead
3
Joined: 24 Feb 2017, 20:15

Re: McLaren MCL36

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KingHamilton01 wrote:
21 Mar 2022, 10:22
DiogoBrand wrote:
21 Mar 2022, 03:48
KingHamilton01 wrote:
20 Mar 2022, 15:11
That was a very insightful reply, I never suggested that having an undercut in there sidepod was necassarily the way to go, if you actually read what I wrote then you would realise I put that as an example. Honestly why is there so much hostility in this forum? You could have just put your opinion instead of swearing and suggesting I am just looking at the car and saying they should copy another one? or eye aero as you put it.

I would suggest in future if you don't have anything constructive to reply then don't bother, didn't realise you were the resident expert around here, but please don't reply trying to be little me.
I'm sorry, what?
He basically just constructively countered your argument without attacking you in any way, and you reply saying he was hostile and tried to belittle you in some way?

There is absolutely no evidence to us, without seeing any data, that McLaren's sidepods are problematic. We know they've definitely have an issue with brake cooling, which may or may not have an impact on the rest of the car's aero. We may speculate that Mercedes' Power Unit isn't top notch this year, since the worst 6 cars used Merc PUs, and even Mercedes themselves wasn't as fast as expected. There's the fact that McLaren is the only team to route the air from above the tea tray around the sidepods and so on and so forth.

There is also the fact that between the top 3 teams we have different power units and completely different sidepod philosophies, including the fact that the fastest team of the weekend has even bulkier sidepods than McLaren in terms of frontal area.

So randomly arguing about what concept the team could revolutionize after the first race weekend, even before they've fixed their big known issues, is not very constructive and you can expect that people won't agree with you if you do so.
1st You clearly didn’t read what I had written originally judging from your reply to me. It wasn’t an argument, I put my opinion across and suggested it was an example. He then proceeded to suggest I can’t make an type of suggestion by eye aero. Also on top of that swearing within his own reply, but no he wasn’t being aggressive? And if you class swearing as being constructive then good luck to you on that one.

Why do you have to weigh on it anyway, he can speak for himself and has already done so.
You then come in saying I was arguing about sidepod concept when I wasn’t, I stated my opinion. Of course people don’t have to agree with each other on here but you are wrong with your reply. Trying to suggest I am saying to revolutionise sidepod concept and then say it’s not very constructive. There have been plenty of sensible replies to what I put on here, but thanks for showing me you aren’t someone to engage with on here also.

Better still maybe the moderator’s should have a look at how members are participating in replying to people here….? Is this acceptable behaviour?
Personally, I was very surprised by your over reaction.
No one was swearing at you.
Honestly, I think you’ve got this one wrong mate.

SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
479
Joined: 10 Mar 2019, 03:54

Re: McLaren MCL36

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A.J.O wrote:
21 Mar 2022, 20:08
Any chance Jeddah's brake requirements will allow Mclaren to run the Barcelona brake duct spec?

I seem to remember them going on at Barcelona about how everything was correlating nicely. It would be very nice to see them be able to run in the intended configuration. It would give us fans a real idea of how far off the rails they really are.
Doubtful… Even though the Jeddah track may require less from the brakes, temperatures will be similar to Bahrain, it’s very unlikely that they will be able to use the brake solution that they used in Spain.

CIZUK
CIZUK
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Joined: 12 Jan 2022, 12:55

Re: McLaren MCL36

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SmallSoldier wrote:
21 Mar 2022, 21:23
A.J.O wrote:
21 Mar 2022, 20:08
Any chance Jeddah's brake requirements will allow Mclaren to run the Barcelona brake duct spec?

I seem to remember them going on at Barcelona about how everything was correlating nicely. It would be very nice to see them be able to run in the intended configuration. It would give us fans a real idea of how far off the rails they really are.
Doubtful… Even though the Jeddah track may require less from the brakes, temperatures will be similar to Bahrain, it’s very unlikely that they will be able to use the brake solution that they used in Spain.
Air temperatures are fairly irrelevant when brake temps reach 1,000 deg. What's more important is the braking demands, which were high at Bahrain.

SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
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Joined: 10 Mar 2019, 03:54

Re: McLaren MCL36

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CIZUK wrote:
22 Mar 2022, 01:52
SmallSoldier wrote:
21 Mar 2022, 21:23
A.J.O wrote:
21 Mar 2022, 20:08
Any chance Jeddah's brake requirements will allow Mclaren to run the Barcelona brake duct spec?

I seem to remember them going on at Barcelona about how everything was correlating nicely. It would be very nice to see them be able to run in the intended configuration. It would give us fans a real idea of how far off the rails they really are.
Doubtful… Even though the Jeddah track may require less from the brakes, temperatures will be similar to Bahrain, it’s very unlikely that they will be able to use the brake solution that they used in Spain.
Air temperatures are fairly irrelevant when brake temps reach 1,000 deg. What's more important is the braking demands, which were high at Bahrain.
I don’t know how much air temps could have an effect on F1 brakes, but the fact that they didn’t faced these issues while in Barcelona and did when in Bahrain would infer that track temperature does have an effect… It has not only affected McLaren, the RB18 was also suffering from overheating brakes for most of the race and several other drivers were asked to lift and coast to bring temperatures down.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: McLaren MCL36

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SmallSoldier wrote:
22 Mar 2022, 03:05
CIZUK wrote:
22 Mar 2022, 01:52
SmallSoldier wrote:
21 Mar 2022, 21:23


Doubtful… Even though the Jeddah track may require less from the brakes, temperatures will be similar to Bahrain, it’s very unlikely that they will be able to use the brake solution that they used in Spain.
Air temperatures are fairly irrelevant when brake temps reach 1,000 deg. What's more important is the braking demands, which were high at Bahrain.
I don’t know how much air temps could have an effect on F1 brakes, but the fact that they didn’t faced these issues while in Barcelona and did when in Bahrain would infer that track temperature does have an effect… It has not only affected McLaren, the RB18 was also suffering from overheating brakes for most of the race and several other drivers were asked to lift and coast to bring temperatures down.
It might be due to the higher braking demands of Bahrain? Bahrain is more of a stop and go circuit.

The amount of heat rejection from the brakes has a component which is proportional to the temperature gradient. If the T_high is 1000 deg and T_low is 20-40C, then you can see how this temperature gradient parameter is relatively constant and the rest of the cooling power depends on the thermal conductivity at the interior surfaces of the rotor and convection/mass flow. The amount of heat rejected should not vary too much based on air/track temperature.

It should depend much more on mass flow and the amount of heat being dumped into the brakes by way of track layout. If the average cooling power (I say average because it's speed dependent) and the average braking power are mismatched, then the brakes will get cooked over time.
A lion must kill its prey.

SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
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Joined: 10 Mar 2019, 03:54

Re: McLaren MCL36

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AR3-GP wrote:
22 Mar 2022, 04:02
SmallSoldier wrote:
22 Mar 2022, 03:05
CIZUK wrote:
22 Mar 2022, 01:52


Air temperatures are fairly irrelevant when brake temps reach 1,000 deg. What's more important is the braking demands, which were high at Bahrain.
I don’t know how much air temps could have an effect on F1 brakes, but the fact that they didn’t faced these issues while in Barcelona and did when in Bahrain would infer that track temperature does have an effect… It has not only affected McLaren, the RB18 was also suffering from overheating brakes for most of the race and several other drivers were asked to lift and coast to bring temperatures down.
It might be due to the higher braking demands of Bahrain? Bahrain is more of a stop and go circuit.

The amount of heat rejection from the brakes has a component which is proportional to the temperature gradient. If the T_high is 1000 deg and T_low is 20-40C, then you can see how this temperature gradient parameter is relatively constant and the rest of the cooling power depends on the thermal conductivity at the interior surfaces of the rotor and convection/mass flow. The amount of heat rejected should not vary too much based on air/track temperature.

It should depend much more on mass flow and the amount of heat being dumped into the brakes by way of track layout. If the average cooling power (I say average because it's speed dependent) and the average braking power are mismatched, then the brakes will get cooked over time.
Thanks! Makes sense!

NiyolHuayra
NiyolHuayra
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Joined: 19 Feb 2019, 09:40

Re: McLaren MCL36

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Lando on the issues of the MCL36


Emag
Emag
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Joined: 11 Feb 2019, 14:56

Re: McLaren MCL36

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With a lack of reference you obviously have to find your own and hope it's enough. It seems McLaren might have underestimated the amount of downforce the other teams could get.

At least that's what I think has happened. If their reference point was higher, they would have known they were down on that threshold the moment they hit the track in Barcelona.

Since no negative vibes/messages came from the team then, it hints towards them being happy with what they had.

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diffuser
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Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: McLaren MCL36

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There are many heavy braking circuits. Basically any rear limited track is a heavy breaking track.

rgimblett
rgimblett
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Joined: 13 Jul 2020, 09:07

Re: McLaren MCL36

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Emag wrote:
22 Mar 2022, 14:10
With a lack of reference you obviously have to find your own and hope it's enough. It seems McLaren might have underestimated the amount of downforce the other teams could get.

At least that's what I think has happened. If their reference point was higher, they would have known they were down on that threshold the moment they hit the track in Barcelona.

Since no negative vibes/messages came from the team then, it hints towards them being happy with what they had.
It's the classic F1 whinge though isn't it "not enough downforce..." like more downforce solves everything....
Seemed like they also lacked traction out of slow speed corners which could be any number of things, mechanical setup, engine, keeping tyres in temp window etc.. Basically an egg of their faces start to the season when I also go the vibes things were looking good, like close to Ferrari good.

CjC
CjC
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Joined: 03 Jul 2012, 20:13

Re: McLaren MCL36

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Sorry guys but more brake talk :roll:

James Key
"You think: 'well what the hell's going on there?' So you research it and you realise there's a certain condition, which was shown by this circuit, where it just sort of switched off basically internally."

I’m very interested to see how a duct can switch itself off internally

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mclar ... -/9217779/
Just a fan's point of view

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Peter Piper
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Joined: 15 May 2013, 20:01

Re: McLaren MCL36

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CjC wrote:
22 Mar 2022, 20:37
Sorry guys but more brake talk :roll:

James Key
"You think: 'well what the hell's going on there?' So you research it and you realise there's a certain condition, which was shown by this circuit, where it just sort of switched off basically internally."

I’m very interested to see how a duct can switch itself off internally

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mclar ... -/9217779/
I believe he/someone said that the airflow was stalling inside the duct. I'll look for the quote.

PhillipM
PhillipM
386
Joined: 16 May 2011, 15:18
Location: Over the road from Boothy...

Re: McLaren MCL36

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Tighter corners basically flipping a fluidic switch and them not cooling till the car comes back up to enough speed maybe? Or even tyres flexing differently to expected.

SmallSoldier
SmallSoldier
479
Joined: 10 Mar 2019, 03:54

Re: McLaren MCL36

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CjC wrote:
22 Mar 2022, 20:37
Sorry guys but more brake talk :roll:

James Key
"You think: 'well what the hell's going on there?' So you research it and you realise there's a certain condition, which was shown by this circuit, where it just sort of switched off basically internally."

I’m very interested to see how a duct can switch itself off internally

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/mclar ... -/9217779/
That’s interesting… It seems that somehow the flow inside the ducts is choked up and therefore they stop cooling the brakes, therefore the overheating.

JPower
JPower
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Joined: 23 Feb 2021, 05:06

Re: McLaren MCL36

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Good video by BSport examining McLaren's aero issues. One thing I've learned from him is that splashing the car with tons of flowviz usually points to correlation issues. When I saw Lando's car in FP3 that raised some alarm bells.