Dutch news paper reports both Red Bull and FIA reporting the DNF not to be related to the fuel pump:
https://www.telegraaf.nl/sport/58556469 ... enzinepomp
I was talking to a lad from another garage today as he popped in. Apparently issues like that were really common back in the day but its been a long time since hes seen it. To do with how the tyre has too much grip to the road surface and the arc of the suspension travel as the weight is put back onto it.vorticism wrote: ↑21 Mar 2022, 18:42Some are saying fuel pumps but not which one, some say the AT was MGUK, some say it was oil pumps, some say it was battery related, some say the track rod was bent.
How does one bend a track rod during a pit stop? The jack is nowhere near it. Maybe the wheel was turned while they dropped it? Although that seems low energy compared to riding curbs with several hundred lbs of downforce on the wheel. Bending implies a metal part was damaged, not the CF spar.
That makes sense now that you explain it. If the wheels toe in or out with droop then maybe something binds up during the fall. Over the radio VES was saying the steering force was higher in both directions and was also inconsistent, fwiw.chrisc90 wrote: ↑21 Mar 2022, 20:38I was talking to a lad from another garage today as he popped in. Apparently issues like that were really common back in the day but its been a long time since hes seen it. To do with how the tyre has too much grip to the road surface and the arc of the suspension travel as the weight is put back onto it.
(for example, jack your car up, and watch what the wheel does as it goes up, and importantly back down. The bottom edge of the tyre will be pulled 'under' as the tyre cant slip on the floor)
Apparently teams used to tile or paint the floor which allowed the tyre to slip as the weight of the car dropped back on. Ive never seen or heard of it, but hes been following motorsport and working on escort rally cars etc for over 50years
Indeed, and even if they weren’t, plastic deformation would cause a catastrophic failure of the steering. Not something that you would want to corner with at alldans79 wrote: ↑21 Mar 2022, 19:07Aren't they carbon fiber with Metal ends though?
the lower wishbone describes an arc as it moves up or down. This is probably more pronounced on vehicles with McPherson struts at an angle, as escorts often were (and crossbraced at the turret)chrisc90 wrote: ↑21 Mar 2022, 20:38I was talking to a lad from another garage today as he popped in. Apparently issues like that were really common back in the day but its been a long time since hes seen it. To do with how the tyre has too much grip to the road surface and the arc of the suspension travel as the weight is put back onto it.vorticism wrote: ↑21 Mar 2022, 18:42Some are saying fuel pumps but not which one, some say the AT was MGUK, some say it was oil pumps, some say it was battery related, some say the track rod was bent.
How does one bend a track rod during a pit stop? The jack is nowhere near it. Maybe the wheel was turned while they dropped it? Although that seems low energy compared to riding curbs with several hundred lbs of downforce on the wheel. Bending implies a metal part was damaged, not the CF spar.
(for example, jack your car up, and watch what the wheel does as it goes up, and importantly back down. The bottom edge of the tyre will be pulled 'under' as the tyre cant slip on the floor)
Apparently teams used to tile or paint the floor which allowed the tyre to slip as the weight of the car dropped back on. Ive never seen or heard of it, but hes been following motorsport and working on escort rally cars etc for over 50years
The track rods wouldn’t see anything like the force that they do during cornering, I don’t recall seeing him hit anything (which would cause bending).Big Tea wrote: ↑21 Mar 2022, 21:57the lower wishbone describes an arc as it moves up or down. This is probably more pronounced on vehicles with McPherson struts at an angle, as escorts often were (and crossbraced at the turret)chrisc90 wrote: ↑21 Mar 2022, 20:38I was talking to a lad from another garage today as he popped in. Apparently issues like that were really common back in the day but its been a long time since hes seen it. To do with how the tyre has too much grip to the road surface and the arc of the suspension travel as the weight is put back onto it.vorticism wrote: ↑21 Mar 2022, 18:42Some are saying fuel pumps but not which one, some say the AT was MGUK, some say it was oil pumps, some say it was battery related, some say the track rod was bent.
How does one bend a track rod during a pit stop? The jack is nowhere near it. Maybe the wheel was turned while they dropped it? Although that seems low energy compared to riding curbs with several hundred lbs of downforce on the wheel. Bending implies a metal part was damaged, not the CF spar.
(for example, jack your car up, and watch what the wheel does as it goes up, and importantly back down. The bottom edge of the tyre will be pulled 'under' as the tyre cant slip on the floor)
Apparently teams used to tile or paint the floor which allowed the tyre to slip as the weight of the car dropped back on. Ive never seen or heard of it, but hes been following motorsport and working on escort rally cars etc for over 50years
Maybe the forces are different when the car is in motion? A bit like the good old Non power steering cars we drive....Much harder to turn the wheel stationary than when the car was in motion.Stu wrote: ↑21 Mar 2022, 22:00The track rods wouldn’t see anything like the force that they do during cornering, I don’t recall seeing him hit anything (which would cause bending).Big Tea wrote: ↑21 Mar 2022, 21:57the lower wishbone describes an arc as it moves up or down. This is probably more pronounced on vehicles with McPherson struts at an angle, as escorts often were (and crossbraced at the turret)chrisc90 wrote: ↑21 Mar 2022, 20:38
I was talking to a lad from another garage today as he popped in. Apparently issues like that were really common back in the day but its been a long time since hes seen it. To do with how the tyre has too much grip to the road surface and the arc of the suspension travel as the weight is put back onto it.
(for example, jack your car up, and watch what the wheel does as it goes up, and importantly back down. The bottom edge of the tyre will be pulled 'under' as the tyre cant slip on the floor)
Apparently teams used to tile or paint the floor which allowed the tyre to slip as the weight of the car dropped back on. Ive never seen or heard of it, but hes been following motorsport and working on escort rally cars etc for over 50years
That would load up the lower wishbone, not the steering arm. And the forces are still an order of magnitude lower than the car would see in motion.
That's what I an saying. The movement is in the geometry, it goes back to its neutral position when the suspension is in its rightful position. Its not a problem.Stu wrote: ↑21 Mar 2022, 22:00The track rods wouldn’t see anything like the force that they do during cornering, I don’t recall seeing him hit anything (which would cause bending).Big Tea wrote: ↑21 Mar 2022, 21:57the lower wishbone describes an arc as it moves up or down. This is probably more pronounced on vehicles with McPherson struts at an angle, as escorts often were (and crossbraced at the turret)chrisc90 wrote: ↑21 Mar 2022, 20:38
I was talking to a lad from another garage today as he popped in. Apparently issues like that were really common back in the day but its been a long time since hes seen it. To do with how the tyre has too much grip to the road surface and the arc of the suspension travel as the weight is put back onto it.
(for example, jack your car up, and watch what the wheel does as it goes up, and importantly back down. The bottom edge of the tyre will be pulled 'under' as the tyre cant slip on the floor)
Apparently teams used to tile or paint the floor which allowed the tyre to slip as the weight of the car dropped back on. Ive never seen or heard of it, but hes been following motorsport and working on escort rally cars etc for over 50years
Well yeah add damper in jack mechanism is maybe quick fix.